Obama signs executive order that gives him the ability to sanction Russian financial services, energ - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ardosos;44305182]Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't economic sanctions technically considered an act of war?[/QUOTE] In no way if anything they're the modern alternative to war

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305333]No, it may not have been carried out in the best of ways, which I found alarming at first, but the facts are simple: Crimea wants to join Russia, and nothing unethical happened in the process(unless you think the international law itself has feelings and unethical things happened to it).[/QUOTE] Because deploying your troops right into somebody's territory, undermining your neighbor's sovereignty as a country and stepping on every signed agreement that they have entrusted each other with and targeting Ukrainian military installations is right.

[QUOTE=Ardosos;44305182]Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't economic sanctions technically considered an act of war?[/QUOTE] You're wrong You're corrected

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305333]No, it may not have been carried out in the best of ways, which I found alarming at first, but the facts are simple: Crimea wants to join Russia, and nothing unethical happened in the process(unless you think the international law itself has feelings and unethical things happened to it).[/QUOTE] What is unethical to you?

[QUOTE=alexguydude;44304686]You can't show a little respect? Granted this is the internet and people will always be anonymous, but really? Obongo? Every time someone says that just make them sound ridiculously stupid.[/QUOTE] It was a joke, don't get your titties in a knot. I'm not Obama's biggest fan to begin with

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44304976]No. Rigging an election is pretty hard to do without anything leaking out. Does this mean the president is basing his interactions with Russia on conspiracy theories? The majority of Crimea is also Russian population, and do want back into Russia. So a recap: Russia sets up military in Crimea Crimea wants to join Russia US/EU object to democracy in Crimea, saying that it is a violation of international law Sanctions are placed against Russia and a bunch of stupid shit happens.[/QUOTE] A vote in which one ethnic minority (tartars, you know one persecuted by Russia before) either boycotted it or were not given voting cards and the only people overseeing it were hand-picked by Russia. Do you not see how this was clearly rigged? Not to mention it was illegal anyway, but if you ignore that the parliament that called for the vote was [B]installed while the parliament was taken by the Russian military[/B]. Everything about it is sketchy. The fact that Crimea "voted" for it should be almost entirely disregarded, it was gone about in the worst circumstances possible. (And that's before you even take into account the alleged literal bussing in of voters)

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;44305381]What is unethical to you?[/QUOTE] The guy is either 12 or a troll account, there is no hope in reasoning with them seriously. They have been saying some really messed up stuff in a couple of SH threads recently

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305151]Fuck international law. Instead, ask the question: Is it ethical? And if what Russia did is somehow unethical, please explain why.[/QUOTE] No, you explain how it is ethical for a country to annex another. Its generally agreed that what Russia did was both illegal, immoral and unethical.

[QUOTE=Bumgall;44305363]In no way if anything they're the modern alternative to war[/QUOTE] That do nothing but make the society as a whole suffer while the leadership continues to do whatever the hell they want. Case in point, Iran; North Korea

Why are the Putin supporters all from Canada?

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44305321][t]http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/479102003-leader-of-the-russian-motorcycle-club-night-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXt1OV09nH8HcGSLszmNpjxnyZgjH5jhdSa71YiUBy%2fNn3I3bVRjms9v0zWzLhbf89w%3d%3d[/t] Leader of the Night Wolves outside of polling stations. [t]https://news.pn/photo/919876ffb3ea38b7194107405a13c972.i370x296x387.jpeg[/t] Russian Military patrolling the streets constantly. [url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/17/290788338/u-s-and-eu-ready-sanctions-crimea-asks-to-join-russia]NPR[/url][/QUOTE] I see pictures of bike gangs with Russian flags, and a man walking next to some military troops, smoking a cigarette. What's wrong here? As for the ballot, voting to become sovereign isn't a non-option. Yes, I would have liked to see the third option, but thanks to stupid Russian politics(not recognizing Ukraine) they wouldn't include it. In any case, if Crimea wanted to remain with the Ukraine, they could easily vote to separate and then rejoin Ukraine. Watch the vid on this page: [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/16/pro-russian-crimeans-celebrate-landslide-vote-union-russia-ukraine[/url] [QUOTE=Disgruntled;44305467]Why are the Putin supporters all from Canada?[/QUOTE] My guess is that Canadians are far less accustomed to propaganda than the US, Russia, or China. We see your bullshit.

[QUOTE=Disgruntled;44305467]Why are the Putin supporters all from Canada?[/QUOTE] Because Russia sent spys and sleeper agents to Canada in the hopes of annexing it too

[QUOTE=Disgruntled;44305467]Why are the Putin supporters all from Canada?[/QUOTE] All the same person? Who knows.

the shills are real

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305486]I see pictures of bike gangs with Russian flags, and a man walking next to some military troops, smoking a cigarette. What's wrong here? As for the ballot, voting to become sovereign isn't a non-option. Yes, I would have liked to see the third option, but thanks to stupid Russian politics(not recognizing Ukraine) they wouldn't include it. In any case, if Crimea wanted to remain with the Ukraine, they could easily vote to separate and then rejoin Ukraine. Watch the vid on this page: [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/16/pro-russian-crimeans-celebrate-landslide-vote-union-russia-ukraine[/url][/QUOTE] Sure, they could vote to separate, and then their "new parliament" would just declare Crimea part of Russia in a new constitution. That's why people didn't vote. They knew that either way, the outcome would be the same.

