Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46355109]No one even remotely believes this in any form of christian belief[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist]The Catholics do.[/url]

[QUOTE=BlueChihuahua;46350783]Not necessarily. The pope believes in conscious evolution. God's still a major part of the picture.[/QUOTE] Hey as long as they believe in natural processes and the evolution of the universe through physical processes then I don't really mind if they believe that someone constructed it all.

[Quote=Stiffy360]Kind of funny how him saying how God can't do anything kind of undermines everything Catholicism used to believe in. If God can't create the earth in 6 literal days and has to use evolution, how can heaven exist? If heaven doesn't exist then there's no point in what you believe in.[/Quote] Maybe God was lazy? Maybe he created the system of evolution to populate different planets with different beings without him having to customize DNA for every single being? Think Spore. Would you seriously customize every single creature for every single planet, let alone plan it all out? Evolution takes care of all this, and thne some. Who ever said God ONLY created humanity and earth by the way? Evolution, if applied to alien psychology, still works. Regardless of what the aliens are made of. By the way, I'm atheist. I just enjoy thinking about these kinds of things. Because what if?

[QUOTE=Pantz Master;46354306] But of course the media has a hardon for Francis at the moment so it sounds like he is making big sweeping declarations and changes in the church. The reality is that he hasn't done jack shit.[/QUOTE] From what I know, the Pope's main job is to guide the faithful and affirm the church's positions. Confirming church values in a world that has historically associated the Catholic Church wrongly with fundamentalist beliefs sounds like Pope Francis is doing what he is supposed to do. According to the monk who teaches my Theology Class, the policy of the Catholic Church, in regards to the Biblical Niagara Conference, is integrating faith with reason.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46355109]No one even remotely believes this in any form of christian belief[/QUOTE] At least back in the 16th century, this was most definitely a thing Catholics believed in - it's one the basic things the protestants wanted to change. I don't know anything about more recent Catholicism, though, but I wouldn't be surprised if the catholic church kept this part.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46355617]At least back in the 16th century, this was most definitely a thing Catholics believed in - it's one the basic things the protestants wanted to change. I don't know anything about more recent Catholicism, though, but I wouldn't be surprised if the catholic church kept this part.[/QUOTE] The Catholic Church, Orthodox Christianity, and some specific Protestants still believe it.

The thing it is up to the reader to adopt a literal or metaphorical standpoint in interpreting the Book of Genesis. The Bible is not a singular book so to speak, its technically a collection of other books written in different times compiled together, and therefore most religious academics would interpret different books differently. As such, Genesis doesn't seem to be some literal history of the world- its most likely some metaphorical book made to characterize God as an all-powerful figure, and that humankind is inherently imperfect/sinister (I'm just simplifying things a bit here). Some New Testament books like Acts, can be considered a piece of history as it does give as some degree of scope in the ancient world through the eyes of a contemporary writer, although its reliability is tainted by supposed 'supernatural events.' We can see its true nature, some prominent scholars and historians view the book of Acts as being quite accurate and is corroborated by archaeology.

[QUOTE=Explosions;46354808]Francis probably still believes that a priest can mutter some words over a cracker and wave his hands around to turn it into human flesh.[/QUOTE] Is there anything you can't do to shit on the Pope? Seriously, every goddamn thread that he does something positive, you have to shoot it down. You're so goddamn pessimistic it's unnerving

Despite their shifting views, the Roman Catholic Church are not necessarily the one true church of the world, especially if its tainted with sin. I'm glad that there is a continuing slow decline of the influence of the Roman Catholic Church.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;46355783]Is there anything you can't do to shit on the Pope? Seriously, every goddamn thread that he does something positive, you have to shoot it down. You're so goddamn pessimistic it's unnerving[/QUOTE] What did he do here? He reaffirmed an old, preexisting doctrine of his church. And this doctrine was nothing more than a rejection of deluded pseudoscience. If you want to pat him on the back for that, than be my guest. I'm not impressed.

[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;46354985]Pope Francis is awesome. Science and the Bible really don't contradict each other unless you take things literally. As a Christian myself I've always held the view that science is a more in-depth explanation as to what occurred in the Bible. God's tool. We're not all thick-skulled ignorant people that take everything in the Bible to be [I]literally[/I] true, and I sincerely apologize for those sort of people.[/QUOTE] Perhaps you should do an analysis of the various books of the Bible to determine the veracious nature of these books of the Bible. How can you actually know that these things occurred in the past? Well you'd use something like Josephus who does mention Jesus Christ, but he is partly contaminated by manuscript writers who added that "Jesus rose from the dead." There is some corroborating archaeological evidence (that too-archaeological material would require interpretation to see whether it does meet the writings of the new testament). But like most things in ancient history there's generally (not all) a lack of evidence to even prove anything- they are just generally inferred and suggestive evidence that perhaps give us a glimpse of the ancient past. But if you're just using the Bible to affirm and elevate your own spiritual self, then so be it. I couldn't care less.

