Knifeman screams 'this is for Syria' in London tube machete attack - Polidicks

Can we stop waving our dicks about guns and get back to the matter at hand?

[QUOTE=Hezzy;49257893]Can we stop waving our dicks about guns and get back to the matter at hand?[/QUOTE] It's not completely out of place to talk about self-defense, weapon and gun laws.. The matter at hand is a religious nut-job who is probably not safe to ever walk freely. He's already guilty of multiple attempted murders and detained, so..

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;49255492]I will never understand how you guys are just okay with some person you don't know robbing all your shit and lubing up your ass. No wonder you guys can't even legally defend yourself lol. "The perpetrator doesn't deserve to die, he was a good boy he gun go to college, he go to church he good boy, so what he raped 3 people and sliced a guys throat, so what he good boy" Literally what we have to deal with in America when a young black gets shot for robbing a liquor store. edit: Doesn't even have to be black, people still bitch about it when their 19 year old kid gets shot in the head for robbing a liquor store.[/QUOTE] Just popping in to say that your stereotyping is disgusting and I'm mortified that 7 people agreed with the trash flowing out of your mouth. You must have a serious issue if you jump to being hostile and racist every time your "precious family heirlooms" (guns) are insulted.

He's being really silly alright. "Lol I bet you guys would let an intruder even lube you up" (c) cinnamonbunn "Around here people wanna kill you more than elsewhere" (c) cinnamonbun "Guns would have have stopped this case at hand from progressing as much as it did" (c) cinnamonbun And there's more where that came from. Pretty much all of his "points" refutable and/or explainable. Cinnamonbun doesn't even seem to understand that people were within their right to use deadly force on this knifeman, as would anyone in any country when someone tries to kill you.. Only difference being that in america, you can use deadly force much more freely right off the bat, without being concerned about "excessive" force, since, well.. the right to bear GUNS, supported by the number of GUNS in the country. It's only logical, but it has its implications, and it creates a society where, for example, the police are concerned about personal property thefts even less.

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;49255710]When the fuck did I say put a weapon into the murders hands? I said in the hands of a GOOD SAMARITAN.[/QUOTE] Serious question, how many terrorists/maniacs are shot by civilians? Its always said that a 'good Samaritan' will put him down but i have never heard of a case where that happens, it always ended by police.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49257919]It's not completely out of place to talk about self-defense, weapon and gun laws.. The matter at hand is a religious nut-job who is probably not safe to ever walk freely. He's already guilty of multiple attempted murders and detained, so..[/QUOTE] There is a scenario where a raging lunatic kills 15 people with a gun or leaves one person seriously injured. That's the gun arguement completed. Moving on...

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;49256888]Have you ever had your house robbed?[/QUOTE] Yeah, loads of times when I was growing up, my family lives in a really rough area. One time we got robbed when I was like 11 and they were so noisy it woke me up. I just lay there hearing this person banging and crashing round the house with no idea what to do, and then I couldn't sleep properly for years, I still have trouble sleeping actually, not sure if that's related. A few weeks later, they were caught having left their fingerprints everywhere, it was some drug addict struggling financially, who was drunk and could barely remember robbing us. He went to prison for a few years and probably got some help with his addictions, maybe the guys back on his feet by now, I don't know and I don't care. Another time, my dad and step mum were on holiday so it was just me and my brother looking after the house. They broke in by chiselling out the wood around a shitty old window, and just pulling the glass out, very professional. It was all very scary. Turned out to be someone living in a new estate that was just built right next to us, the person lived 5 minutes away. But if you think that it would have been okay for someone to go downstairs and shoot the person burgling my house... to end someones life because they made a load of bad decisions and got a shitty start (they got caught every time and this was always the case, it was never just greed)... That's insane to me. Also, our home insurance always covered everything we lost. It's expensive insurance though.

