Christian preacher John Craven held 'without food or water' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44412989]There's a difference between parents being temporarily annoyed by something their child has done, versus hating somebody for an innate characteristic they possess.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44412989]hating somebody for an innate characteristic they possess.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44412989]hating somebody[/QUOTE] he literally said "whilst God hates sin, He loves the sinner". He doesn't fucking hate the sinner he loves the sinner. I'm not even a Christian but you're distorting the doctrine beyond belief. Think before you spout your mouth.

Why are we even discussing it. A fucking guy was deprived of food and water and all we're talking about is his beliefs which he can have even if you think they are dumb.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44412730]I made you... and I love you... but I also hate you.[/QUOTE] More like I love you but hate what you do

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;44413146]he literally said "whilst God hates sin, He loves the sinner". He doesn't fucking hate the sinner he loves the sinner. I'm not even a Christian but you're distorting the doctrine beyond belief. Think before you spout your mouth.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Swineflu;44413166]More like I love you but hate what you do[/QUOTE] How can you hate something that someone does when they have no control over doing it? That's almost like saying "I love you, but I hate that you have to breathe." It doesn't mean anything and it's stupid to try to defend that. "Sorry I don't hate you for being homosexual, I just hate homosexuality."

[QUOTE=matt000024;44413156]Why are we even discussing it. A fucking guy was deprived of food and water and all we're talking about is his beliefs which he can have even if you think they are dumb.[/QUOTE] Well actually the disgusting this is that he apparently [b]can't[/b] have them because it's "hate speech" to say mean things about gay people.

So he was arrested because somebody provoked him to speak his opinion? What the fuck ? What shithead kids [editline]31st March 2014[/editline] Also, I've made out with a man in front of a gay basher with a megaphone in front of a crowd, if I knew I could've got the guy arrested for fucking [I]nothing[/I], I probably should have

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44413178]How can you hate something that someone does when they have no control over doing it. That's almost like saying "I love you, but I hate that you have to breathe." It doesn't mean anything.[/QUOTE] Pedophilia exists, and I hate it, but must I hate every person who suffers from such a perverse attraction, regardless of whether they make the mistake of acting on it? Obviously, being gay is [I]much[/I] less severe an offense by any standard (not at all an offense, I'd say) but it is true that you can hate someone's qualities, even uncontrollable ones, while not hating the person. You can attack the notion that homosexuality should be considered a sin, but in doing so, you should leave the notion of "hate the sin, love the sinner" alone because it generally and logically is fine.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;44413280]Pedophilia exists, and I hate it, but must I hate every person who suffers from such a perverse attraction, regardless of whether they make the mistake of acting on it? Obviously, being gay is [I]much[/I] less severe an offense by any standard (not at all an offense, I'd say) but it is true that you can hate someone's qualities, even uncontrollable ones, while not hating the person. You can attack the notion that homosexuality should be considered a sin, but in doing so, you should leave the notion of "hate the sin, love the sinner" alone because it generally and logically is fine.[/QUOTE] What is a person if not just a summation of all their qualities? If I found out a person was a pedophile I wouldn't willing associate with them. Do I hate them by default? I don't know, but one single innate quality affects my judgement of them. If you truly hate a certain quality then it's not too much of a stretch that you would hate all people who possess that quality.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44413178]How can you hate something that someone does when they have no control over doing it? That's almost like saying "I love you, but I hate that you have to breathe." It doesn't mean anything and it's stupid to try to defend that. "Sorry I don't hate you for being homosexual, I just hate homosexuality."[/QUOTE] Because homosexuality is one single thing. "Sin" is a pretty broad term. Comparing it to hating homosexuality is completely irrelevant. Hating sin but loving the sinner makes perfectly good sense - maybe not if you're being too literal (or flat out ignorant) to acknowledge any symbolism but the whole idea of Christianity is that no sinner is too far from being "saved" and that's exactly what it's saying. He's saying that God will never stop loving you, no matter what.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44413321]What is a person if not just a summation of all their qualities? If I found out a person was a pedophile I wouldn't willing associate with them. Do I hate them by default? I don't know, but one single innate quality affects my judgement on them. If you truly hate a certain quality then it's not too much of a stretch that you would hate all people who possess that quality.[/QUOTE] Perhaps it is true that no [I]man[/I] can perfectly say that he "hates the sin and loves the sinner". But the idea of Christianity is kind of that God will take anyone who legitimately wants to wash their sins away... I mean, I'm a pretty good guy but I wouldn't want to associate strongly with heroin addicts. Reason number one: ick. Number two: risk of personal harm. It's my limitations as a human that cause me to have to do so. God is not so afflicted.

i don't see how it's fair to arbitrarily design someone with a trait that you despise with every fiber of your being, then threaten to light them on fire and throw them into a chasm if they remind you of it, and then claim to be willing to forgive them for problems that you literally both invented and dispensed to them. unless you want to argue that homosexuality is actually a choice that you consciously make, which is both objectively wrong [I]and[/I] still doesn't explain why you gave them the traits to decide that they liked being gay. it's like teaching a dog from birth to press a button every time it's hungry, and then one day making it so every time they press it they get electrocuted. and then you puzzle for hours and hours on why it's still doing it, and eventually you decide that you don't hate the dog - you just hate the fact that you designed it to kill itself. and then when it finishes self-destructing and it finally does itself in trying to feed itself, you set it on fire and yell at it for ten hours for being so fucking stupid.

