Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic - Polidicks

POPE FRAAAAANK

Not being religious, that's something I never understood. If you believe God made everything, why didn't God create a system to help things adapt? Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

[QUOTE=Memobot;46352245]Not being religious, that's something I never understood. If you believe God made everything, why didn't God create a system to help things adapt? Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?[/QUOTE] For some reason, some people have a really hard time accepting that the Bible is not a 100% accurate, word for word interpretation of how things happened. Because the Bible makes no mention of it, it must not be true. Even if God existed, I doubt he would thoroughly explain in meticulous detail how the evolutionary process worked to a civilization that barely understood basic biology. Hence its omission because I'm sure God would understand the concept of "Keep It Simple Stupid".

Pope John Paul II already believed in evolution and had stated so multiple times throughout his papacy, and the church has leaned toward evolution for quite some time now. A dominance of Christian creationism is only really present in the US. "I have been a vocal opponent of intelligent design. It is not science, although it pretends to be. I am concerned that fundamentalist religious beliefs might continue to influence the role of science in the modern decision-making process. If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science." -Fr. George Coyne, Chief Vatican Astronomer

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46351047]Protestants don't recognize the pope's authority and creationists are for the great majority protestant, so that won't really help.[/QUOTE] Hell, if anything this'll even convince them further that Evolution is wrong, after all those dang Catholics are endorsin' it now, too!

The Catholic Church is generally pretty on the ball with philosophy, science, education, etc and has served its role admirably for thousands of years, especially when it was one of the few institutions to support education and a literate class. If you try to prove god exists through shit like creationism, say evolution doesn't happen, etc then that is actually heresy in Christianity and has been for centuries. It is officially heresy to deny the possibility of evolution, the big bang, and multiverse theory, at least since the papal condemnations of 1277. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;46351047]Protestants don't recognize the pope's authority and creationists are for the great majority protestant, so that won't really help.[/QUOTE] Protestants tend to fuck up a lot, so its hardly surprising.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;46350745]I don't see why the Big Bang theory would even be in contrast to anything said in the bible. They line up pretty much perfectly, in the beginning there was nothing, then there was an unorganized mess that got organized.[/QUOTE] And on the second day, God said to the atoms "organize your shit m8". And so all that shit became organized and it was good.

The day he dies will be a very sad and empty day... Even worse when he said he wouldn't be around for long :(

Where's the catch?

[QUOTE=BFG9000;46351549]Galileo was p fucking devout tho[/QUOTE] he had the bad habit of saying the clergy were wrong in their [I]interpritation[/I] of the bible, which is what history books...tend to leave out trying to paint the church as crucifying science [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] rather paradoxically, the belief that the catholic church championed in Galileo's day was "invented" by aristotle to explain the greek beliefs, while the theories created about heliocenterism were from catholic sources, like Copernicus or Galileo

Evolution theory p. much counters the bible in every way though. The pope will get a lot of shit thrown at him. That's very controversial. To please the religious you would have to say something like "But god guided the evolution" or some other bullshit. How is it going to be tied together?

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46353147]Evolution theory p. much counters the bible in every way though. The pope will get a lot of shit thrown at him. That's very controversial. To please the religious you would have to say something like "But god guided the evolution" or some other bullshit. How is it going to be tied together?[/QUOTE] evolution only counters the bible if you're a crackpot that takes the entire thing litterally, the catholic church's own position on the matter is that it shouldn't be taken litterally or [I]naturally[/I] as ken ham-head believes the #1 goal of the bible, to teach morals to live by, thus stories in the bible may be there to teach actual morals to live by.... [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] at least the church isn't as bad as india, where their newly elected leader really believes that the indian people once had genetics, space flight, advanced plastic surgery, and all kinds of other super-sciences but they forgot them

[QUOTE=Sableye;46353240]evolution only counters the bible if you're a crackpot that takes the entire thing litterally, the catholic church's own position on the matter is that it shouldn't be taken litterally or [I]naturally[/I] as ken ham-head believes the #1 goal of the bible, to teach morals to live by, thus stories in the bible may be there to teach actual morals to live by....[/QUOTE] Well uh but if you don't consider what is said in the bible (God sent Adam and Eve to Earth) truth, then you have to accept it's a lie or a riddle. Then you can easily accept that everything else in the book is either a lie and a riddle. If I was a believer I would have a hard time understanding how that shit works.

