Arizona religious freedom bill riles LGBT right supporters - Polidicks

If this ends up getting signed into law, do any other AZ facepunchers plan on going to a sit-in?

Freedom for the typical republican, as has been said before, means the freedom to oppress and subjugate others.

DISCLAIMER: I think gays should have equal rights But I don't get the point of this law. Businesses have the right to refuse service, why pass a law to specify why you are refusing service when you can just say "I'm refusing service because get out it's my business that's why"? Or does a business have to say why they're kicking you out?

[QUOTE=_Kent_;44010137]If this ends up getting signed into law, do any other AZ facepunchers plan on going to a sit-in?[/QUOTE] Already going to the one on Monday. [editline]23rd February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=SomeENG;44011717]DISCLAIMER: I think gays should have equal rights But I don't get the point of this law. Businesses have the right to refuse service, why pass a law to specify why you are refusing service when you can just say "I'm refusing service because get out it's my business that's why"? Or does a business have to say why they're kicking you out?[/QUOTE] Instead of rating him dumb, how's about we actually explain this? It's like this: If a business can't refuse business to someone on the basis of their skin-color or their disabilities, why should they be able to deny someone business based on their sexual orientation? You can't use the excuse that it "violates their religious freedoms" because unless their business is religiously-based (in which case, the denial of service is protected under the 1st Amendment. I know it sucks, but J-Date and Christian Mingle and businesses of their kind are religiously-tailored) it makes no sense to allow them to blatantly violate other people's rights. You're covered under the 14th Amendment against discrimination of any kind, and it's being cited more and more in cases against LGBTQ discrimination. [editline]23rd February 2014[/editline] If you're kicking someone out of your business because you think they're shady or they are being disrespectful, that's fine. If you're kicking someone out of your business because you think they're homosexual, they're of a different race, they are of a mixed-race marriage, or anything of the sort, you are in the wrong.

[QUOTE=ewitwins;44012137]Already going to the one on Monday. [editline]23rd February 2014[/editline] Instead of rating him dumb, how's about we actually explain this? It's like this: If a business can't refuse business to someone on the basis of their skin-color or their disabilities, why should they be able to deny someone business based on their sexual orientation? You can't use the excuse that it "violates their religious freedoms" because unless their business is religiously-based (in which case, the denial of service is protected under the 1st Amendment. I know it sucks, but J-Date and Christian Mingle and businesses of their kind are religiously-tailored) it makes no sense to allow them to blatantly violate other people's rights. You're covered under the 14th Amendment against discrimination of any kind, and it's being cited more and more in cases against LGBTQ discrimination. [editline]23rd February 2014[/editline] If you're kicking someone out of your business because you think they're shady or they are being disrespectful, that's fine. If you're kicking someone out of your business because you think they're homosexual, they're of a different race, they are of a mixed-race marriage, or anything of the sort, you are in the wrong.[/QUOTE] But how can you PROVE that's why you're kicking them out? If the point of this was ACTUALLY to remove gays they could just refuse service without giving a reason or just making some bullshit up. I don't understand the point of making this law when they can already just kick you out "because I feel like it" or "I don't like your shoes". Really my point is that this law is to say "we hate gays", and that's all. I was also just pointing out that this law is really pointless if someone wanted to remove gays/race/gender from their place. Example: *bigot"hey you" *suspected gay "what" *bigot"get out my store" *suspected gay"why?" *bigot "because I have the right to refuse service, that's why. Also I don't like your shoes"

[quote]Similar religious protection legislation has been introduced in Ohio[/quote] news to me considering the state's ban on same-sex marriage is in the gray area after being overturned last month in court, and there is a strong possibility of there being an equal marriage option on the ballot next November

[QUOTE=SomeENG;44012237]But how can you PROVE that's why you're kicking them out? If the point of this was ACTUALLY to remove gays they could just refuse service without giving a reason or just making some bullshit up. I don't understand the point of making this law when they can already just kick you out "because I feel like it" or "I don't like your shoes".[/QUOTE] Pretty sure "I don't like your shoes" and "because lol" wouldn't be counted as reasonable reasons to remove someone. And how do you prove they are kicking you out for "having the gay"? Well, were you causing trouble? Did they ignore you until you did something that might make them think you were gay? I'm sure other customers can vouch for you, seeing as they are witnesses and all that.

so... how long until arizona has this? [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/1943_Colored_Waiting_Room_Sign.jpg[/IMG] except the gay version.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;44012556]Pretty sure "I don't like your shoes" and "because lol" wouldn't be counted as reasonable reasons to remove someone. And how do you prove they are kicking you out for "having the gay"? Well, were you causing trouble? Did they ignore you until you did something that might make them think you were gay? I'm sure other customers can vouch for you, seeing as they are witnesses and all that.[/QUOTE] Did some Google searching and I've found that "they stink" is a valid excuse, and is also an opinion. I imagine a court hearing would be something like.. *owner "They stank" *judge "and the defense says?" *lawyer "he didn't think I stunk" *owner's lawyer "can he prove it?" Witnesses say "they didn't stink" Owner says "I feel as if they did and its my store" Case closed. Much like "I felt my life was threatened so I shot the robber" Pointless law, you can kick people out for smelling bad, and how someone smells is an opinion. Last time I checked an opinion is not a fact, so valid excuse for kicking ANYONE out? Unless the owner medically has no sense of smell?