[QUOTE=Sableye;46353240]evolution only counters the bible if you're a crackpot that takes the entire thing litterally, the catholic church's own position on the matter is that it shouldn't be taken litterally or [I]naturally[/I] as ken ham-head believes the #1 goal of the bible, to teach morals to live by, thus stories in the bible may be there to teach actual morals to live by.... [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] at least the church isn't as bad as india, where their newly elected leader really believes that the indian people once had genetics, space flight, advanced plastic surgery, and all kinds of other super-sciences but they forgot them[/QUOTE] but how is it a moral tale if we don't, you know, stone disobedient kids like it tells us to? offering a smorgasboard of ideas, some good and some bad, and picking the ones you like doesn't mean that there's a moral tale there [editline]28th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;46355109]No one even remotely believes this in any form of christian belief[/QUOTE] do you not know what communion both symbolizes, and is supposed to be? it's supposed to be eating the flesh of jesus and drinking his blood, symbolic? sure, but it wasn't always meant by that.

How daft do you have to believe to deny evolution or the big bang theory as if it "disproves god" it doesn't disprove god period. Why would that disprove ANYTHING? if anything, you could easily say "God caused the big bang" "god was the big bang, he was creation" and no one sane would care because to anyone that is religious or accepts religion, that's like, totally sane and stuff.

This isn't all that surprising. Remember that the fellow who thought up the big bang theory first was a roman catholic priest.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;46356360]This isn't all that surprising. Remember that the fellow who thought up the big bang theory first was a roman catholic priest.[/QUOTE] George lemaire(spelling?) was not the first, or the only person involved in that theory.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46356512]George lemaire(spelling?) was not the first, or the only person involved in that theory.[/QUOTE] Of course he wasn't the only one but I think it's splitting hairs to say he wasn't the first.

[QUOTE=Explosions;46355141][url=http://www.catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist]The Catholics do.[/url][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;46355109]No one even remotely believes this in any form of christian belief[/QUOTE] The truth is that Catholics believe it "transmutes" into flesh and blood when it is being consumed. It is not when the priest waves his hand.

Well you must be dumb to classify Catholic church as Christian they are more like the sin's church. They've been weird since day 1.

[QUOTE=Carlton Dance;46357931]Well you must be dumb to classify Catholic church as Christian they are more like the sin's church. They've been weird since day 1.[/QUOTE] The Catholic Church is the oldest branch of Christianity and was founded during the Roman Empire. They're literally the definition of Christian and are what everybody thinks when you say Christianity.

[QUOTE=Deng;46357938]The Catholic Church is the oldest branch of Christianity and was founded during the Roman Empire. They're literally the definition of Christian and are what everybody thinks when you say Christianity.[/QUOTE]Yeah they call them self that but we all know that they are not. They are greedy bastard that just want power. Not sure which Pope who said it but around 1600 century the Pope said god doesn't exist... I would never classify them as Christians TODAY. They were probably legitimate in the beginning but they aren't it now and hasn't been it for centuries.

[QUOTE=Carlton Dance;46357956]Yeah they call them self that but we all know that they are not. They are greedy bastard that just want power. Not sure which Pope who said it but around 1600 century the Pope said god doesn't exist...[/quote] This never happened. [quote]I would never classify them as Christians TODAY. They were probably legitimate in the beginning but they aren't it now and hasn't been it for awhile.[/QUOTE] The Catholic Church is the largest and oldest church. It is still legitimate today as it was 2000 years ago, and despite the damage of the reformations, religious wars, modernity, etc it is still going pretty strong and in much better shape than the other churches. Catholics know how to do things right. The worst way to do Christianity is in the churches set up in the United States like baptists and mormons, most of whom are insane shouting people who ignore centuries of tradition and change to accommodate and build future society in favour of relying on individual interpretations of the bible and taking it literally.