[media]http://youtu.be/6_dfT_8Smy4[/media] Got the same video but in youtube/media tag form OP

[QUOTE=Trumple;49255453]Because most of the time you'd have to be pretty self-important to think that someone is sneaking around your house specifically to attack YOU rather than take your keys and steal your nice car and maybe your laptop on the way out Most of the time, a stranger in your house is there to steal, rather than to physically harm. Of course, it's a terrifying ordeal, so if people were armed we'd probably see a lot more people panicking and shooting the would-be robber rather than phoning the police. And possessions are worth a lot less than a human life[/QUOTE] lol I love the detailed analysis of an intruders psyche and the way you pretend self defense is just self important paranoia. Newsflash, people that are trying to rob you aren't good people. They're typically drug addicts and common criminals, not single dad pacifists stealing to feed their children. People that break into your house can and will kill you, for example my friends who were recently killed in their apartment a month ago by someone breaking in to steal from them. In the real world, intruders aren't rational, they aren't nice, they aren't your friends and they don't give a shit about murdering you and your roommate despite whatever saccharine and empathetic views you may have. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] Being anti-gun is one thing, but anyone criticizing the concept of defending yourself on your own property needs a serious reality check.

But the citizens can't defend themselves without guns, so why did he choose a knife over buying a gun illegally?!

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;49256888]Have you ever had your house robbed?[/QUOTE] A friend of mine did. Several, in fact, and they were completely powerless to stop it, despite being gun owners with several fire-arms to defend themselves with. Wanna know why? [sp]They weren't home![/sp] Robberies do happen while people are at home, but they typically do it in such a fashion so that the home-owner doesn't even know they're there until they've left, and most would prefer to do it when you're not around to stop them. Those burglars are professionals who just want to steal shit, not get charges slapped on them. A bullet is evidence and a murder gets you all kinds of nasty attention. The people that WOULD try to do an armed robbery while you're home? Those are thugs. They're the kind of people who believe that fear and intimidation is how you earn people's respect. (something you can relate to, I'm sure) [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Flumbooze;49258464]But the citizens can't defend themselves without guns, so why did he choose a knife over buying a gun illegally?![/QUOTE] It's almost like it's [I]really damn hard[/I] to do in the UK, like there's something preventing them from being easily accessible...

Why are you discussing gun control in every mass attack thread, even when it's clear that it's completely irrelevant? People will always find ways to kill other people. A big and heavy truck driven into a tight crowd would cause more casualties than your average mass knifing or shooting. What then, vehicle control? It is clear that he didn't have access to guns, so he went down and started slicing instead. You can do that effectively with a kitchen knife. What then, ban all blades? Why can't you guys make a single gun control thread and discuss it at there? So we can actually discuss relevant things to the original article. Which in this case are bombing of muslim countries, integration, radicalization, even mass immigration, maybe even mental health care etc. Damn lunatics with your guns, you are.

[QUOTE=srobins;49258455]lol I love the detailed analysis of an intruders psyche and the way you pretend self defense is just self important paranoia. Newsflash, people that are trying to rob you aren't good people. They're typically drug addicts and common criminals, not single dad pacifists stealing to feed their children. People that break into your house can and will kill you, for example my friends who were recently killed in their apartment a month ago by someone breaking in to steal from them. In the real world, intruders aren't rational, they aren't nice, they aren't your friends and they don't give a shit about murdering you and your roommate despite whatever saccharine and empathetic views you may have. [editline]6th December 2015[/editline] Being anti-gun is one thing, but anyone criticizing the concept of defending yourself on your own property needs a serious reality check.[/QUOTE] You're making just as much assumptions of their psyche as them..? Or not exactly. You make no assumptions, and would potentially shoot them all the same, AS IS your right by the law. I'm not going to criticize that. I think it merely has its own implications, in both good and bad, and I couldn't even begin to make a comparison between that, and some other type of society, like the UK. (Both of which also share similarities, like the economic freedom.)

