Jihadists cut down 150-year-old oak in Syria, accuse locals of worshipping it.
40 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;42977771]The Christians/Catholics had quite an issue with this too. They regularly torched art and literature that was deemed nonreligious, because the church found art for the sake of art sacrilegious. They believed that art should depict religious scenes and characters only, and took quite a nasty stance against material that didn't. Many artists from this time period who were commissioned to art pieces even incorporated secret codes and imagery in rebellion against the church's oppressive stance on the subject.
Michelangelo is especially famous for putting "Easter eggs" in his commissioned work. His art in the Sistine Chapel is flooded with criticisms and hidden messages, such as the famous realization that [I]The Creation of Adam[/I] has God floating inside a human brain, leading many to speculate that Michelangelo was implying that God is a figment of the imagination. Images of the Pope and other religious figures even has cherubs giving them subtle hand gestures that are the period equivalent of the middle finger, which was apparently his sneaky way of telling the Church that it could fuck right off with that shit.
Other artists were even sneakier, painting elaborate scenes that could only be seen if viewed from a specific angle. Where looking at a painting head on might show a stirring religious scene, having just the right perspective of it would reveal debauchery and sin and corruption.
It's pretty interesting stuff![/QUOTE]
The only reason Michelangelo only did work for the Pope anyway because that's where the money was, apparently
[QUOTE=Reshy;42977496]They have to make a pilgrimage to it at least once in their life. How is that not worshiping it?[/QUOTE]
Ironically it was originally a place where Pagan idols were gathered. The cities sole source of income was pilgrimages and the local leaders thought Mohammed was threatening that income.
Turned out pretty great in the end.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;42977771]The Christians/Catholics had quite an issue with this too. They regularly torched art and literature that was deemed nonreligious, because the church found art for the sake of art sacrilegious. They believed that art should depict religious scenes and characters only, and took quite a nasty stance against material that didn't. Many artists from this time period who were commissioned to art pieces even incorporated secret codes and imagery in rebellion against the church's oppressive stance on the subject.
Michelangelo is especially famous for putting "Easter eggs" in his commissioned work. His art in the Sistine Chapel is flooded with criticisms and hidden messages, such as the famous realization that [I]The Creation of Adam[/I] has God floating inside a human brain, leading many to speculate that Michelangelo was implying that God is a figment of the imagination. Images of the Pope and other religious figures even has cherubs giving them subtle hand gestures that are the period equivalent of the middle finger, which was apparently his sneaky way of telling the Church that it could fuck right off with that shit.
Other artists were even sneakier, painting elaborate scenes that could only be seen if viewed from a specific angle. Where looking at a painting head on might show a stirring religious scene, having just the right perspective of it would reveal debauchery and sin and corruption.
It's pretty interesting stuff![/QUOTE]
He also made sure to put his depiction of hell in the same area that the pope would sit during mass.
why does islam have to destroy everything ?
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42975334]Given that it's an object which is considered holy, I don't think that's a contradiction. Worshiping/idolising the Kabba is just an extension of worshiping Allah.
The same can't be said of a tree.[/QUOTE]
I would disagree.
Because isn't Allah the creator of the Earth and all things that are divine? Didn't he create the heavens and the Earth? So then shouldn't an extension of his being and power, in this case a 150 year old tree which has existed LONG before any of the men who cut it down, be revered and treasured as a symbol of the ever lasting existence and power of Allah? The one whom brought that very tree into existence?
No, it was small mindedness and uneducated foolery which cut the tree down.
On that same note and the exact opposite stance, why was it brought up to be a big deal anyways? Seems to me, the wisest thing would have been to laugh it off and remind the people of entirely what I just mentioned; of why the tree is special. Because of its relation to Allah.
That way the people are educated, it's still kosher worship (:v:), and the tree gets to live and keep on doing its tree thing.
I read up the Saudi government destroyed some other religious-historical sites surrounding and in mecca where other holy people went because they didn't want them becoming shrines of their own.
They're still pissed about that fruit?
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;42975334]Given that it's an object which is considered holy, I don't think that's a contradiction. Worshiping/idolising the Kabba is just an extension of worshiping Allah.
The same can't be said of a tree.[/QUOTE]
Allah is god, god made the tree, he breathed life into it, and if we believe in his omnipotence, he placed the tree. the tree, like all of nature and life would be an extension of god.
[editline]25th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Laputa;42977980]The only reason Michelangelo only did work for the Pope anyway because that's where the money was, apparently[/QUOTE]
Most artists at the time with the technical skill to work for anyone, worked for where the money was. Most often the money was at the catholic church and if you have ever toured/studied europe, catholic churches are always ritzy, huge places decorated to the tits with beautiful art.
They worked for where the money was.
[QUOTE=Keys;42979918]I would disagree.
Because isn't Allah the creator of the Earth and all things that are divine? Didn't he create the heavens and the Earth? So then shouldn't an extension of his being and power, in this case a 150 year old tree which has existed LONG before any of the men who cut it down, be revered and treasured as a symbol of the ever lasting existence and power of Allah? The one whom brought that very tree into existence?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Matrix374;42977530]but technically,a tree is the direct creation made by Allah while the Ka'abah is a brickhouse made by Abraham or Solomon or some other guy.
So logically idolising a tree makes you much more closer to god than the Ka'abah[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42980954]Allah is god, god made the tree, he breathed life into it, and if we believe in his omnipotence, he placed the tree. the tree, like all of nature and life would be an extension of god.[/QUOTE]
These things rarely work by what was directly made by who. The Kabbah was stated to be holy, the tree was not.
I can see where this logic is coming from, but it doesn't appear to be the logic that actual muslims prescribe to. If they worshipped literally everything because it has come directly from Allah, they wouldn't have the Kabbah in the first place. It serves as a focal point for the religion, and therefore takes priority over anything else.
The tree isn't perceived as having come directly from Allah, it's just another tree. The Kabbah is seen as incredibly important because its building was ordered directly by Allah.
Let's send a message to Al Qaeda's complaint department about how their tree cutting offends us.
[QUOTE=Matrix374;42977530]but technically,a tree is the direct creation made by Allah while the Ka'abah is a brickhouse made by Abraham or Solomon or some other guy.
So logically idolising a tree makes you much more closer to god than the Ka'abah[/QUOTE]
This is a Christian-approach to Muslim theology. The idea of Tawhid is specifically about the oneness of God and his absolute uniqueness above all else in existence because he was the creator of all things. If you worship a tree you aren't worshiping his creation and thus God indirectly, you are just worshiping a tree which undermines God's uniqueness and thus turning it into an idol.
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