Obama signs executive order that gives him the ability to sanction Russian financial services, energ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44304773]this is not true though even if it was, in fact, non violent, itd be stupid not to react to a country forcibly taking another country's land[/QUOTE] [url]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579441563920333966[/url] Crimea voted to join Russia. Overwhelmingly. Russia isn't going to war with anyone. currently, they're just taking back parts of what they previously lost, and those parts really want to join Russia. Any further arguments? [editline]asdf[/editline] what is wrong with you people? when you look at the headlines that say "are the new sanctions enough?", do you ever stop and think, why? Why is any kind of reaction needed? Why create a problem where one doesn't exist? Why are a second round of sanctions needed, Russia hasn't done anything in weeks. And if you continue to blindly support your president, he will continue doing crazy things. Don't give in to propaganda. That being said, I don't think the right-wingers would be a better option. They want sanctions even more than Obama does.

The way this was put through was more of a PR move than anything. Everyone keeps calling Obama a pussy for not taking action. If it was presented to congress, of course it would get through, but it wouldn't put off the same message.

[QUOTE=jeagerfrau;44304597]Putin is doing the right thing, he is defending the Russians living in Crimea and doing things America has already done in the international scene by America.[/QUOTE] Your opinion is wrong

From what I can remember of my classes in American Gov. the President can do shit like this (I can't recall if there have been any precidents however) but Congress still has the final say on the sanctioning, so this isn't some [I]dictator alert impeach[/I] threat that someone's gonna be spewing about in the news. It's just Obama saying 'hey congress and people, remember what I said about getting shit done earlier well guess what I'm doing', but the move puts his administration off balance politcally: now anyone opposed to the flexing of executive muscle has room to get some punches in, so I just gotta wonder if this was the best move for Obama to make.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44304831][url]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579441563920333966[/url] Crimea voted to join Russia. Overwhelmingly. Russia isn't going to war with anyone. currently, they're just taking back parts of what they previously lost, and those parts really want to join Russia. Any further arguments?[/QUOTE] yeah uh don't you find that poll very iffy

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44304831][url]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579441563920333966[/url] Crimea voted to join Russia. Overwhelmingly. Russia isn't going to war with anyone. currently, they're just taking back parts of what they previously lost, and those parts really want to join Russia. Any further arguments?[/QUOTE] it doesnt matter that crimea voted for it, it's a territory that belongs to ukraine, and it should've stayed with them for as long as they wanted it to. letting countries invade other countries and decide stuff for them sets a terrible predecent

[QUOTE=Limed00d;44304944]yeah uh don't you find that poll very iffy[/QUOTE] No. Rigging an election is pretty hard to do without anything leaking out. Does this mean the president is basing his interactions with Russia on conspiracy theories? The majority of Crimea is also Russian population, and do want back into Russia. So a recap: Russia sets up military in Crimea Crimea wants to join Russia US/EU object to democracy in Crimea, saying that it is a violation of international law Sanctions are placed against Russia and a bunch of stupid shit happens.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44304976] So a recap: Russia sets up military in Crimea[/quote] thats called an invasion

[QUOTE=its shortie;44304841]The way this was put through was more of a PR move than anything. Everyone keeps calling Obama a pussy for not taking action. If it was presented to congress, of course it would get through, but it wouldn't put off the same message.[/QUOTE] PR Schmeer rar. Obama and Congress actually taking action against an aggressive country is a major move.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44304976]No. Rigging an election is pretty hard to do without anything leaking out. Does this mean the president is basing his interactions with Russia on conspiracy theories? The majority of Crimea is also Russian population, and do want back into Russia. So a recap: Russia sets up military in Crimea Crimea wants to join Russia US/EU object to democracy in Crimea, saying that it is a violation of international law Sanctions are placed against Russia and a bunch of stupid shit happens.[/QUOTE] Legally it doesn't matter in the slightest whether the Crimean people wanted to join Russia. International law does not say it's okay to invade a country if people want you to

[QUOTE=smurfy;44305115]International law does not say it's okay to invade a country if people want you to[/QUOTE] Fuck international law. Instead, ask the question: Is it ethical? And if what Russia did is somehow unethical, please explain why.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44304976]Russia sets up military in Crimea.[/QUOTE] this shouldn't even need to happen, if Crimea wants to join Russia then do it with Ukraine's involvement, not on Russia's invasion and sudden referendum, the fuck [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=willtheoct;44305151]Fuck international law.[/QUOTE] lol, really?

