• Food project proposes Matrix-style vertical chicken farms
    256 replies, posted
I don't know how I feel of this. I'm horrified but I can also fully understand why they want to do this and why it's a better alternative
[QUOTE=Sanius;34720111]people eat too much. there are too many fast food restaurants and super-markets[/QUOTE] And isn't that their choice to do so? Granted it isn't smart nor very healthy... But you can't tell people what to eat and what not to eat, and how much of it. Sure you could try to start something to try and tell people these things, but that rarely changes much at all, if anything. You are right, though. I'll give you that. But it's near impossible to change something like that. Are people gonna stop smoking because it's bad for them and the people around them just because a group tells them to? Are people gonna stop fighting each other in things from petty fights to full-blown war, just because a group tells them to? Are companies going to stop polluting, just because a group tells them to? No. The only way you could ever change something is to strike people in such an emotional way that they decide not to do it anymore. But even so that won't fix all of it. Like MLK Jr. Racism and discrimination still exists, and a lot of it.
[QUOTE=SuperDuperScoot;34720232]And isn't that their choice to do so? Granted it isn't smart nor very healthy... But you can't tell people what to eat and what not to eat, and how much of it. Sure you could try to start something to try and tell people these things, but that rarely changes much at all, if anything. You are right, though. I'll give you that. But it's near impossible to change something like that. Are people gonna stop smoking because it's bad for them and the people around them just because a group tells them to? Are people gonna stop fighting each other in things from petty fights to full-blown war, just because a group tells them to? Are companies going to stop polluting, just because a group tells them to? No.[/QUOTE] yes, people are idiots. that doesn't mean that people should attempt to meet their unrealistic needs
[QUOTE=Sanius;34720111]people eat too much. there are too many fast food restaurants and super-markets chicken and livestock in general should be treated as a delicacy because it is a limited resource. people need to look at other alternatives before playing god[/QUOTE] Why do we need to look at the alternatives before "playing god"? How is livestock a limited resource?
[QUOTE=Sanius;34720245]yes, people are idiots. that doesn't mean that people should attempt to meet their unrealistic needs[/QUOTE] No, they shouldn't attempt it, but they're happy doing so and tend not to change till they find out it's going to kill them very soon if they don't stop. Even so some still don't change. People will do what makes them happy, even sometimes if it's gonna kill 'em and that's just how the majority of humans work.
How the hell does the OP have so many winner ratings? I'm disgusted...
I agree with this as a logical thinker, and I'm usually in favor of progress. However I think that we're already so disconnected from where our food comes from that this is a bad thing. I don't think it's good for our culture.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;34720300]How the hell does the OP have so many winner ratings? I'm disgusted...[/QUOTE] Why are you disgusted? The chickens don't care. They can't care. They do not have the capacity to care what happens to them or other chickens around them. They literally want to fuck, breath, and lay eggs and they can't do anything else.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;34720325]Why are you disgusted? The chickens don't care. They can't care. They do not have the capacity to care what happens to them or other chickens around them. They literally want to fuck, breath, and lay eggs and they can't do anything else.[/QUOTE] Just because they don't have the capacity to care because of brain augmentation doesn't mean that I have to stop caring, too. They're living beings and the quality of life of those things is atrocious, and yes they are actually alive, despite most things we eat simply being seen as "resources". And our current form of livestock processing isn't ideal, either. But this, to me, is not the right way. At all.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;34712667]Oh PETA is just going to [U][B]LOVE[/B][/U] this.[/QUOTE] No they are to busy worrying about killing rats in videogames. But this idea seems better then what we have.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;34720395]Just because they don't have the capacity to care because of brain augmentation doesn't mean that I have to stop caring, too. They're living beings and the quality of life of those things is atrocious, and yes they are actually alive, despite most things we eat simply being seen as "resources". And our current form of livestock processing isn't ideal, either. But this, to me, is not the right way. At all.[/QUOTE] There is nothing wrong with being disgusted at this, there is something wrong with thinking that it is worse than what we do now.
[QUOTE=TheSporeGA;34720429]No they are to busy worrying about killing rats in videogames. But this idea seems better then what we have.[/QUOTE] you know what sounds even better? working to fix a society which strives on gross overindulgence rather than trying to fulfill it
[QUOTE=Sanius;34720450]you know what sounds even better? working to fix a society which strives on gross overindulgence rather than trying to fulfill it[/QUOTE] Out of curiosity, I would like to hear what kind of idea you have to try to do something like this. Trying to change the lifestyles of about 7 billion people, even 1/4th of that, would be incredibly difficult.
"Stop playing god" i bet they were saying that 10000 years ago when whatever chickens ancestors were being domesticated and selectively breed.
[QUOTE=ewitwins;34712556]Thats... Well that's rather cruel. [editline]15th February 2012[/editline] How can you even prove something like that?[/QUOTE] ...Observation? Animals don't think complex thoughts, their outward behavior is the best indicator of their mood. Cats and lizards hiss, dogs growl and bark, chickens scratch and peck. These are scientists, not imbeciles.
This is absolutely fucking grim.