[QUOTE=Deng;46357975]This never happened. The Catholic Church is the largest and oldest church. It is still legitimate today as it was 2000 years ago, and despite the damage of the reformations, religious wars, modernity, etc it is still going pretty strong and in much better shape than the other churches. Catholics know how to do things right. The worst way to do Christianity is in the churches set up in the United States like baptists and mormons, most of whom are insane shouting people who ignore centuries of tradition and change to accommodate and build future society in favour of relying on individual interpretations of the bible and taking it literally.[/QUOTE]I can't recall the name of the book I read about the Pope saying that. And as I stated before they were probably legitimate in the begin and but around the 15th century they started to fuck up and example sell forgiveness and the priests just wanted more power. It was then the leaders started to ruin the church. These days it shouldn't even be called a church it should be called a business. The leaders are so greedy. Though the ordinary catholics are legitimate christians, it's just the leadership that is corrupt and messed up. Off topic: I'd really like to know who came up with the idea that we should use cross jesus was crucified on as a symbol for Christianity. It would be the same as using an ak-47 as a symbol for freedom. And if I recall correctly it said somewhere in the bible that we shall not have any religious symbols.

[QUOTE=Deng;46357975]This never happened. [/QUOTE] Regardless, the Catholic Church has been filled with corruption over the years. Go look up the "Vatican Archives". The did a lot of nasty stuff. Oh, and I would appreciate it if you could also look up the Spanish Inquisition. And the more hidden motives of the Crusades, because guess what? They didn't start the wars solely for religious reasons [QUOTE=Deng;46357975] The Catholic Church is the largest and oldest church. It is still legitimate today as it was 2000 years ago, and despite the damage of the reformations, religious wars, modernity, etc it is still going pretty strong and in much better shape than the other churches. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm sure it is. Go do some history research, Catholicism was never even a word until around 100 AD, after all of the books of the Bible were written. Many of the Catholic beliefs are unfounded, the whole "hail mary" is found nowhere in the Bible (not to mention it's directly [I]against[/I] core teachings. Catholicism does not represent Christianity as a whole. [QUOTE=Deng;46357975] Catholics know how to do things right. The worst way to do Christianity is in the churches set up in the United States like baptists and mormons, most of whom are insane shouting people who ignore centuries of tradition and change to accommodate and build future society in favour of relying on individual interpretations of the bible and taking it literally.[/QUOTE] Mormons aren't Christians. [QUOTE=Deng;46357975] who ignore centuries of tradition [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Deng;46357975] in favour of relying on individual interpretations of the bible and taking it literally [/QUOTE] ok mate. i believ u. (NOT)

Not to mention they also ransacked other religions (like the Greek Orthodox Church at Constantinople). The person who said the Roman Catholic Church is more like a business is reasonably correct.

Wow an actual Anti-Papist. getting real 17th century in here. I can barely stop myself pitching a council of trent in my pants

[QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;46358105]Regardless, the Catholic Church has been filled with corruption over the years. Go look up the "Vatican Archives". The did a lot of nasty stuff. Oh, and I would appreciate it if you could also look up the Spanish Inquisition. And the more hidden motives of the Crusades, because guess what? They didn't start the wars solely for religious reasons[/QUOTE] This is a lot to ask of an institution that has survived for twenty centuries. Of course the Catholic Church has committed errors in the past. The strength of the church is its ability to adapt to changing circumstances and to admit faults. The reason the reformation ultimately did not dislodged it is because it undertook reforms and banned corrupt practices. Also the inquisition didn't kill as many people as you would believe. Out of people who went to trial, about 2% of them were executed. The Crusades? What do you mean by hidden motives? The primary purpose of them was to both relieve pressure on the Byzantine Empire and to secure access to the holy places of Christendom. People didn't go into them for economic or political gain because most people ended up losing many of their material possessions or having enemies back home seize your lands. [quote]Yeah, I'm sure it is. Go do some history research, Catholicism was never even a word until around 100 AD, after all of the books of the Bible were written. Many of the Catholic beliefs are unfounded, the whole "hail mary" is found nowhere in the Bible (not to mention it's directly [I]against[/I] core teachings. Catholicism does not represent Christianity as a whole.[/quote] Catholicism is the direct continuation of early Christian communities in the Roman Empire. Also the point is that you don't rely on the bible for everything. While the bible is integral, it is not the end-all and be-all of Catholicism. [quote]ok mate. i believ u. (NOT)[/quote] You cannot be a Christian if you think the bible has all the answers. Your community, the church, the collected philosophical and theological works (such as from Augustine and Aquinas), tradition, the saints, religious festivals and holidays, sacred places, are all of immense importance. Reading the bible by itself without putting it into context of all of these things ends up with people missing the point. [QUOTE=Carlton Dance;46357997]And as I stated before they were probably legitimate in the begin and but around the 15th century they started to fuck up and example sell forgiveness and the priests just wanted more power. It was then the leaders started to ruin the church. These days it shouldn't even be called a church it should be called a business. The leaders are so greedy. Though the ordinary catholics are legitimate christians, it's just the leadership that is corrupt and messed up.[/quote] The leadership has reformed itself and changed multiple times over the centuries. If you think that the 15th century practice of selling indulgences is the start of bad things (not like how Arianism was violently suppressed in the 5th century) or that priests didn't demand power beforehand (such as in the 10th century before the Cluniac reform movements) then you don't know very much about European or Catholic history. Today the church still has its problems, but that's not to say its wholly corrupt and unaccountable. Many countries suffer from the same problems as the Catholic church, but that's not a reason to go around suddenly dismantling countries. [quote]I'd really like to know who came up with the idea that we should use cross jesus was crucified on as a symbol for Christianity. It would be the same as using an ak-47 as a symbol for freedom. And if I recall correctly it said somewhere in the bible that we shall not have any religious symbols.[/QUOTE] That's because the crucifix doesn't have divine power. People don't worship it, which is what the commandment banning that practice is all about.