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;49258501]A friend of mine did. Several, in fact, and they were completely powerless to stop it, despite being gun owners with several fire-arms to defend themselves with. Wanna know why? [sp]They weren't home![/sp] Robberies do happen while people are at home, but they typically do it in such a fashion so that the home-owner doesn't even know they're there until they've left, and most would prefer to do it when you're not around to stop them. Those burglars are professionals who just want to steal shit, not get charges slapped on them. A bullet is evidence and a murder gets you all kinds of nasty attention. The people that WOULD try to do an armed robbery while you're home? Those are thugs. They're the kind of people who believe that fear and intimidation is how you earn people's respect. (something you can relate to, I'm sure)[/QUOTE] So the answer is, "No, I've never had my house/apartment broken into." I assume the same is true for your car as well. Basically then, you personally have had no real life experience with this matter. Thanks for sharing. Sucks for your friend, but the fact of the matter is that preparedness within reason never hurts. You have a right to defend your life, your family's lives, and your property. This is sensible, and your little quip at the end about fear and intimidation is horseshit. It's simple: don't start trouble, there won't be trouble. Don't break into my house/apartment/car, don't steal from me, don't try to intimidate me in the first place, don't threaten me... and-- guess what-- I don't have any reason to do anything to you. If people could follow these basic principles, there wouldn't be any problem. But the fact of the matter is they don't, and the ones that don't are generally assholes. You can either lay down and be a victim, or you can defend yourself and what is yours. And that's exactly how things should be. People shouldn't be afraid to stand up for themselves, belligerent jackasses shouldn't be protected or sympathized with, and the law needs to be on the side of the victims. Your priorities are fucked up and your life incredibly sheltered when you lack this kind of basic world experience and self-preservation instinct.

[QUOTE=Bat-shit;49258899]You're making just as much assumptions of their psyche as them..? Or not exactly. You make no assumptions, and would potentially shoot them all the same, AS IS your right by the law. I'm not going to criticize that. I think it merely has its own implications, in both good and bad, and I couldn't even begin to make a comparison between that, and some other type of society, like the UK. (Both of which also share similarities, like the economic freedom.)[/QUOTE] It's not necessarily that I make that assumption but that I understand that is the risk involved. If there's someone in my apartment at 3am, I don't know whether it's a meek homeless teen that needs money for his mother's medication or some strung out methhead, which is why you assume the worst and if they don't leave after a warning, too bad. It's not my responsibility to risk my life just to give a burglar the benefit of the doubt.

In case it hasn't been mentioned, an eyewitness who tried tackling the guy said it was a box cutter/Stanley knife and no machete was actually involved.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49256849]diseases which europeans would soon weaponize[/QUOTE] how the hell did they weaponise them? when and where? any examples?

[QUOTE=srobins;49258985]It's not necessarily that I make that assumption but that I understand that is the risk involved. If there's someone in my apartment at 3am, I don't know whether it's a meek homeless teen that needs money for his mother's medication or some strung out methhead, which is why you assume the worst and if they don't leave after a warning, too bad. It's not my responsibility to risk my life just to give a burglar the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE] Especially because it's the way the law works. Remember that.

[QUOTE=Govna;49258935]So the answer is, "No, I've never had my house/apartment broken into." I assume the same is true for your car as well. Basically then, you personally have had no real life experience with this matter. Thanks for sharing. Sucks for your friend, but the fact of the matter is that preparedness within reason never hurts. You have a right to defend your life, your family's lives, and your property. This is sensible, and your little quip at the end about fear and intimidation is horseshit. It's simple: don't start trouble, there won't be trouble. Don't break into my house/apartment/car, don't steal from me, don't try to intimidate me in the first place, don't threaten me... and-- guess what-- I don't have any reason to do anything to you. If people could follow these basic principles, there wouldn't be any problem. But the fact of the matter is they don't, and the ones that don't are generally assholes. You can either lay down and be a victim, or you can defend yourself and what is yours. And that's exactly how things should be. People shouldn't be afraid to stand up for themselves, belligerent jackasses shouldn't be protected or sympathized with, and the law needs to be on the side of the victims. Your priorities are fucked up and your life incredibly sheltered when you lack this kind of basic world experience and self-preservation instinct.[/QUOTE] I've lived in nice areas and not so nice areas. I remember in one of those not so nice areas, some old lady a few blocks from me got beaten and robbed in her own home and was sent to the hospital. What it boils down to for me is if someone breaks into my house and I point a gun at them I will expect them to vacate the premises. If they don't leave, they will get shot. I have no idea their intentions and I don't plan on waiting and finding out. There is no moral argument and I don't understand how this position is considered "immoral." Nobody is saying that the moment someone knocks on their house at night they are placing buckshot through the doors and windows.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49259609]how the hell did they weaponise them? when and where? any examples?[/QUOTE] smallpox blankets

