New Snowden leak: NSA collects data on American citizens and elected officials, then ships it off to

[kijji]

[QUOTE=Swilly;42160428][B]Its not. It really isn't. This isn't some massive industrial complex.[/B] Its literally governments handing shit over to eachother. Which is just as fucking bad.[/QUOTE]
Explain why, according to Wikipedia. the US government is spending $1 trillion or so on defense-related purposes.

[turke]

[QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;42160525]Explain why, according to Wikipedia. the US government is spending $1 trillion or so on defense-related purposes.[/QUOTE]

compensating for something obviously

[kijji]

[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;42160540]compensating for something obviously[/QUOTE]
But what would the government be compensating for, then?

[Swilly]

[QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;42160525]Explain why, according to Wikipedia. the US government is spending $1 trillion or so on defense-related purposes.[/QUOTE]

Because Congress said it and because we have to not only support our NATO allies but also make sure that things like Gas stays stable.

What the NSA is doing is reprehensible.

Building more tanks is the military industrial complex. Sending data from one country is wholly something different.

[kijji]

It's still wrong and stupid though.

[UltraSamurai]

Israel is the west's greatest ally, there is no reason not to share information with them. That being said, it would make more sense to privatise the NSA so that information wasn't given away at the cost of the tax payers and instead could be purchased. The NSA could also sell services like surveillance making what was once only for governments now a purchasable service to even the playing field.

[Swilly]

[QUOTE=AmericanInfantry;42160590]It's still wrong and stupid though.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but sounding like a fucking conspiracy nutjob/teenager who doesn't know the first things of civics beyond what the internet says insults your own intelligence.

[kijji]

[QUOTE=Swilly;42160607]Yeah, but sounding like a fucking conspiracy nutjob/teenager who doesn't know the first things of civics beyond what the internet says insults your own intelligence.[/QUOTE]
I'm not gonna lie, I don't know jack shit about civics. We really weren't taught how our government works.

Also, I do admit I'm anti-American-government, but please do not insult my intelligence.

[Zenreon]

[QUOTE=Swilly;42160607]Yeah, but sounding like a fucking conspiracy nutjob/teenager who doesn't know the first things of civics beyond what the internet says insults your own intelligence.[/QUOTE]

Woah chill m8, no need to get rude.

I used that term because I know it from Dwight D Eisenhower's speech. I am sorry if I misconstrued it, but it seems to be pretty applicable even to the NSA;

[quote]This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.[/quote]

[Hambone]

What israeli going on guys?

[Makrin]

[QUOTE=UltraSamurai;42160592]Israel is the west's greatest ally, there is no reason not to share information with them. That being said, it would make more sense to privatise the NSA so that information wasn't given away at the cost of the tax payers and instead could be purchased. The NSA could also sell services like surveillance making what was once only for governments now a purchasable service to even the playing field.[/QUOTE]

Sharing information? Yes, that makes perfect sense and is acceptable (or should be) to pretty much everyone. Sharing personal information of private citizens and [I]your own elected officials?[/I] I see literally no reason to do this. We're oceans apart and there's no reason the Israeli government needs to know anything about you or me. Seriously, what could they possibly do with that information? If anything it seems like giving it out is a hazard because then we're no longer the only ones who have it.

[Deunan]

[QUOTE=UltraSamurai;42160592]Israel is the west's greatest ally, there is no reason not to share information with them. That being said, it would make more sense to privatise the NSA so that information wasn't given away at the cost of the tax payers and instead could be purchased. The NSA could also sell services like surveillance making what was once only for governments now a purchasable service to even the playing field.[/QUOTE]
Oh obviously - cooperation should be present. The big issue isn't the sharing of data, but the way the data was shared.

The correct method would have been - sift trough the data at home, identify threats, wanted criminals etc, share data on these things with Israeli defense agencies.

But what instead happened is the israelis got a neat little package of everything.

[Lexinator]

[QUOTE=Starpluck;42160365]It's sarcasm.[/QUOTE]

I gathered yours was sarcasm but most people in the public.

[The Baconator]

[QUOTE=Zenreon117;42160201]I have no words, if this doesn't strike you as going to far, then by all means I give up.[/QUOTE]

allot conservative outlets are likely going to defend this, or actually they probably won't mention it or give it any attention.

[Carnage2323]

Apparently reddit is being blasted with censorship over the leak

[Kuiper]

Isn't Israel notorious for selling information like this to China, and various other places?

[catbarf]

Why is the article so vague about what's actually being shared? It says that the information given to the Israelis is 'unevaluated and unminimized transcripts, gists, facsimiles, telex, voice and Digital Network Intelligence metadata and content', but does not include the identities of US persons, so what does that mean? Is it phone numbers? Text messages, without sender or receiver? Decontextualized transcripts? And who is being collected- a 'US person' can be a non-citizen in the US or a US citizen abroad, so are they sharing data about American citizens within the US, or is it just foreigners and American citizens overseas? The former could be an ordinary citizen complaining about the president to a friend, while the latter could be a wannabe American jihadist in a training camp in Yemen calling an Al-Qaeda agent in the US. The difference seems kind of important.