Actually you can rely on the Bible for all the answers because it's "God's word." Catholicism is not a direct continuation of early Christian communities at all- where's your proof. Also the crusades were a big blunder, and you can see that it also went against the Greek Orthodox religion. 'Saints' are just a recognition from the church- not from God himself. Most traditions of the Roman Catholic Church had been reformed. Reading the Bible from a more protestant perspective is doable because it is not contaminated by some dumb church doctrines/traditions (like that Mary was a divine saint lol (she was a sinner like the rest of us)) that have nothing to do with the Bible. The Bible essentially has the highest authoritative backing which is God- traditions/festivals (are you talking about Easter and such? those were formerly pagan festivals) that were constructed by the R.C.C only have an institution basis, not God (well they claim to have some sort of backing by God but no proof mate)

[QUOTE=shackleford;46364666]Actually you can rely on the Bible for all the answers because it's "God's word."[/QUOTE] The bible is technically a library of books since it consists of many books written at different times by different people and strung together. The bible is not a answer to all of life's problems. Each gospel, for example, was inspired by God and written down in the language of the original intended audience. Due to the fact that these original audiences are vastly different from people today, there are many references that are specific to the people who lived at the time the books were written. different books of the bible were meant to be understood as various forms of literature. These include things like poems, parables, songs, stories, and events. Therefore, the Bible is a library of books not written directly by God, but written to relate to people thousands of years ago and updated periodically to apply and make sense to people today.

[QUOTE=Deng;46358706]This is a lot to ask of an institution that has survived for twenty centuries. Of course the Catholic Church has committed errors in the past. The strength of the church is its ability to adapt to changing circumstances and to admit faults. The reason the reformation ultimately did not dislodged it is because it undertook reforms and banned corrupt practices. [/QUOTE] The reason the Reformation never reunited with Catholicism is because of corrupt practices that continue today. The whole "hail mary" reeks of worshiping human beings, and not in the good way like Jesus. Worshiping a sinner. [QUOTE=Deng;46358706] Also the inquisition didn't kill as many people as you would believe. Out of people who went to trial, about 2% of them were executed. The Crusades? What do you mean by hidden motives? The primary purpose of them was to both relieve pressure on the Byzantine Empire and to secure access to the holy places of Christendom. People didn't go into them for economic or political gain because most people ended up losing many of their material possessions or having enemies back home seize your lands. [/QUOTE] You're passing people off as statistics now! 2% is an insane amount. That's 2 out of 100 people, perhaps small as a number, but that's a lot of people. Actual [I]people[/I], not robots or zombies, people. You're trying to justify murder. And the Spanish Inquisition was violent, they bashed and tortured people. Oh, and by the way, go actually look up the reasons for the Crusades by the Papacy. It was partly an attempt at grabbing foreign land. The entire modern Church is responsible for this, we can't make up excuses. [QUOTE=Deng;46358706] Catholicism is the direct continuation of early Christian communities in the Roman Empire. [/QUOTE] Also the point is that you don't rely on the bible for everything. While the bible is integral, it is not the end-all and be-all of Catholicism. [/QUOTE] Key word: Catholicism. Protestants are different. [QUOTE=Deng;46358706] You cannot be a Christian if you think the bible has all the answers. Your community, the church, the collected philosophical and theological works (such as from Augustine and Aquinas), tradition, the saints, religious festivals and holidays, sacred places, are all of immense importance. Reading the bible by itself without putting it into context of all of these things ends up with people missing the point. [/QUOTE] WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA. Are you joking? PLEASE tell me you're joking. Good grief, talk about stupidity. I'm hoping that this is just a case of you wording it incorrectly, because none of what you just said makes any sense. I don't even know how to RESPOND to this. Even an atheist who just walked in off the street would think you're crazy. Clarify your point, please. And don't tell me you're justifying the bloodshed of the Crusades, all of the brutality committed by the Spanish Inquistion, all of the corruption and child molestation because "The Church knows best". You're justifying murder, rape, abuse, and you're giving anyone anywhere in ANY religion an excuse to justify even worse things. [QUOTE=Deng;46358706] The leadership has reformed itself and changed multiple times over the centuries. If you think that the 15th century practice of selling indulgences is the start of bad things (not like how Arianism was violently suppressed in the 5th century) or that priests didn't demand power beforehand (such as in the 10th century before the Cluniac reform movements) then you don't know very much about European or Catholic history. Today the church still has its problems, but that's not to say its wholly corrupt and unaccountable. Many countries suffer from the same problems as the Catholic church, but that's not a reason to go around suddenly dismantling countries. [/QUOTE] Because the Catholic Church's hierarchy continues to get involved in corruption frequently. It's only changing now because people got tired of it and left, and have been leaving more and more over the years. Also, I would advise you actually check to see if your bishops/nuns/whatever that have told you all this are correct or not. If you are correct, you will have nothing to lose. But at the same time, I would also advise you to check to see if anything you find is a rumor or actual truth.