[QUOTE=BlueChihuahua;46351896]The Catholic church has had a pretty sharp science focus for a while actually. The reason was they had the means to educate their priests and nuns, more so than the general population. Another example of a scientific-breakthrough was the discovery of genetics by the priest Mendel.[/QUOTE] Bullshit. The reason so many Priests were doing science was that they were part of the few people who didn't really have to work for their living compared to other people and thus had the time and ressources. And with every little village having a priest they posed a pretty damn big part of this group of "people who have to dedicate little time to work". [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Memobot;46352245]Not being religious, that's something I never understood. If you believe God made everything, why didn't God create a system to help things adapt? Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?[/QUOTE] Because the god in the little things, the god behind the magnificence of universal physical constants is nothing you can use to make people give you money and power.

[QUOTE=Sableye;46353240]evolution only counters the bible if you're a crackpot that takes the entire thing litterally, the catholic church's own position on the matter is that it shouldn't be taken litterally or [I]naturally[/I] as ken ham-head believes the #1 goal of the bible, to teach morals to live by, thus stories in the bible may be there to teach actual morals to live by.... [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] at least the church isn't as bad as india, where their newly elected leader really believes that the indian people once had genetics, space flight, advanced plastic surgery, and all kinds of other super-sciences but they forgot them[/QUOTE] I think when people say this it's because you need a literal Adam and Eve to fall, to put mankind into Sin, to have the need to sacrifice Christ. If you don't have that, then what is Christianity?

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;46353263]Well uh but if you don't consider what is said in the bible (God sent Adam and Eve to Earth) truth, then you have to accept it's a lie or a riddle. Then you can easily accept that everything else in the book is either a lie and a riddle. If I was a believer I would have a hard time understanding how that shit works.[/QUOTE] you didn't even read my post, the goal of the bible and the gospel (the good news) is to teach people morals to live by, adam and eve don't have to be true, neither does any of it, for catholics the old testimate isn't a history like it is to the jewish faith, and the new testimate is very much about teaching good morals and things to live by. only christian fundimentalists and people who have had this stuff shoveled down their throat and haven't been shown anything else can ligitimatly claim that it is such, but i've done the whole catholic school route, i've done the whole public school route too, and i'm even in a catholic college and yes i've had a professor that believes the old testimate is completely factual but i've had professors that are published theologians who have said its not to be taken literally [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] probably the smartest professor i've had was a guy who's been publishing on the topic for 20-30 years and that is the message he told us, not to look at the bible at face value and understand that those are moralist stories not literal factual events [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=EcksDee;46353294]I think when people say this it's because you need a literal Adam and Eve to fall, to put mankind into Sin, to have the need to sacrifice Christ. If you don't have that, then what is Christianity?[/QUOTE] its still a set of guidelines to live by, what does it matter how factual the story behind them is, for the people who cannot see this then the stories are real and factual because they don't understand the history behind the texts, the bible wasn't [I]the[/I] bible until over 400 years after the crucifiction, dozens of versions circulated in various areas and it wasn't until a bunch of leaders in the early church got togather and decided what they wanted to teach with the bible

[QUOTE=Sableye;46353331]you didn't even read my post, the goal of the bible and the gospel (the good news) is to teach people morals to live by, adam and eve don't have to be true, neither does any of it, for catholics the old testimate isn't a history like it is to the jewish faith, and the new testimate is very much about teaching good morals and things to live by. only christian fundimentalists and people who have had this stuff shoveled down their throat and haven't been shown anything else can ligitimatly claim that it is such, but i've done the whole catholic school route, i've done the whole public school route too, and i'm even in a catholic college and yes i've had a professor that believes the old testimate is completely factual but i've had professors that are published theologians who have said its not to be taken literally [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] probably the smartest professor i've had was a guy who's been publishing on the topic for 20-30 years and that is the message he told us, not to look at the bible at face value and understand that those are moralist stories not literal factual events[/QUOTE] I thought the whole point of jesus was that his sacrifice wiped clean original sin, which is the reason the judaic laws were established to begin with, and why they don't apply to Christians now. if original sin never happened because adam and eve never existed then what did christ die for and why was there judaic law to begin with [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;46353331] its still a set of guidelines to live by, what does it matter how factual the story behind them is, for the people who cannot see this then the stories are real and factual because they don't understand the history behind the texts, the bible wasn't [I]the[/I] bible until over 400 years after the crucifiction, dozens of versions circulated in various areas and it wasn't until a bunch of leaders in the early church got togather and decided what they wanted to teach with the bible[/QUOTE] i don't think anyone saying the bible makes no sense is arguing that it's reliable the fact that it's so unreliable and so clearly edited is part of why I think it's silly to base your view of the universe on it