[QUOTE=Rumbler;49254030]I am in desperate need for an head-in-the-sand apologist forum-resident to reconfirm this is not starting to become indicative of a deeper problem. Namely, the clashing cultures, and the resulting non-integration and social-segregation and tensions. MDeceiver? BDA maybe? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("I am in desperate need for you to stop shitposting lol" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE] That is a Maxof2SD tier ban right there. Guess BDA couldn't come up with a faux intellectual retort this time, like most of the time frankly enough. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Banned for hurting my feelings and also for shitposting" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;49259829]smallpox blankets[/QUOTE] i'm pretty sure those are a myth exaggerated from a single incident even then, smallpox blankets seem like a really inefficient and not really effective way of killing someone

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49257470]because most robbers are just desperate people who want to take your shit and leave. i don't disagree with shooting a guy coming through your door with a machete but i don't think stealing a TV should give you the death penalty either[/QUOTE] How about family heirlooms or the fact that a stranger busting into your home is a threat to your safety and your families safety? Not gonna say execution style killings are cool but if you die while the homeowner is trying to subdue you the homeowner should be guilt-free.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49259894]i'm pretty sure those are a myth exaggerated from a single incident even then, smallpox blankets seem like a really inefficient and not really effective way of killing someone[/QUOTE] This is a myth based on nothing. They didn't even know how Germs worked.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49259912]smallpox and a host of other european exclusive diseases killed a ton of people, it was both unintentional then somewhat intentional, depending on who you believe[/QUOTE] intentional? how exactly? any examples?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49259910]How about family heirlooms or the fact that a stranger busting into your home is a threat to your safety and your families safety? Not gonna say execution style killings are cool but if you die while the homeowner is trying to subdue you the homeowner should be guilt-free.[/QUOTE] But it isn't necessarily a threat to you though? I'm not disagreeing entirely there, but around here you can't just kill someone for jumping over your fence and snatching an object of seemingly low value, whereas in America you are perfectly in the right to. Or never mind "seemingly low" value. You could legally kill someone for stealing trashes on your property as bright as day. There should be certain laws to "protect" even criminals in self-defense situation, it's usually pretty reasonable. Or would you not want to convict the owner of a particularly poor trailer-type property who kills a bunch of drunk trespassing teenagers? Of course you'd want him convicted. But in fact, not much could be done about that, not without violating the freedom of gun ownership&self-defense too badly.

Most western nations of Europe are hurt because of irrational and too liberal politics of their governments. Right now this is not only problem of France, UK or Germany, because Europe has already been invaded by lots of human garbage akk suspended islamic terrorists, reffered to as "refugees" in many cases. No. These are suspended destroyers of my, our beautiful land, culture. I wish Europe could unite and introduce so needed real politics like: arming citizens, supporting catholicism over other religions (and agnosic says that), calling muslim terrorists muslims and not only "some terrorists", fortyfing not only external but also internal borders. Why internal? Because terrorists are already in Europe. I have nothing against welcoming people who are running from war, like many Syrian refugees. But I have a lot against current immigration politics which are really easy to exploit for potential terrorists. a lot against multi-cultural idea of society, and a lot against political correctness in media, which doesn't even allow call muslim muslim. Excuse me for long post, and maybe a bit emotional. But I am an european patriot. It doesn't matter if terrorists strike in Paris, London, Warsaw, Berlin. I do care about my own homeland, which is whole Europe.