[QUOTE=Sanius;34720111]people eat too much. there are too many fast food restaurants and super-markets chicken and livestock in general should be treated as a delicacy because it is a limited resource. people need to look at other alternatives before playing god[/QUOTE] I am sorry but fuck those who say we shouldn't play god. We live in an age where we can reach the stars, where our understanding of the universe can grow exponentially and be distributed within seconds across the world. I for one do not plan to sit on the ground because some Luddite is afraid of heights. Soap is a limited resource as well, we should only prepare it for the rich.
[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;34719911]Chickens' entire existence is devoted to feeding Humans. Without Humans, chickens would have never existed. They are crossbreads of other birds that we engineered to be mindless meatsacks. The same goes for cows, pigs, and most other livestock. I feel no remorse.[/QUOTE] lol what chickens are just domesticated red Junglefowl.
[QUOTE=SilentOpp;34712667]Oh PETA is just going to [U][B]LOVE[/B][/U] this.[/QUOTE] So what if they do have a problem with it? They have every right to take issue with the idea, it's pretty ethically iffy to remove an animal's perception of the world so it doesn't experience the bad parts.
To people asking how it's possible to remove the cortex and whatnot: The entire reason why a chicken can survive with its head lopped off is because the brain stem sits much lower than the rest of the brain. Chop off its head and (depending on where you chopped it) the brain stem could still be intact. Wouldn't take any complex operations or anything like that, just pop off the head and put in some feeding tubes. As long as the throat doesn't fill with blood (which it normally doesn't, chickens can tend live without their heads until they starve to death) it doesn't even need aid to breathe. Is it humane? Probably not. But it is [i]more humane[/i] than what is going on now. The bleeding hearts out there will never have their wishes fulfilled, you're incredibly naive if you think livestock and whatnot will ever live happy lives on wide open fields. As populations increase, so does the demand for food.
this kind of thing makes me want to go vegetarian. not the idea of the matrix-like system that is being proposed by Ford, but the fact that it would (supposedly) be more humane to have a thousands upon thousands of chickens mentally vegetablized, then packed together in a machine built for efficiency where they would spend their entire existence being force-fed until they end up on a dinner plate.
I'm completely against this. Here's why. While it may be possible to lobotomize chickens to be accomodated in such a rig, it'll require a surgically precise procedure that won't at all be cost-effective - Eventually farmers will stop using it and drug up the chickens instead - Not very healthy produce, I think. Worse, they'll probably just use the rigs with perfectly normal, lucid chickens in them. I'm going with instinct on this one.
i think if we realize we have a higher demand in meat, instead of finding better ways of harvesting we should be looking for ways to move away from it.
[QUOTE=archangel125;34722318]I'm completely against this. Here's why. While it may be possible to lobotomize chickens to be accomodated in such a rig, it'll require a surgically precise procedure that won't at all be cost-effective - Eventually farmers will stop using it and drug up the chickens instead - Not very healthy produce, I think. Worse, they'll probably just use the rigs with perfectly normal, lucid chickens in them. I'm going with instinct on this one.[/QUOTE] See what I said above. Because of the layout of their brain/brain stems, it doesn't require any surgical precision. You can cut off a chicken's head and have it running around for a quite a while using a butcher's knife and a stump. Shove a feeding tube in and you're good to go, doesn't seem very expensive to me.
[QUOTE=Shovelpass;34722348]See what I said above. Because of the layout of their brain/brain stems, it doesn't require any surgical precision. You can cut off a chicken's head and have it running around for a quite a while using a butcher's knife and a stump. Shove a feeding tube in and you're good to go, doesn't seem very expensive to me.[/QUOTE] You've still got to prevent the chicken from bleeding out, and ensure they don't die from shock.
This is actually a no brainer (ba dum tst). It's like the Chicken is in permanent coma/life support and has no real feelings. It actually seems pretty humane compared to what is done now.
[QUOTE=archangel125;34722356]You've still got to prevent the chicken from bleeding out, and ensure they don't die from shock.[/QUOTE] Like I said, they can run around until they starve to death. Chickens don't have gigantic arteries running to their brains like humans do. Lop off their heads and they hardly even bleed, it's not like it spews out or anything. Coagulates fairly quickly.
[QUOTE=archangel125;34722318]I'm completely against this. Here's why. While it may be possible to lobotomize chickens to be accomodated in such a rig, it'll require a surgically precise procedure that won't at all be cost-effective - Eventually farmers will stop using it and drug up the chickens instead - Not very healthy produce, I think. Worse, they'll probably just use the rigs with perfectly normal, lucid chickens in them. I'm going with instinct on this one.[/QUOTE] Yeah but everything you've said is just speculation with no real groundings... [editline]16th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Shovelpass;34722366]Like I said, they can run around until they starve to death. Chickens don't have gigantic arteries running to their brains like humans do. Lop off their heads and they hardly even bleed, it's not like it spews out or anything. Coagulates fairly quickly.[/QUOTE] That's not how chickens work. I think you are confusing them with cockroaches.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;34722367]Yeah but everything you've said is just speculation with no real groundings... [editline]16th February 2012[/editline] That's not how chickens work. I think you are confusing them with cockroaches.[/QUOTE] Yes, it's how they work. If you cut off their head without going too low down the neck, you can easily remove the brain but keep the brain stem intact. Therefore, all of their bodily functions continue to work. They can even run around without their head.
Removing all sense of emotion, awareness, and consciousness from a being isn't exactly humane. But then again, living in never-ending agony and despair could be even worse.
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