Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz to debate Obamacare at CNN town hall tonight at 9 PM ET - Polidicks

People laughing when Ted said he would be brief is my aesthetic

did he just compare healthcare to giving everyone a lamborghini wtf???

[QUOTE=.Isak.;51792319]That's a hugely oversimplified definition of a "right." Human rights language goes way beyond that - a major part of the International Bill of Human Rights is the ICESCR, which outlines economic, social, and cultural rights - all of which are about [I]positive[/I] rights to certain things, like clean water, housing, healthcare, etc. Voting rights are a form of political rights. Is that "freedom of protection from others?" No, it's a service provided by the government. You have a right to vote, and it is the [I]government's responsibility[/I] to provide services to allow you to vote. If the government didn't establish polling stations, didn't do any kind of measurement of ballots, your right to vote would be threatened. Human rights go far beyond "protections from others." Do you have a right to clean water? That's a service that must be provided, not a protection from others.[/QUOTE] Then I and the founding fathers disagree. Also voting is specifically protected by the consitution so it isn't really a good comparison to a right to healthcare. [QUOTE=Cows Rule;51792328]So why shouldn't people be protected from health insurance companies being able to charge well beyond their means?[/QUOTE] I dont think its the job of the government to dictate prices. And btw, Obamacare certainly didnt help with this (it made premiums a lot worse). [QUOTE=Aldawolf;51792327]Is it fair that I have to pay hundreds a month that others don't have to because I was born with a mental illness that I can't help?[/QUOTE] Yes

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792360] Yes[/QUOTE] Wow.

The Constitution is a living document, designed to be [I]Amended.[/I] It's 2017. Clean water, air, an education, and healthcare should be constitutional rights. Let's amend it in.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;51792342]You're [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_health"]patently incorrect[/URL]. It's a different subsection of human rights than we're used to seeing in America, but it's a major section of human rights dialogue. Just read the [URL="http://www.fmreview.org/sites/fmr/files/FMRdownloads/en/FMRpdfs/Human-Rights/udhr.pdf"]UDHR[/URL], basically the central pillar of human rights dialogue, and tell me that rights are just "protections from others." It explicitly brings up social services in Article 25. There's debate, sure, but you're presenting this as if rights are [I]exclusively[/I] "protections from others" when you couldn't be more wrong.[/QUOTE] You linked a bunch of documents that said it was a right, but its not recognized as a right in the united states so I fail to see your point.

This guy is extremely nervous...Sweating through his suit jacket.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51792368]Wow.[/QUOTE] Is it fair that I pay for his illness?

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792375]Is it fair that I pay for his illness?[/QUOTE] You pay for socialised services like police, fire, etc. [editline]7th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=toaster468;51792371]You linked a bunch of documents that said it was a right, but its not recognized as a right in the united states so I fail to see your point.[/QUOTE] That's quite literally the debate. It's a right everywhere in the industrialized world, and without health care as a right, we suffer.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792371]You linked a bunch of documents that said it was a right, but its not recognized as a right in the united states so I fail to see your point.[/QUOTE] Which really is just an indication of how outdated and stuck our constitution has become when it isn't supposed to let that happen.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792360]I dont think its the job of the government to dictate prices. And btw, Obamacare certainly didnt help with this (it made premiums a lot worse). [/QUOTE] So then how do you feel about people who can't afford health insurance, with or without ACA? Does the blame lie on them for being too poor, or are the companies charging too much?

I do agree that some deregulation of the FDA would be good (especially with drugs and treatments approved in other countries with quality healthcare) but I don't see how that at all helps with the pharmaceutical industry trying to screw people and private insurance being unaffordable to people for the drugs and treatments they need bc of a myriad of reasons the insurance companies dictate

Fuck paying for emergency services amirite. That's so stupid lol.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51792394]Fuck paying for emergency services amirite. That's so stupid lol.[/QUOTE] You don't have the right to call the police if someone steals your property!

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792375]Is it fair that I pay for his illness?[/QUOTE] If you had this logic with everything then you wouldn't be for tap water, roads, fire dept., or even police among other things. You not only pay for a host of many other things currently that others use, but you use as well. Many things that are free and you take for granted are paid for by OTHER people. If the system didn't work this way, whenever you call the police or fire dept. you'd have to pay thousands regardless if there was an issue or not.

I love how civil this debate is.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51792378]You pay for socialised services like police, fire, etc. [/QUOTE] One of the few roles of government which are basically universally accepted is protecting safety and order, so that's not really an argument.

I really don't understand his point on government barriers with the FDA and regulating the pharmaceutical companies there's way too much dissonance here, doesn't even feel like they're on the same page lol

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792407]One of the few roles of government which are basically universally accepted is protecting safety and order, so that's not really an argument.[/QUOTE] Do you not like Medicare? Social security? They are social safety nets, just like the police, fire, etc.

[QUOTE=Xubs;51792410]is healthcare not a form of safety[/QUOTE] Safety as in someone coming to kill me

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792371]You linked a bunch of documents that said it was a right, but its not recognized as a right in the united states so I fail to see your point.[/QUOTE] The point of human rights is that they're rights that all humans inherently deserve. It's a universal declaration of human rights, not "the rights of some citizens of some states somewhere in the world, sometimes." That doesn't mean that they automatically get those rights. There's a right to freedom of speech, yet dictators will suppress that. There's a right to clean water, yet many, many people don't have access to that resource. Again, the US doesn't typically try to guarantee these kinds of rights to their citizens. The New Deal era is a distinct example of where they did try to do that - hence social security and "entitlements" that all citizens have a right to enjoy. Most of our Constitution is "protections," you're right, but just look at the Sixth Amendment - "the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial." Doesn't sound like a "protection from others" to me, it sounds like that right is a [I]service[/I] that the government necessarily has to [I]provide[/I] through the judiciary.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792375]Is it fair that I pay for his illness?[/QUOTE] she*, and is it fair I pay for your roads? I don't use the roads in your city. Why should I pay for them?

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51792417]Do you not like Medicare? Social security? They are social safety nets, just like the police, fire, etc.[/QUOTE] Both of them are basically money pits. I have no expectation of social security checks in my old age, it's running on fumes right now.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792419]Safety as in someone coming to kill me[/QUOTE] What if an illness is, in a way, killing you?

Did anyone see that wild camera activity

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792419]Safety as in someone coming to kill me[/QUOTE] The universe is in a constant state of attempting to kill us. See radiation, illnesses, bacteria. Thanks for proving the point.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792407]One of the few roles of government which are basically universally accepted is protecting safety and order, so that's not really an argument.[/QUOTE] Safety is compromised by failure to provide adequate healthcare. Leads to the spread of disease, decline in social structures that the country depends on, reduces workplace efficiency. Basically everything goes to shit as healthcare goes to shit.

Nice zoom.

Ignore toaster, he's a retarded self-confessed gay troll. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("shitpost/flaming smh sweb" - OvB))[/highlight] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost / flaming - Should know better" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

Civilization as we know it would simply not exist if we didnt have any type of socialistic systems.