[QUOTE=Knurr;49260407]Most western nations of Europe are hurt because of irrational and too liberal politics of their governments. Right now this is not only problem of France, UK or Germany, because Europe has already been invaded by lots of human garbage akk suspended islamic terrorists, reffered to as "refugees" in many cases. No. These are suspended destroyers of my, our beautiful land, culture. I wish Europe could unite and introduce so needed real politics like: arming citizens, supporting catholicism over other religions (and agnosic says that), calling muslim terrorists muslims and not only "some terrorists", fortyfing not only external but also internal borders. Why internal? Because terrorists are already in Europe. I have nothing against welcoming people who are running from war, like many Syrian refugees. But I have a lot against current immigration politics which are really easy to exploit for potential terrorists. a lot against multi-cultural idea of society, and a lot against political correctness in media, which doesn't even allow call muslim muslim. Excuse me for long post, and maybe a bit emotional. But I am an european patriot. It doesn't matter if terrorists strike in Paris, London, Warsaw, Berlin. I do care about my own homeland, which is whole Europe.[/QUOTE] First of all, how the fuck is this related. Secondly, what the fuck. You sound like a real fanatic facist.

What I want right now is some actual border control. Maybe not take in everyone who says "ASYYL" We're already refusing 2/3 of the "refugees" because they have no reason to be here. And recetly there have been many cases of Iraq war criminals walzing their way in and I'm not too happy with that. You beheaded some infidels in your home country, sure, you'll fit right in to our society!