i got held for 16 hours without food or water by the police a few years ago too, am i seriously obliged to this much compensation?w Nevermind i realized he never actually committed a crime

[QUOTE=Cone;44413588]i don't see how it's fair to arbitrarily design someone with a trait that you despise with every fiber of your being, then threaten to light them on fire and throw them into a chasm if they remind you of it[/QUOTE] Even though I don't see why it would be wrong whether it's a choice or not, most people intolerant towards it within the Abrahamic religions tend to be ignorant, and see it as a choice.

[QUOTE=Cone;44413588]i don't see how it's fair to arbitrarily design someone with a trait that you despise with every fiber of your being, then threaten to light them on fire and throw them into a chasm if they remind you of it, and then claim to be willing to forgive them for problems that you literally both invented and dispensed to them. unless you want to argue that homosexuality is actually a choice that you consciously make, which is both objectively wrong [I]and[/I] still doesn't explain why you gave them the traits to decide that they liked being gay. it's like teaching a dog from birth to press a button every time it's hungry, and then one day making it so every time they press it they get electrocuted. and then you puzzle for hours and hours on why it's still doing it, and eventually you decide that you don't hate the dog - you just hate the fact that you designed it to kill itself. and then when it finishes self-destructing and it finally does itself in trying to feed itself, you set it on fire and yell at it for ten hours for being so fucking stupid.[/QUOTE] Well, ok [editline]31st March 2014[/editline] I'm not a Christian, I don't claim the doctrine is flawless but I just don't like it when people spout batshit things about it.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;44413747]Well, ok [editline]31st March 2014[/editline] I'm not a Christian, I don't claim the doctrine is flawless but I just don't like it when people spout batshit things about it.[/QUOTE] i know, i just object to the idea that it's logically self-consistent to engineer someone to have a characteristic that you hate. intelligent design and sin aren't really compatible as concepts.

[QUOTE=Cone;44413973]i know, i just object to the idea that it's logically self-consistent to engineer someone to have a characteristic that you hate. intelligent design and sin aren't really compatible as concepts.[/QUOTE] Christians never claim that Humans were engineered with those characteristics.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;44414001]Christians never claim that Humans were engineered with those characteristics.[/QUOTE] so you're saying that being gay is a choice?

On one hand if it was in America that would be a violation of the 1st amendment. On the other hand he got compensated with thousands of dollars, which sure as FUCK would not have happened in America, even if it was clear that his first amendment rights had been violated.

[QUOTE=Cone;44414037]so you're saying that being gay is a choice?[/QUOTE] No, I said that Christian theology doesn't state that God created sin.

So can people be arrested in Britain for "offending" someone? That is pretty fucking ridiculous. [editline]31st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Cone;44413973]i know, i just object to the idea that it's logically self-consistent to engineer someone to have a characteristic that you hate. intelligent design and sin aren't really compatible as concepts.[/QUOTE] You haven't even heard of Adam and Eve, have you? Sin wasn't created by God.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;44414285]No, I said that Christian theology doesn't state that God created sin.[/QUOTE] So what then? Did all gay people make a deal with the devil or something? How did they "contract" this gay sin if it's neither a choice nor part of their design?

Why is this thread turning into a religion debate? A guy seriously got his human right violated and we keep doing these stupid arguments. Remember last thread?

[QUOTE=matt000024;44414395]Why is this thread turning into a religion debate? A guy seriously got his human right violated and we keep doing these stupid arguments. Remember last thread?[/QUOTE] It's a pretty integral part of the story, isn't it? What if god is real and he really doesn't like gay sex. Then what this guy is saying is completely legit and should be spread around the globe.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;44414305]So can people be arrested in Britain for "offending" someone? That is pretty fucking ridiculous. [editline]31st March 2014[/editline] You haven't even heard of Adam and Eve, have you? Sin wasn't created by God.[/QUOTE] Sin was pretty much created by God. It's like putting a piece of bacon in front of a Dog, telling him not to eat it, and then waiting until he does. And then when he does, cutting off one of his legs and locking him out of your house and then claiming it was his fault. The story of Adam and Eve, oddly, makes a lot more sense when you remove God from it completely.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44414373]So what then? Did all gay people make a deal with the devil or something? How did they "contract" this gay sin if it's neither a choice nor part of their design?[/QUOTE] The Bible says that mankind inherited a sinful nature that corrupted their image when we first sinned. Humans weren't intended to lust or have greed or murder or lie but we all do it, in reality and in our minds, it is a part of our being being now. The majority of Christians don't treat homosexuals differently than anybody else because we recognise that they are no different than a heterosexual, the main criticism that is brought up against Christianity in its attitude towards Homosexuality is marriage, I personally believe Homosexuals have no business being married in a Church service by a Christian pastor under God, it is impossible to get around the biblical passages condemning it however if our secular governments wish to perform a union of two partners giving them the legal status that that entails then I have no issue with it as long as Churches are not forced to perform it. I do not see this as a double standard as adulterer's etc are not allowed positions in the Church either because they are equally condemned Biblically, it is the way things are. You keep talking about Homosexuality like it is some unique thing to believe is a sin when the guy in the story would just put in the category of going against God's intended design like what many things Humans do are put under, it was clear in the story that he was preaching salvation for all sinners, he wasn't out there gay-bashing - he was asked his opinion and politely stated it with biblical justification - he was wrongly treated and showed what a joke our society has become with restrictions on freedom of speech. This isn't complicated stuff, it's a google search away if you actually gave a shit about any of it instead of coming into these threads and just shitting them up with your anti-theism, I've experienced it from you before - turning a thread to do with a religious person/idea and completely twisting it around into a criticism of entire doctrines and denominational belief structures instead of addressing the actual content of the article in question. You don't come into threads to learn about the otherside, you come into criticise it and ignore everything that is said instead of making an effort to gain any understanding for yourself and be able to form any sort of constructive dialogue.