[QUOTE=SomeENG;44012915]Did some Google searching and I've found that "they stink" is a valid excuse, and is also an opinion. I imagine a court hearing would be something like.. *owner "They stank" *judge "and the defense says?" *lawyer "he didn't think I stunk" *owner's lawyer "can he prove it?" Witnesses say "they didn't stink" Owner says "I feel as if they did and its my store" Case closed. Much like "I felt my life was threatened so I shot the robber" Pointless law, you can kick people out for smelling bad, and how someone smells is an opinion. Last time I checked an opinion is not a fact, so valid excuse for kicking ANYONE out? Unless the owner medically has no sense of smell?[/QUOTE] Well, that sucks. Thanks to prior cases it pretty much is possible then. That law is fucking stupid.

What I don't understand is, say you ban Gays from your restaurant, how are you going to know someone's Gay to begin with? I mean, unless they start making out in public, you'd have no idea. You can't kick two guys out of a bar just because they happened to walk in together. You'd have no idea on their preference for the most part unless you asked them which quite frankly would be kind of weird. I don't think it's normal to ask every person who walks in the front door what their preference is when you shouldn't need to know that in the first place.

Maybe they're so sheltered they think all gays behave like Mr Slave or something g

[QUOTE=TheMrFailz;44013141]What I don't understand is, say you ban Gays from your restaurant, how are you going to know someone's Gay to begin with? I mean, unless they start making out in public, you'd have no idea. You can't kick two guys out of a bar just because they happened to walk in together. You'd have no idea on their preference for the most part unless you asked them which quite frankly would be kind of weird. I don't think it's normal to ask every person who walks in the front door what their preference is when you shouldn't need to know that in the first place.[/QUOTE] I think this image I took five seconds to edit in paint sums it up quite well and would be about as effective. [IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/29bh5sg.jpg[/IMG] What I don't understand is, say you ban [del]Gays[/del] GUNS from your restaurant, how are you going to know someone's [del]Gay[/del] armed to begin with? I mean, unless they start [del]making[/del] bustin caps out in public, you'd have no idea.

[QUOTE=Krooms;43997554]is it really that big of a deal? It's saying that if you own a business you have the right to deny who you choose? Why not, it's their place.[/QUOTE] Is not Selling to the everyone kinda going against the point of... you know... opening it to the public?

"But these people having rights infringes on [I]my[/I] rights!"

[QUOTE=kitthehacker;44014477]"But these people having rights infringes on [I]my[/I] rights!"[/QUOTE] but but but its my lobby-dollar given right to infringe on your right to be infringed upon! right?

My boyfriend and I are hoping this doesn't go through, can't imagine being led out of a store/restaurant for being gay

Although I disagree with this bill for lots of reasons, being gay being one of them, I don't really see why people feel the need to show of their sexuality anyway? Does a gay man really need to go telling everyone about his sexual orientation, or can't he keep that sort of stuff to himself unless he's actively looking for a partner?

[QUOTE=noneshallpass;43998443]I really don't know what to say other than for 100 years, people of African descent were not allowed to participate in temple ceremonies. And that practice in itself is completely absurd.[/QUOTE] I'd argue that the fact that they changed that is a good thing but I know nothing of mormonism.

[QUOTE=Noah Gibbs;43998357]I just want to point out mormons are not anti-gay. There are old rules that don't allow you to be gay and a member of the church, but we openly accept gay people as complete equals. Plus I see these old rules to be changed in the next 20 years.[/QUOTE] You say this yet prop 8 was basically funded by mormons [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/us/politics/15marriage.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0[/url]

I think if it's their business, they can refuse service to you for any reason. At the end of the day, it's their business, and if they want to loose business by discriminating against customers and get bad publicity, that's up to them.

all places technically can refuse the right to serve anyone no matter what race/sex/sexual orientation. saying the line "we refuse the right to serve you" legally protects the place from getting sued.

[QUOTE=mastfire;44018982]all places technically can refuse the right to serve anyone no matter what race/sex/sexual orientation. saying the line "we refuse the right to serve you" legally protects the place from getting sued.[/QUOTE] Are you completely sure about that? A black man walks in and they say "we refuse the right to serve you" and he simply has no way of recourse? I'm fairly certain you can't refuse service on the basis of race in any civilized country, but I might just be naive.

you can't give a reason to refuse service. if you do you can't be legal protected. just like how employers don't tell you why your not hired and say "your are not qualified for the position".

as a business owner you are guaranteeing service to anyone (who's legally allowed etc., although even this is not the case for hospitals/churches/other things) hate a large group of people? don't run a business because you will have to deal with all types of them.

[QUOTE=mastfire;44019317]you can't give a reason to refuse service. if you do you can't be legal protected. just like how employers don't tell you why your not hired and say "your are not qualified for the position".[/QUOTE] Well, if you refuse service to a certain demographic (in a very clear cut way), wouldn't someone be able to sue you even though you didn't explicitly say "I won't serve you because you're black"? As long as they can prove in court that they (and many others) were refused on the basis of their race, does it matter whether you state it or not when refusing them?

it does because the people that you refuse service to can't touch you in court. the refuse the right to serve can go so many ways. for example your hair is red, sorry i can't serve you.

[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;44017881]I think if it's their business, they can refuse service to you for any reason. At the end of the day, it's their business, and if they want to loose business by discriminating against customers and get bad publicity, that's up to them.[/QUOTE] I think it's more to do with the fact that this legislation is directed at gay people specifically.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;43998501]Why do the intolerant think the intolerance of intolerance is the worst intolerance possible Yeah that's actually a legitimate question I'm not just playing with words[/QUOTE] because they're stupid ignorant assholes.

[QUOTE=mastfire;44019472]it does because the people that you refuse service to can't touch you in court. the refuse the right to serve can go so many ways. for example your hair is red, sorry i can't serve you.[/QUOTE] Well, what does this legislature change, then?