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;46350879]Not an unfounded bias unfortunately.[/QUOTE] It really is. The only time they clash is world creation and evolution, the two things Francis just said happened.

Coming from a former Catholic... The Church is fairly ass-backwards in some ways. Priests having to remain celibate, not allowed to marry, women can't become priests, etc. That said, I've never been taught, even in Sunday school, that the creation story was supposed to be taken seriously. Roman Catholicism as a whole tends to take most of the bible as a book of lessons rather than a true history - Though they generally do believe the story of Jesus, etc.

but he still thinks god creted the big bang and evolution he is of course an anti-science guy and this declaration is just for gaining sympathy

[QUOTE=vBatuhan;46353783]but he still thinks god creted the big bang and evolution[/QUOTE] Well, sure. That's what religion is supposed to be about. The difference is that he doesn't believe that God waved a magic wand and wished everything into existence a few hundred years ago, he thinks that God did it the hard way over billions of years. Seems more sensible to me, if you're a creationist.

[QUOTE=vBatuhan;46353783]but he still thinks god creted the big bang and evolution he is of course an anti-science guy and this declaration is just for gaining sympathy[/QUOTE] I really don't see why that's a problem, I don't believe in god but the stance of "god guided the creation of the universe slowly" doesn't really need to conflict with science does it? it just means god invented science. the church does a lot wrong but this isn't one of them, didn't one pope say that space aliens don't contradict the bible cause god would have just created them too, as like a side project.

This has already been the church's position for quite some time. I'm pretty sure Benedict also said this. But of course the media has a hardon for Francis at the moment so it sounds like he is making big sweeping declarations and changes in the church. The reality is that he hasn't done jack shit.

aaand now my mother will start denouncing the pope and saying "don't you dare listen to what he says!!"

[QUOTE=gk99;46353552]It really is. The only time they clash is world creation and evolution, the two things Francis just said happened.[/QUOTE] Yeah but then the people who still believe in world creation exactly the way it was told in the book are people who don't listen to the pope to begin with because they're not part of the same religion.

Francis probably still believes that a priest can mutter some words over a cracker and wave his hands around to turn it into human flesh.

Pope Francis is awesome. Science and the Bible really don't contradict each other unless you take things literally. As a Christian myself I've always held the view that science is a more in-depth explanation as to what occurred in the Bible. God's tool. We're not all thick-skulled ignorant people that take everything in the Bible to be [I]literally[/I] true, and I sincerely apologize for those sort of people.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;46354985]Pope Francis is awesome. Science and the Bible really don't contradict each other unless you take things literally. As a Christian myself I've always held the view that science is a more in-depth explanation as to what occurred in the Bible. God's tool. We're not all thick-skulled ignorant people that take everything in the Bible to be [I]literally[/I] true, and I sincerely apologize for those sort of people.[/QUOTE] Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? That contradicts science pretty badly. This is one of the things in the Bible that even the most liberal Christians believe in, so that's why I used it.

[QUOTE=Explosions;46354992]Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? That contradicts science pretty badly.[/QUOTE] Can we not do this, please? Of course I have a response for that but let's not turn this thread into a religious debate.

[QUOTE=Explosions;46354808]Francis probably still believes that a priest can mutter some words over a cracker and wave his hands around to turn it into human flesh.[/QUOTE] No one even remotely believes this in any form of christian belief