[QUOTE=Ashes;44305494]Because Russia sent spys and sleeper agents to Canada in the hopes of annexing it too[/QUOTE] Doesn't even need to be spies, its a tactic that has actually been used. You fill an area with people from your country / ethnicity and over the years it de-facto becomes yours (or you go into help them). Its pretty much what Turkey has been accused of doing in North Cyprus. I think its even classed as a type of genocide somehow.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44305518]Sure, they could vote to separate, and then their "new parliament" would just declare Crimea part of Russia in a new constitution. That's why people didn't vote. They knew that either way, the outcome would be the same.[/QUOTE] About that: If I could find any evidence that a large number of Crimeans did not vote, I would change my opinion pretty quickly.

[QUOTE=Redswandir;44304917]From what I can remember of my classes in American Gov. the President can do shit like this (I can't recall if there have been any precidents however) but Congress still has the final say on the sanctioning, so this isn't some [I]dictator alert impeach[/I] threat that someone's gonna be spewing about in the news. It's just Obama saying 'hey congress and people, remember what I said about getting shit done earlier well guess what I'm doing', but the move puts his administration off balance politcally: now anyone opposed to the flexing of executive muscle has room to get some punches in, so I just gotta wonder if this was the best move for Obama to make.[/QUOTE] Well Executive Orders themselves are in no way new. For anyone worried about ~precedent~, FDR used one of these for the Japanese internment during WWII, and this is not even in the same galaxy as that. The 'precedent' already exists.

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305531]About that: If I could find any evidence that a large number of Crimeans did not vote, I would change my opinion pretty quickly.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/16/ukraine-russia-truce-crimea-referendum[/url] Your own source, the section right above the picture of the person riding the bicycle....

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44305531]About that: If I could find any evidence that a large number of Crimeans did not vote, I would change my opinion pretty quickly.[/QUOTE] The Tatars, an ethnic minority making up some 12% of the Crimean population, boycotted the vote.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44304879]Your opinion is wrong[/QUOTE] Except I'm not wrong, you're wrong.

[QUOTE=jeagerfrau;44305577]Except I'm not wrong, you're wrong.[/QUOTE] How can you argue with someone who is living through this issue?

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44305551][url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/16/ukraine-russia-truce-crimea-referendum[/url] Your own source, the section right above the picture of the person riding the bicycle....[/QUOTE] No, I'm looking for numbers. A total votes placed, or something like that, and since data is probably available somewhere on the number of Crimean residents before all this, you could get the % of people who voted. So if 30% of the population didn't vote, that would be alarming. If 40% didn't vote then I would see the poll as illegal.

[QUOTE=jeagerfrau;44305577]Except I'm not wrong, you're wrong.[/QUOTE] How? Both the things in your post were horribly wrong

[QUOTE=Megafan;44305559]The Tatars, an ethnic minority making up some 12% of the Crimean population, boycotted the vote.[/QUOTE] The tartars are also the natives of that land. They were deported by the soviet union and have just started really coming back to their land.

USA -> Illegally Invades Iraq, replaces legitimate sovereign government with a puppet regime on trumped up pretexted that was completely false. EU/USA/West -> Stops Serbian military intervention in Kosovo and allows it to pursue independence even though it wasn't legal in Serbia. Lauded as a legal and legitimate move by the majority of the west and other stupid stooges. USA/NATO -> Creates nonsense justification for intervention in Libya and attacks it in a aggressive campaign of basically terror bombings. The West is being hypocritical as usual, Putin is obviously in the right here, at least in the world the US helped to create.

if russia occupation is wrong, what about Israel's occupation ? double standards?

[QUOTE=bloser;44305604]How can you argue with someone who is living through this issue?[/QUOTE] Because that is called an appeal to authority and has nothing to do what so ever with the fact the military intervention by Putin is completely legitimate. [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;44305610]How? Both the things in your post were horribly wrong[/QUOTE] *Horribly Right

[QUOTE=willtheoct;44304831][url]http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579441563920333966[/url] Crimea voted to join Russia. Overwhelmingly. Russia isn't going to war with anyone. currently, they're just taking back parts of what they previously lost, and those parts really want to join Russia. Any further arguments? [editline]asdf[/editline] what is wrong with you people? when you look at the headlines that say "are the new sanctions enough?", do you ever stop and think, why? Why is any kind of reaction needed? Why create a problem where one doesn't exist? Why are a second round of sanctions needed, Russia hasn't done anything in weeks. And if you continue to blindly support your president, he will continue doing crazy things. Don't give in to propaganda. That being said, I don't think the right-wingers would be a better option. They want sanctions even more than Obama does.[/QUOTE] A certain toothbrush-stache'd fiend showed us long ago that when a country starts taking a little land they'll eventually start taking more.

[QUOTE=TheMrFailz;44305665]A certain toothbrush-stache'd fiend showed us long ago that when a country starts taking a little land they'll eventually start taking more.[/QUOTE] That's a idiotic violation of Godwins law, and I'd like to point out that Hitler's annexations were completely legitimate as well.