National Defense Authorization Act Discussion Thread - Polidicks

lol LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States. So they admit that aliens exist?

[QUOTE=tomatmann;33567237]lol LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States. So they admit that aliens exist?[/QUOTE] My sarcasm detector is broken, but I assume your joking. Just in case you aren't, read this: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_%28law%29[/url]

Since the bill explicitly exempts United States citizens from the detainment policy, I have no problem with it. How many "home grown" terrorists have been arrested in the past year, accused of being n contact with al-Qaeda and plotting terrorist attacks in the US? If someone is working with a group we are at war with, they are enemies of the state. And you know what? All these people screaming that America is going downhill and we're losing freedoms and liberities every day and that if we don't do something wie'll be living in 1984: [B]START PAYING ATTENTION IN HISTORY CLASS. [/b] 1798: [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts]Alien and Sedition Acts[/b][/url] signed into law. Made it a federal crime to publish "false, scandalous, and malicious writing" against the government or certain officials. 1861: [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_States#Suspension_during_the_Civil_War]President Lincoln suspends habeas corpus[/b][/url] 1917: [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917]Espionage Act of 1917[/url][/b] signed into law. Made it a federal crime, punishible by death or by imprisonment for not more than 30 years or both, to do anything that could "convey information with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the armed forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies." 1918: [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918]Sedition Act of 1918[/url][/b] signed into law. Updated the language of the Espionage Act of 1917 to cover a much borader range of offenses, including "disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language" about the United States government, its military, or war efforts. Many anti-war activists were prosecuted under this law because they protested against World War I

[QUOTE=tomatmann;33567237]lol LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States. So they admit that aliens exist?[/QUOTE] Alien doesn't always mean extraterrestrial.

[QUOTE=seano12;33564307]Move to Canada as soon as you can people! [editline]4th December 2011[/editline] Switzerland would even be better. You can legally pirate for personal use, and the scenery is wonderful.[/QUOTE] Piracy is legal in the Netherlands too! [editline]4th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=tomatmann;33567237]lol LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States. So they admit that aliens exist?[/QUOTE] Alien simply means not native. Never heard of the song "Englishman in New York"?

[QUOTE=ripple3000;33567176] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Reporting a moderator. Really smart move." - Swebonny))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Move over Einstein and Hawking, this guy's a genius.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." Comes to mind. In order to beat "terrorists" you scrifice everything your nation once stood for

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;33567318]Since the bill explicitly exempts United States citizens from the detainment policy, I have no problem with it. How many "home grown" terrorists have been arrested in the past year, accused of being n contact with al-Qaeda and plotting terrorist attacks in the US? If someone is working with a group we are at war with, they are enemies of the state.[/QUOTE] I still have a problem with it. Just because they are enemies of the state doesn't mean they aren't human beings. I'm of the belief that even if they're trying to kill us, we shouldn't stoop low to their standards and hold them hostage. Everyone - even the most horrendous murderers - deserve a speedy trial, and to do anything else is a blatant violation of the Sixth Amendment. This is more aimed at the indefinite detention bits, of course. I think we should go after terrorists on our soil, but treat them as human beings.

[QUOTE=Hardpoint Nomad;33567426]Move over Einstein and Hawking, this guy's a genius.[/QUOTE] Poor guy can't even defend himself. Still, his situation itself is pretty comical, I must admit.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;33567318] And you know what? All these people screaming that America is going downhill and we're losing freedoms and liberities every day and that if we don't do something wie'll be living in 1984: [B]START PAYING ATTENTION IN HISTORY CLASS. [/b] 1798: [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts]Alien and Sedition Acts[/b][/url] signed into law. Made it a federal crime to publish "false, scandalous, and malicious writing" against the government or certain officials. 1861: [b]President Lincoln suspends habeas corpus[/b] 1917: [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917]Espionage Act of 1917[/url][/b] signed into law. Made it a federal crime, punishible by death or by imprisonment for not more than 30 years or both, to do anything that could "convey information with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the armed forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies." 1918: [b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918]Sedition Act of 1918[/url][/b] signed into law. Updated the language of the Espionage Act of 1917 to cover a much borader range of offenses, including "disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language" about the United States government, its military, or war efforts. Many anti-war activists were prosecuted under this law because they protested against World War I Many anti-war activists were prosecuted under this law for conducting anti-war protests, as they were found to be negatively affecting troop moral.[/QUOTE] This. A lot of Americans need a wake up call when it comes to historical perspective, because the modern American seems to blow every little problem they face wildly out of proportion. For example, everyone seems to be treating this current economic crisis we're facing as some new, unheard-of terrible thing. Like we're just on the brink of another Great Depression, or that our country is going to economically collapse. Well, you might want to learn about the [B]34[/B] financial crises this country faced [B]before[/B] the Great Depression. And then you should read up on the [B]14[/B] other recessions we've had since the Great Depression. What I'm trying to say, is that if you're [I]legitimately[/I] considering moving to Canada over [I]any[/I] of this, you should go back in time and tell your ancestors to move to Canada, because they were either facing a crisis a shitload like this one or in one that was [B]worse[/B]. And remember! Life was overall shittier back then too! You didn't live as long, you were poorer, you didn't have (depending on how far back you go) Internet, TV, Video Games, Refrigerators, Highways, Cars, and you probably couldn't read! We have all that, but, man, it's just so tough being a modern American! I think I might move to Canada too.