The fact that the article won't say what is actually being shared makes me suspect some degree of sensationalism is at work here.

[QUOTE=UltraSamurai;42160592]Israel is the west's greatest ally, there is no reason not to share information with them.[/QUOTE]

'Friendly foreign intelligence' is a contradiction of terms. They may be our allies but they're intelligence rivals and they target Americans. They're also not part of Five Eyes and we really can't trust them. We absolutely should not be sharing intelligence of any kind unless it has a mutual interest, and so far all Israel's done is backstab us.

Also, privatizing the NSA is a stupid idea. Do you really want to be giving an intelligence agency financial incentive to their spying?

[NateDude]

holy fucking shit

literally the last thing I expected to hear about the NSA

[Col. Buggernuts]

[QUOTE=catbarf;42164420]'Friendly foreign intelligence' is a contradiction of terms. They may be our allies but they're intelligence rivals and they target Americans. They're also not part of Five Eyes and we really can't trust them. We absolutely should not be sharing intelligence of any kind unless it has a mutual interest, and so far all Israel's done is backstab us.

Also, privatizing the NSA is a stupid idea. Do you really want to be giving an intelligence agency financial incentive to their spying?[/QUOTE]His solution to everything is to privatize it.

[RentAhobO]

I have no idea why the American people doesn't shit on Israel. You guys give them all these freebies and for what? The Israeli government is one of worst on this Earth.

[coup]

Even the Supreme Court? Jesus Christ, their dead, not even the NSA can escape their wrath.

[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=RentAhobO;42164814]I have no idea why the American people doesn't shit on Israel. You guys give them all these freebies and for what? The Israeli government is one of worst on this Earth.[/QUOTE]

We created the Israeli government long ago ourselves.

[Generic Monk]

[QUOTE=Starpluck;42160203]Israel likes to mine data on everyone. They were set to [URL="http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/ireland-seeks-to-block-israel-access-to-data-on-eu-citizens-1.301180"]acquire data on EU citizens until Ireland said no[/URL].[/QUOTE]

why

do israel get off on being comically evil or something

[editline]12th September 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=RentAhobO;42164814]I have no idea why the American people doesn't shit on Israel. You guys give them all these freebies and for what? The Israeli government is one of worst on this Earth.[/QUOTE]

the only reason israel still exists is because it's backed by america and pro israel lobby groups, and as we all know the US can do incredibly unethical, illegal things without fear of reprisal because it's one rule for them and another for the rest of the world

[catbarf]

[QUOTE=Generic Monk;42165120]why

do israel get off on being comically evil or something[/QUOTE]

Israeli intelligence is paranoid to an extreme. Kind of understandable considering they're surrounded by people who want their country off the map, and how they've been blindsided by surprise attacks in the past (like the 1973 Yom Kippur War), but they don't trust anyone and they do everything they can to get whatever information at any cost, even from allies.

Which is why it seems pretty stupid that we're helping them.

[Generic Monk]

[QUOTE=areolop;42160279]Lets put it ths way.

NSA = Solicitors going door-to-door taking data
CIA = creepy man across the street in the bushes watching you[/QUOTE]

nah the cia is more of a guy who tries to play the system by selling drugs and guns to different gangs in order to try and make the neighbourhood nicer for himself, but invariably ends up making things worse

[pr00ch]

I'm not sure whether this is something very big or nothing too big compared to the initial leak. Anyone educated enough to explain?

[Generic Monk]

[QUOTE=catbarf;42165151]Israeli intelligence is paranoid to an extreme. Kind of understandable considering they're surrounded by people who want their country off the map, and how they've been blindsided by surprise attacks in the past (like the 1973 Yom Kippur War), but they don't trust anyone and they do everything they can to get whatever information at any cost, even from allies.

Which is why it seems pretty stupid that we're helping them.[/QUOTE]

well tbh it's pretty damn obvious why everyone hates them

[Wizards Court]

enjoy your new jewish overlords, shalom :v:

[IMG]http://a402.idata.over-blog.com/1/19/32/69/jew-bwa-ha-ha.gif[/IMG]

[Miskav]

[QUOTE=Madtoker;42160469]Jews own part of america? Atleast thats what i hear...[/QUOTE]

And yet you get banned for antisemitism when you point this out.

[gudman]

[QUOTE=Miskav;42165662]And yet you get banned for antisemitism when you point this out.[/QUOTE]

But doesn't that mean Jews own facepu

[RentAhobO]

snip