Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz to debate Obamacare at CNN town hall tonight at 9 PM ET - Polidicks

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792419]Safety as in someone coming to kill me[/QUOTE] I know it may be hard to understand for someone who doesnt have serious illness or who knows someone who does, but its quite arrogant to brush off sickness. people never asked for their genetic defects, their autoimmune disorders, their cancer, yet those illnesses are there to kill them. is that somehow exempt?

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792407]One of the few roles of government which are basically universally accepted is protecting safety and order, so that's not really an argument.[/QUOTE] Is health not included in safety? It may be argued, that society is unsafe with mentally ill people being untreated, and may cause disorder. It is not safe to walk around with a brain tumor, it's not safe to walk around with a severed finger. [QUOTE=toaster468;51792419]Safety as in someone coming to kill me[/QUOTE] I stand corrected, the brain tumors are ok guys.

[QUOTE=person11;51792434]Did anyone see that wild camera activity[/QUOTE] right when he busted out the receipts to clap back at cruz it was so well timed lol

What a surprise CNN cutting off Bernie and feeding corporate-shill talking points to corporate shill Ted Cruz.

[QUOTE=Erfly;51792404]I love how civil this debate is.[/QUOTE] In the good timeline, this debate would have been a fun little circus show between Hillary and Trump as we feel relatively comfortable with our lives.

"Over 95% of middle class working Americans would benef--" "Sorry, it's time to take a commercial break."

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792419]Safety as in someone coming to kill me[/QUOTE] I guess automobile safety regulations are a load of crap then?

[QUOTE=WoodenSpoon;51792459]"Over 95% of middle class working Americans would benef--" "Sorry, it's time to take a commercial break."[/QUOTE] Had flashbacks to the primary debates...

I guess CNN still didnt learn

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792419]Safety as in someone coming to kill me[/QUOTE] What if someone poisons your drink? There's clearly someone trying to kill you, but if you call the police you're still dead. Also: [QUOTE=toaster468;51792407]One of the few roles of government which are basically universally accepted is protecting safety and order, so that's not really an argument.[/QUOTE] Disease disrupts order and cripples a society. How is adequate healthcare not establishing order?

Let's listen to the language right now with these two politicians. Bernie has been hopeful, "Yes we can", we can do better Cruz has been "No we can't".

[QUOTE=Cows Rule;51792452]I stand corrected, the brain tumors are ok guys.[/QUOTE] Strawman. Murder is illegal, brain tumors aren't. That is because the founder fathers said people have a right to life and someone else infringing on that right of another person (read: murder) is against the law and our founding ideas. The right to life was not understood to mean demanding healthcare from others.

Cruz relating universal health care/ACA to SNL's "More Cowbell" skit. What in the fuck.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51792481]Cruz relating universal health care/ACA to SNL's "More Cowbell" skit. What in the fuck.[/QUOTE] Shit guys, he said the meme magic words. I guess healthcare is done.

-snip-

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792480]Strawman. Murder is illegal, brain tumors aren't. That is because the founder fathers said people have a right to life and someone else infringing on that right of another person (read: murder) is against the law and our founding ideas. The right to life was not understood to mean demanding healthcare from others.[/QUOTE] so we should abolish fire departments I mean that directly follows the logic you're laying out here, you realize that, right

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792407]One of the few roles of government which are basically universally accepted is protecting safety and order, so that's not really an argument.[/QUOTE] I agree. I've had the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution memorized since I was young. [quote=The Constitution][B]We the People[/B], in order to form a [B]more perfect union[/B], establish justice, ensure domestic [B]tranquility[/B], provide for the [B]common defense[/B], promote the [B]general [I]welfare[/I][/B], and secure the blessings of [B]liberty[/B], to ourselves and our [B]posterity[/B], do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.[/quote] I think the founding fathers, if thrust into this modern world, would want us to spend our immense wealth on defending our fellow citizens with a military, establishing justice for everyone of all races, religions, etc, etc, etc, providing for the welfare of our poor and needy, ensuring domestic tranquility through minimizing crime through programs designed to rehabilitate instead punish, and giving [B]all[/B] Americans the liberty to live a life without having to worry about dying form a preventable disease. The founding fathers existed in the 1700s. They were very wise and smart for their generation. If brought to this world, they would look at the issues, and adjust the Constitution to fit what is [I]right for now.[/I] The Constitution was right for 1787. It was designed to be living, to be amended, so that it could [I]change with the times,[/I] to secure the blessings of liberty to the posterity.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51792481]Cruz relating universal health care/ACA to SNL's "More Cowbell" skit. What in the fuck.[/QUOTE] To be fair it was a good comparison

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51792493]so we should abolish fire departments I mean that directly follows the logic you're laying out here, you realize that, right[/QUOTE] This was already answered