[QUOTE=Govna;49258935]So the answer is, "No, I've never had my house/apartment broken into." I assume the same is true for your car as well. Basically then, you personally have had no real life experience with this matter. Thanks for sharing.[/quote] That would be because it's an incredibly isolated incident. Besides that, my car isn't worth breaking into. :v: [quote]Sucks for your friend, but the fact of the matter is that preparedness within reason never hurts. You have a right to defend your life, your family's lives, and your property. This is sensible, and your little quip at the end about fear and intimidation is horseshit. It's simple: don't start trouble, there won't be trouble. Don't break into my house/apartment/car, don't steal from me, don't try to intimidate me in the first place, don't threaten me... and-- guess what-- I don't have any reason to do anything to you.[/quote] Sounds like fear and intimidation to me. We could solve so many problems if people would just realize how ridiculous that is. Allow me to tell you a story. I was assaulted at work by a co-worker, kicked in the face twice, and had I not gotten out of that attic he'd have likely kept it up, and I'd have probably tried to drag him out by his ears had he done it once more. My immediate response wasn't "AW IT'S ON NOW YOU CUNT!", it was "Dude, what the fuck?", because it was all over some of the pettiest possible bullshit (he got tremendously ass-pained that he did something I specifically warned him not to do because it would cause an issue, and surprise! It caused an issue, and he swore up and down that I didn't tell him it would. I then saw that it wasn't that huge of an issue and tried to tell him it was alright, and THAT was when he flew off the handle). It wasn't even until the second kick that I got upset, and not even because he kicked me, it was because we were in a damned attic where all kinds of property damage could occur. I even told him the least he could do was take this bullshit outside before he broke something (he swung from the rafters when he kicked me, and stood on something he should not have between kicks). Fast-forward to Sunday (it happened Friday), I send him some texts explaining what went down and why I didn't call the bosses, saying that I knew he was going through some shit (he was on probation from a DUI) and that I didn't want him to lose his job or go to jail, because I remembered how much he said he missed his son (which was probably bullshit but that's neither here nor there), but more importantly how much his son missed him (having seen how his son acts around him, this is definitely not bullshit), and explained that there was no need to lose his job so long as he acknowledged that he was out of line and took steps to prevent it from happening again. 2 hours later I have an angry pounding on my door. Guess who? His eyes are blood-shot so I know he's at least high on pot, if not worse (I used to buy from him, he even later claimed that he came over to smoke some with me, and found out later that he was also selling meth, and most people will tell you sellers eventually become users), and he basically stated "yeah I crossed the line but it was your fault so don't do it again or I'll hit you again". He even threatened violence in my own apartment when I tried to explain the situation to him before he finally left. I decided then that he didn't particularly care to acknowledge what had happened and why it was such a poor choice on his part (again, I didn't want him to lose his job, never mind what would've happened had his PO found out), and after such aggression felt no other choice but to inform the bosses of what happened. I find out later that he went to a co-worker's house and tried to get him to help him out, but once he heard what went down (I had told this co-worker what happened the day the altercation occurred) he just told him he couldn't help him. So the next day at work, I show up just in time to see him leaving the office of one of the owners. As he left, he gave me a crazy look, the kind of look that says "Don't you even fucking think about doing it you bitch". I then requested audience with the owner, my foreman, and our sales-rep (also a boss of mine), and explained what had happened. According to the owner, all he told her was there was an argument. After I explained what happened and why I didn't tell anybody, my foreman confirmed that this co-worker had a violent streak, and I was excused shortly after. Needless to say, he didn't have a job there anymore. I find out later that day from the co-worker he spoke to the day before that he had made a comment that if he had lost his job, he'd send a posse after me. So at this point, you're probably thinking "I'll bet you ran out and bought a gun!". Nope. I have no need for one. My step-dad owns a small arsenal of fire-arms ranging from black-powder muskets to pistols of varying descriptions to hunting rifles to shotguns, I could've easily taken my pick had I asked him. I did not. I thought it over rationally, and came to the conclusion that there was nothing he could hope to do to me without it automatically coming back to him, no matter how long he waits. So far, there has been no suspicious activity around my apartment in the months since that incident, though I've heard from various sources (including another co-worker whom he was living with as part of his probation) that every time he tried to tell his part of the story (even trying to claim that he was on top of me swinging on me, which is bull) all they could tell him was "...Dude, you ONLY lost your job, be grateful for that!". And just when you think he might have grown up and learned his lesson, you find out that the job he gets after this incident let him go because he got into an altercation with his boss there, so it's not that he's finally realized that his temper is what got him into this, either. So my life has been threatened, and yet I still see no reason to own a gun. Reason being is if he's determined to do anything at all to me, it wouldn't do me any good anyway. I can think of no scenario where he's the aggressor where I could come out on top, no matter what I'm packing. Besides that, I'm not paranoid enough to carry a weapon with me everywhere, nor do I have sufficient funds to acquire the equipment necessary to safely keep one in my apartment should the need arise, I can think of better things to spend that money on: Tools to create, rather than tools meant to destroy. I refuse to let some punk who feels that fear and intimidation is how one earns respect, rule my life through fear, and I refuse to be the one who puts value of any life over anyone else's. I may not have always held these beliefs, but the times during which I did I was an ignorant child, and I've done a hell of a lot of reflection, introspection, retrospection, rationalization and growing up since then, and like hell I'm going back. Call me stupid if you want, but those are my principles. Principles that I personally think could do the world a hell of a lot of good if people took the time to think about it. They may not be uniquely mine, but they're mine, and nobody, not you, not that punk, can take that from me or convince me otherwise. While we're on the topic of self-preservation, let's assume hypothetically that I DID own a gun, and before we continue on with that mental exercise, let's focus a bit on my step-dad's impressive gun collection but, more importantly, my mother. My mother has been diagnosed with Celiac's and severe Crohn's, as well as both MTHFR mutations and peripheral neuropathy. The medications they put her on caused her to become incredibly depressed to the point that my dad came home and caught her trying to blow her own brains out with a shot-gun, the only thing that stopped her was that day was that her conditions had sapped her strength to the point that she could barely even keep the thing held up, let alone pull the trigger. I've been there, it's a dark and scary place, far more terrifying than anything Hollywood's most imaginative script writers or the most prolific novelists could possibly hope to convey. I've sought help for possible ADHD in high-school, and the doctor deduced that I couldn't focus because I was depressed, and so prescribed me Zoloft (makes perfect sense right?). Sounded good at the time, considering I'd had suicidal thoughts before, but they were exceptionally compounded while on Zoloft, so I stopped taking them. That didn't put an end to the thoughts, though they're few and far between they still crop up every so often. So then, now that you have a little context to work with, what IF I bought a gun to "protect myself"?