[QUOTE=Explosions;44414414]It's a pretty integral part of the story, isn't it? What if god is real and he really doesn't like gay sex. Then what this guy is saying is completely legit and should be spread around the globe.[/QUOTE] How? People have a right to have their own opinions. This guy was asked his, he wasn't going out and forcing it. Then he was put in jail for hours without food or water. I don't see how debating religion and homosexuality has any point here. You're missing the point of the article.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44414431]15 hours without food or water honestly isn't that bad. I do that normally somedays when I'm busy (mostly when I can't afford food :v: ) It also depends on when he got arrested. Did he sleep 8/15 of those hours? I'm not sure what the laws are regarding how much they have to feed you in a 24 hours period, either. I'd go 14 hours without food for a few thousand of dollars for sure.[/QUOTE] What if he was already hungry and thirsty for longer than 15 hours before his arrest? That would double the pain.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;44414617]The Bible says that mankind inherited a sinful nature that corrupted their image when we first sinned. Humans weren't intended to lust or have greed or murder or lie but we all do it, in reality and in our minds, it is a part of our being being now.[/quote] Except all humans aren't homosexuals. Only some are and it's due to accident of birth alone. Gays don't take it upon themselves to be gay. If you dispute this, then say so. Otherwise, explain how it makes sense for some select humans to be born into a specific sin yet god somehow didn't do it even though he creates all life and he creates the circumstances of that life. [quote]The majority of Christians don't treat homosexuals differently than anybody else because we recognise that they are no different than a heterosexual, the main criticism that is brought up against Christianity in its attitude towards Homosexuality is marriage, I personally believe Homosexuals have no business being married in a Church service by a Christian pastor under God, it is impossible to get around the biblical passages condemning it however if our secular governments wish to perform a union of two partners giving them the legal status that that entails then I have no issue with it as long as Churches are not forced to perform it. I do not see this as a double standard as adulterer's etc are not allowed positions in the Church either because they are equally condemned Biblically, it is the way things are.[/quote] I don't know of a single person who has ever said "gays have to be allowed to marry in churches." I've never heard it. I keep hearing it as a defense against gay marriage, though. [quote]You keep talking about Homosexuality like it is some unique thing to believe is a sin when the guy in the story would just put in the category of going against God's intended design like what many things Humans do are put under, it was clear in the story that he was preaching salvation for all sinners, he wasn't out there gay-bashing - he was asked his opinion and politely stated it with biblical justification - he was wrongly treated and showed what a joke our society has become with restrictions on freedom of speech.[/quote] I think it's ridiculous that the man was arrested for this. [quote]This isn't complicated stuff, it's a google search away if you actually gave a shit about any of it instead of coming into these threads and just shitting them up with your anti-theism, I've experienced it from you before - turning a thread to do with a religious person/idea and completely twisting it around into a criticism of entire doctrines and denominational belief structures instead of addressing the actual content of the article in question. You don't come into threads to learn about the otherside, you come into criticise it and ignore everything that is said instead of making an effort to gain any understanding for yourself and be able to form any sort of constructive dialogue.[/QUOTE] I have addressed the article multiple times and I've made my position clear. This obscenity of a law should be done away with; it's a direct breach of the principles of free speech. In the context of this thread, I only mentioned god in response to another poster who already mentioned him. Regardless, I don't have to explain myself to you. [editline]31st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=matt000024;44414651]How? People have a right to have their own opinions. This guy was asked his, he wasn't going out and forcing it. Then he was put in jail for hours without food or water. I don't see how debating religion and homosexuality has any point here. You're missing the point of the article.[/QUOTE] That was kind of a joke post.

Christ, no wonder American conservatives are afraid..

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;44412226]I'm no expert, but I'd say those two kids qualify as dickheads.[/QUOTE] Fuck that man, some fucking preach is going to threaten you with hell from his stupid primitive book, then why can't 2 gay guys kiss? The teens expressed their freedoms.