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;44305154]this shouldn't even need to happen, if Crimea wants to join Russia then do it with Ukraine's involvement, not on Russia's invasion and sudden referendum, the fuck[/QUOTE] Right because the rest of the Ukraine is totally cool with Crimea packing up and leaving, and the Ukrainian government is actually stable enough to do such a thing. Ukraine's interests are not the same as Crimea's interests. [QUOTE=Gwoodman;44305154] lol, really?[/QUOTE] Thanks for cutting out the second part of that sentence, clearly it had no importance or relevance to the first part.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't economic sanctions technically considered an act of war?

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305151]Fuck international law. Instead, ask the question: Is it ethical? And if what Russia did is somehow unethical, please explain why.[/QUOTE] It's unethical because their was no option to say no, they ham-handed the whole election with the usage of biker gangs and self-defense forces brandishing firearms(ala. Black Panther/KKK style). Any form of opposition was threatened with "ashes at their feet" for any actions that go against the unification of Crimea with Russia. This entire situation is fucked. Short and simple. [editline]20th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=willtheoct;44305181]Right because the rest of the Ukraine is totally cool with Crimea packing up and leaving, and the Ukrainian government is actually stable enough to do such a thing. Ukraine's interests are not the same as Crimea's interests.[/QUOTE] Like everything in the world, you can't always come to an agreement on things. I'd love it if Long Island was ejected from the rest of NY, or if Jefferson was allowed to legally separate from California, but that's not gonna happen most likely.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44305192]It's unethical because their was no option to say no, they ham-handed the whole election with the usage of biker gangs and self-defense forces brandishing firearms(ala. Black Panther/KKK style). Any form of opposition was threatened with "ashes at their feet" for any actions that go against the unification of Crimea with Russia. This entire situation is fucked. Short and simple.[/QUOTE] Completely disagree here. They were celebrating at most polling stations. Even before any sort of election was announced, Crimeans weren't opposing Russia. It's funny how an opinion and outlook on something elsewhere is dependant on the news site. Here's an article that is more accurate IMO that what you've been reading. [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/16/ukraine-russia-truce-crimea-referendum[/url] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44305192] but that's not gonna happen most likely.[/QUOTE] But guess what, something like this did just happen. And what's the western reaction? [B][U]ILLEGAL[/U][/B]

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305151]Fuck international law. Instead, ask the question: Is it ethical? And if what Russia did is somehow unethical, please explain why.[/QUOTE] Since when was it left for Putin to decide what was just? Last time we let leaders like him decide what was just, it ends up pissing off every other person off.

On the subject of Obama and PR, considering that it's his second term already, isn't PR pretty much meaningless to him at this point? If I remember right, you only get a maximum of two terms as president here in the U.S., and once they're done you're out of the running for good. Assuming I'm correct, which I'm likely not, then his only use for PR now is bragging rights and/or how people will treat him out of office, neither of which is gonna matter much on an international level. I don't think it matters internationally while he's still in office either, since Russia gives no shits about anything and all of the other nations seem pretty set-in-stone in their love/hatred of us at the moment. Then again, I'm bad at politics, so I'm probably wrong as all hell. In this event, I admit well-meaning idiocy and hope you'll forgive me for it.

Uh...? So what about the fact their is no, no option on the vote? Or numerous bad-votes done by children, Russians, people assuming different names? Or the use of Outlaw Biker Gangs and "Self-Defense Militias" to threaten compliance at voting stations?

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44305256]Uh...? So what about the fact their is no option on the vote? Or numerous bad-votes done by children, Russians, people assuming different names? Or the use of Outlaw Biker Gangs and "Self-Defense Militias" to threaten compliance at voting stations?[/QUOTE] Source plz

[QUOTE=TurboSax;44305248]On the subject of Obama and PR, considering that it's his second term already, isn't PR pretty much meaningless to him at this point? If I remember right, you only get a maximum of two terms as president here in the U.S., and once they're done you're out of the running for good. Assuming I'm correct, which I'm likely not, then his only use for PR now is bragging rights and/or how people will treat him out of office, neither of which is gonna matter much on an international level. I don't think it matters internationally while he's still in office either, since Russia gives no shits about anything and all of the other nations seem pretty set-in-stone in their love/hatred of us at the moment. Then again, I'm bad at politics, so I'm probably wrong as all hell. In this event, I admit well-meaning idiocy and hope you'll forgive me for it.[/QUOTE] He still represents the party and anyone from that party that will attempt to be his successor in the next election. Any Democrat that runs will have to say they supported most, if not all of Obama did; to not do so would fracture the party and possibly result in a GOP victory.