[QUOTE=Spooter;33567793]This. A lot of Americans need a wake up call when it comes to historical perspective, because the modern American seems to blow every little problem they face wildly out of proportion. For example, everyone seems to be treating this current economic crisis we're facing as some new, unheard-of terrible thing. Like we're just on the brink of another Great Depression, or that our country is going to economically collapse. Well, you might want to learn about the [B]34[/B] financial crises this country faced [B]before[/B] the Great Depression. And then you should read up on the [B]14[/B] other recessions we've had since the Great Depression. What I'm trying to say, is that if you're [I]legitimately[/I] considering moving to Canada over [I]any[/I] of this, you should go back in time and tell your ancestors to move to Canada, because they were either facing a crisis a shitload like this one or in one that was [B]worse[/B]. And remember! Life was overall shittier back then too! You didn't live as long, you were poorer, you didn't have (depending on how far back you go) Internet, TV, Video Games, Refrigerators, Highways, Cars, and you probably couldn't read! We have all that, but, man, it's just so tough being a modern American! I think I might move to Canada too.[/QUOTE] History, tends to slap you with its long hard cock.

I'm not too worried about this. Besides, I work for the gubment.

[QUOTE=Shiftyze;33566521][url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1144664?p=33532281&viewfull=1#post33532281[/url][/QUOTE] Doesn't sound like he directly actually says it, just "If we", and that he was asked to, never that he flat out did. He doesn't make too much sense though. Besides that, do you really think they would just take away all rights like that and get away with it easy? It didn't say that they did allow it to go after citizens and people still say it did, and were over-sensationalized about it... just imagine if it very directly did this. If anyone tried to be too direct with taking over, people would fuck them over really bad. if you truly believe the government would have the balls to take away all rights just like that, then you are a shallow, foolish, blind and paranoid tin foil hat wearing twit. Sure, there are some crazy ass people in power that believe in crazy ass things, but the government can't just flat out tablecloth your rights under you, and even if they did, and used the military to arrest civilians, there's no fucking way our soldiers will ever allow themselves to be used to take away freedom when that's the exact thing they're dying for.

[QUOTE=Shiftyze;33566521][url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1144664?p=33532281&viewfull=1#post33532281[/url][/QUOTE] He said they were asked. Show me a bill brought to the floor with the citizen clause removed.

[QUOTE=J!NX;33566142][h2](1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.[/h2] Are you guys like... illiterate and dumb or something?[/QUOTE] Later in the bill it also states that US Citizens may be detained if the Secretary of Defense allows it. The biggest issue with the bill is how it's worded to sound safe, but it really isn't.

[QUOTE=HyyperVyyper;33572828]Later in the bill it also states that US Citizens may be detained if the Secretary of Defense allows it. The biggest issue with the bill is how it's worded to sound safe, but it really isn't.[/QUOTE] The Secretary of Defense cannot have citizens detained by the military at will, he can elect persons that he believes would be in the best interest of national security to detain then submit a written request for waiver to congress who has to approve it. Basically its set up so that if a terrorist who is not linked to al queda, the taliban, or any other recognized major terrorist organisation can be detained by the military after due process of law. The reasons this was put into play is because of what happened at Ft. Hood, though in that instance the person was already in the military so he was already able to be detained by the military.

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;33567318][B]START PAYING ATTENTION IN HISTORY CLASS. [/b] [/QUOTE] I don't see how the fact that this has happened before makes anything better.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;33573792]I don't see how the fact that this has happened before makes anything better.[/QUOTE] It's about perspective. He cited those historical examples of things that are waaaay worse than this bill to show that it's not unprecedented and that people are over reacting.

[QUOTE=HyyperVyyper;33572828]Later in the bill it also states that US Citizens may be detained if the Secretary of Defense allows it. The biggest issue with the bill is how it's worded to sound safe, but it really isn't.[/QUOTE] yep because the government's concern is totally shitting on your rights and everyone in it is big and bad and evil. :downs:

[QUOTE=J!NX;33574299]yep because the government's concern is totally shitting on your rights and everyone in it is big and bad and evil. :downs:[/QUOTE] Damn right. :tinfoil:

[QUOTE=Spooter;33574246]It's about perspective. He cited those historical examples of things that are waaaay worse than this bill to show that it's not unprecedented and that people are over reacting.[/QUOTE] America: We're not as bad as we used to be!

[quote]) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or [b]pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda[/b]; and[/quote] thats way to fucking vague