[QUOTE=shackleford;46364666]Actually you can rely on the Bible for all the answers because it's "God's word." Catholicism is not a direct continuation of early Christian communities at all- where's your proof.[/QUOTE] St Peter is traditionally viewed as the first bishop of Rome (pope), appointed by Jesus. As for the bible containing all the answers, this is again to understand it without context. If you take it by itself, then you are going to pick and choose what you like. [quote]'Saints' are just a recognition from the church- not from God himself. Most traditions of the Roman Catholic Church had been reformed. Reading the Bible from a more protestant perspective is doable because it is not contaminated by some dumb church doctrines/traditions (like that Mary was a divine saint lol (she was a sinner like the rest of us)) that have nothing to do with the Bible. The Bible essentially has the highest authoritative backing which is God- traditions/festivals (are you talking about Easter and such? those were formerly pagan festivals) that were constructed by the R.C.C only have an institution basis, not God (well they claim to have some sort of backing by God but no proof mate)[/quote] This has little understanding of Christian history, let alone that of the Catholic church. The fact that Catholicism shares similarities with Pagan religious practices is again missing the point. There is a fallacy that because it shares some things with Paganism, it is therefore "corrupted" or "not-christian". The origin for a practice does not matter, but it is the merits of the practice itself that matters. [QUOTE=EpicRandomnes;46366460]The reason the Reformation never reunited with Catholicism is because of corrupt practices that continue today. The whole "hail mary" reeks of worshiping human beings, and not in the good way like Jesus. Worshiping a sinner. You're passing people off as statistics now! 2% is an insane amount. That's 2 out of 100 people, perhaps small as a number, but that's a lot of people. Actual [I]people[/I], not robots or zombies, people. You're trying to justify murder. And the Spanish Inquisition was violent, they bashed and tortured people.[/quote] Yes, but it wasn't as widespread a practice as many people commonly believe. I don't see what's wrong with putting people as statistics because how else are you to compare things? Protestant countries killed just as many Catholics (indeed, anti-Catholicism was still prevalent countries such as Britain as late as the 20th century), Communists killed even more. This is not to say I don't condemn the practice of killing people for being different, but the impact of the inquisition has been frequently exaggerated. [quote]Oh, and by the way, go actually look up the reasons for the Crusades by the Papacy. It was partly an attempt at grabbing foreign land. The entire modern Church is responsible for this, we can't make up excuses.[/quote] Do you have a source for this? Again, most of the people who went on crusade ended up losing their fortunes or lives. [quote]Are you joking?[/quote] How am I justifying any of those things? I said none of those things. Stop making things up and read what I said again carefully. I'm not giving this a proper reply because what you just said above corresponds in literally no way to what I said in the quote. [quote]Also, I would advise you actually check to see if your bishops/nuns/whatever that have told you all this are correct or not. If you are correct, you will have nothing to lose. But at the same time, I would also advise you to check to see if anything you find is a rumor or actual truth.[/QUOTE] A great deal of what is said about the Catholic Church is rumour. It's a massive ancient organisation that has been involved in numerous scandals and affairs, but that's to be expected when its that old and that big. It covers well over a billion souls, and to say that the whole institution is corrupt is stupidity. When I go to check out most of these rumours, they tend to be exaggerated or wholly invented. The worst kind of people think that Catholicism is against science, or made the middle ages stagnant, or that every clergyman is a pedophile.