[QUOTE=OvB;51792494]I agree. I've had the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution memorized since I was young. I think the founding fathers, if thrust into this modern world, would want us to spend our immense wealth on defending our fellow citizens with a military, establishing justice for everyone of all races, religions, etc, etc, etc, providing for the welfare of our poor and needy, ensuring domestic tranquility through minimizing crime through programs designed to rehabilitate instead punish, and giving [B]all[/B] Americans the liberty to live a life without having to worry about dying form a preventable disease. The founding fathers existed in the 1700s. They were very wise and smart for their generation. If brought to this world, they would look at the issues, and adjust the Constitution to fit what is [I]right for now.[/I] The Constitution was right for 1787. It was designed to be living, to be amended, so that it could [I]change with the times,[/I] to secure the blessings of liberty to the posterity.[/QUOTE] This was said so eloquently. [editline]7th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=tigerman4111;51792495]To be fair it was a good comparison[/QUOTE] Yet it turned out to be the best part of "Don't fear the reaper"?

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792496]This was already answered[/QUOTE] No it wasn't. You just arbitrarily designated fire departments "something that protects order and safety" and healthcare "something that doesn't protect order and safety". It still directly contradicts your ideology.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792480]Strawman. Murder is illegal, brain tumors aren't. That is because the founder fathers said people have a right to life and someone else infringing on that right of another person (read: murder) is against the law and our founding ideas. The right to life was not understood to mean demanding healthcare from others.[/QUOTE] obstructing healthcare is infringing on that right

Saw this perfect comment on Reddit that sums up these ideologies. [quote] Cruz: Me and my family suffered, so everyone should too. Sanders: Me and my family suffered, so nobody else should. [/quote] [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5spr6g/sanders_and_cruz_cnn_town_hall_debate_discussion/ddh0lbg/[/url]

[QUOTE=OvB;51792494]I agree. I've had the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution memorized since I was young. I think the founding fathers, if thrust into this modern world, would want us to spend our immense wealth on defending our fellow citizens with a military, establishing justice for everyone of all races, religions, etc, etc, etc, providing for the welfare of our poor and needy, ensuring domestic tranquility through minimizing crime through programs designed to rehabilitate instead punish, and giving [B]all[/B] Americans the liberty to live a life without having to worry about dying form a preventable disease. The founding fathers existed in the 1700s. They were very wise and smart for their generation. If brought to this world, they would look at the issues, and adjust the Constitution to fit what is [I]right for now.[/I] The Constitution was right for 1787. It was designed to be living, to be amended, so that it could [I]change with the times,[/I] to secure the blessings of liberty to the posterity.[/QUOTE] I disagree because I think it's obvious they valued personal liberty more than the benefits of the collective. They had the idea of a small government, which is why our system was designed in the decentralized way it still is today.

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792518]I disagree because I think it's obvious they valued personal liberty more than the benefits of the collective. They had the idea of a small government, which is why our system was designed in the decentralized way it still is today.[/QUOTE] You still have personal liberty despite paying into things that benefit the whole. I'm saying that if the founding fathers were thrust into a world where paying into education and health was an idea in practice, they would probably look into it. The concept of big government back then was literally Monarchy.

This stream ran like ass, I hope it gets reuploaded tomorrow

[QUOTE=OvB;51792546]You still have personal liberty despite paying into things that benefit the whole. I'm saying that if the founding fathers were thrust into a world where paying into education and health was an idea in practice, they would probably look into it. The concept of big government back then was literally Monarchy.[/QUOTE] Especially with many of the founding fathers having been contacts with many European powers. They'd see what Europe has with socialized medicine and think we were crazy not having it.

[QUOTE=OvB;51792546]You still have personal liberty despite paying into things that benefit the whole. I'm saying that if the founding fathers were thrust into a world where paying into education and health was an idea in practice, they would probably look into it. The concept of big government back then was literally Monarchy.[/QUOTE] Maybe, but at the same time there is no right for food and shelter in the constitution and the human need for those two have been constant forever. [QUOTE=Llamaguy;51792559]Especially with many of the founding fathers having been contacts with many European powers. They'd see what Europe has with socialized medicine and think we were crazy not having it.[/QUOTE] What gave you that idea?

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792306]So you finally agree that he answered the question? [editline]7th February 2017[/editline] You don't have a right to a lamborghini. Just like you don't have a right to the internet. Because rights aren't about taking things, it's about protecting the individual. That's why you buy healthcare. I'm glad you said cancer because there were cheap plans with high deductibles which were affordable, before the ACA[/QUOTE] Hey just to jump in here but he actually does have a right to the internet since that is now a basic human right

[QUOTE=toaster468;51792566]Maybe, but at the same time there is no right for food and shelter in the constitution and the human need for those two have been constant forever. What gave you that idea?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.philosophybasics.com/philosophers_voltaire.html[/url] Separation of Church and State perhaps from a French philosopher?