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44304275]to be fair, folks have to remember obama has to deal with one of the most whiny useless congress ever. plus, folks are also complaining he is "weak", i suppose this is also a PR move.[/QUOTE] I can't fathom how he has been week. He's been rather hawkish compared to many of our presidents, we're just so used to the guy who invaded two nations. I mean most of the people who call him weak are also the ones who decry him for things like drone strikes and Libya.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305181]Right because the rest of the Ukraine is totally cool with Crimea packing up and leaving, and the Ukrainian government is actually stable enough to do such a thing. Ukraine's interests are not the same as Crimea's interests.[/QUOTE] Russia shouldn't have any involvement in this from the beginning. Of course, they aren't going to immediately turn independent and the story is over, do you think things are that simple? Do you think it's OK for Russia to invade Ukraine and do you believe that, in the midst of the crisis, there's a sudden smashing percentage of Crimeans wanting to join Russia? Do you see nothing odd in that?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44303995]Sets a pretty dangerous precedent.[/QUOTE] lmao [I]what[/I]? How on earth is an executive order signed in 2014 setting a precedent? Do you know anything about US history?

[QUOTE=Quark:;44304572]Why do you think that's a good way to refer to the president?[/QUOTE] hyuck hyuck he aint muh president

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;44305286]He still represents the party and anyone from that party that will attempt to be his successor in the next election. Any Democrat that runs will have to say they supported most, if not all of Obama did; to not do so would fracture the party and possibly result in a GOP victory.[/QUOTE] Thanks, I forgot about how the president matters to his party post-election. This is one of many reasons why I don't get too deeply into politics, bad memory. Kind of silly that they'd have to be totally okay with everything he did, but then again almost all of politics can be prefixed with "kind of silly" in my personal opinion.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305264]Source plz[/QUOTE] [t]http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/479102003-leader-of-the-russian-motorcycle-club-night-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXt1OV09nH8HcGSLszmNpjxnyZgjH5jhdSa71YiUBy%2fNn3I3bVRjms9v0zWzLhbf89w%3d%3d[/t] Leader of the Night Wolves outside of polling stations. [t]https://news.pn/photo/919876ffb3ea38b7194107405a13c972.i370x296x387.jpeg[/t] Russian Military patrolling the streets constantly. [quote]From Crimea, NPR's Gregory Warner tells our Newscast Desk that "many pro-Ukrainian Crimeans boycotted the referendum, saying the ballot gave them no option to vote to maintain the status quo of Crimea as part of Ukraine." He also reports that "activists complained of irregularities — including voting by children and some people voting multiple times. Also, Russian biker gangs and armed self-defense units patrolled polling stations." From the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, NPR's Eleanor Beardsley reports that the interim government there has rejected the vote, saying it is illegal under their nation's constitution.[/quote] [url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/17/290788338/u-s-and-eu-ready-sanctions-crimea-asks-to-join-russia]NPR[/url]

[QUOTE=Ardosos;44305182]Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't economic sanctions technically considered an act of war?[/QUOTE] Only under special circumstances. We heavily sanctioned and embargo'd the USSR, but that was never a real "war."

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;44305296]Russia shouldn't have any involvement in this from the beginning. Of course, they aren't going to immediately turn independent and the story is over, do you think things are that simple? Do you think it's OK for Russia to invade Ukraine and do you believe that, in the midst of the crisis, there's a sudden smashing percentage of Crimeans wanting to join Russia? Do you see nothing odd in that?[/QUOTE] No, it may not have been carried out in the best of ways, which I found alarming at first, but the facts are simple: Crimea wants to join Russia, and nothing unethical happened in the process(unless you think the international law itself has feelings and unethical things happened to it).

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305333]No, it may not have been carried out in the best of ways, which I found alarming at first, but the facts are simple: Crimea wants to join Russia, and nothing unethical happened in the process(unless you think the international law itself has feelings and unethical things happened to it).[/QUOTE] If Alaska wants to join Russia, or Quebec wants to join Russia, is that okay too?