Mayor Predicts “Waco-Style Standoff” In Response to Obama Gun Confiscation - Polidicks

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39275078]I'm saying that you could have to send the ATF a copy of a bill of sale or something, so that the transfer of ownership is on their books, and they could require you to somehow confirm with them every few years that you do in fact own the guns they have you registered for.[/QUOTE] that still bypasses mental health evaluations and background checks

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275072]this is an example of what i'm referring to when i say people value hobbies over lives your inconvenience is a ridiculous counterargument to any slight attempt at preventing violent crime. nobody will hold a funeral for the couple of months you had to spend waiting for your rifle.[/QUOTE] Where has a registry stopped crime though?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275072]this is an example of what i'm referring to when i say people value hobbies over lives your inconvenience is a ridiculous counterargument to any slight attempt at preventing violent crime. nobody will hold a funeral for the couple of months you had to spend waiting for your rifle.[/QUOTE] Those couple months didn't save anyone's life, either. It doesn't have to be as slow as it is, and it won't be any less effective if it's smoothed out correctly. [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Kopimi;39275087]that still bypasses mental health evaluations and background checks[/QUOTE] If you want to include mental health eval and background checks then your suggestion with the gun store handling the sale is the better solution.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;39275088]Where has a registry stopped crime though?[/QUOTE] gun registry is a retroactive crimestopper in the sense that it makes the enforcement of existing gun laws easier, as well as making prosecution of cases easier while making the execution of a successful crime more difficult. all of that combined makes violent crime less accessible and more risky. a gun registry is essentially a way of making sure we can enforce our gun laws and prosecute violators so that the deterrence of a prison sentence actually means something because there's a massive chance you will be caught.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;39275088]Where has a registry stopped crime though?[/QUOTE] To be fair it makes it easier for analysts to confirm if the rate of crime committed with illegal guns is increasing or decreasing as a result of legislation.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275097]gun registry is a retroactive crimestopper in the sense that it makes the enforcement of existing gun laws easier, as well as making prosecution of cases easier while making the execution of a successful crime more difficult. all of that combined makes violent crime less accessible and more risky. a gun registry is essentially a way of making sure we can enforce our gun laws and prosecute violators so that the deterrence of a prison sentence actually means something because there's a massive chance you will be caught.[/QUOTE] That doesn't answer my question. [U]Where[/U] has it actually stopped crime.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39275090]Those couple months didn't save anyone's life, either. It doesn't have to be as slow as it is, and it won't be any less effective if it's smoothed out correctly.[/QUOTE] they do actually. waiting periods prevent many crimes of passion including not only homicide but suicide.

Illegal firearms are still ridiculously easy to obtain so unless they crack down on those sources simultaneously it'll be for nothing.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;39275101]That doesn't answer my question. [U]Where[/U] has it actually stopped crime.[/QUOTE] what do you mean do you want lat/long coordinates of somewhere on earth that a shooting would have occurred without a registry or what??

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275102]they do actually. waiting periods prevent many crimes of passion including not only homicide but suicide.[/QUOTE] If I already own a gun, that waiting period isn't going to stop me from committing either crime

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275109]what do you mean do you want lat/long coordinates of somewhere on earth that a shooting would have occurred without a registry or what??[/QUOTE] Oh haha, ur witty. But seriously, just name a time where a registry has been proven to stop/reduce crime in a significant fashion. I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just saying [I]has [/I]it worked.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39275113]If I already own a gun, that waiting period isn't going to stop me from committing a crime with that gun if I so choose.[/QUOTE] then you don't impose a waiting period on a previous owner [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;39275114]Oh haha, ur witty. But seriously, just name a time where a registry has been proven to stop/reduce crime in a significant fashion.[/QUOTE] i was serious i don't understand your question do you understand the concept of deterrence and enforcement of laws? [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] a gun registry isn't a physical being that leaps out of the shadows and blocks a bullet from penetrating someones skull in the inner city

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275119]i was serious i don't understand your question do you understand the concept of deterrence and enforcement of laws? [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] a gun registry isn't a physical being that leaps out of the shadows and blocks a bullet from penetrating someones skull in the inner city[/QUOTE] I think he's asking if there's any case you can cite where a registry aided in the prevention of gun crime.

[QUOTE=Megafan;39275157]I think he's asking if there's any case you can cite where a registry aided in the prevention of gun crime.[/QUOTE] by country or something? apparently germany has one and they have an intentional homicide rate of 0.8 compared to america's rate of 4.8 but i don't think this is useful to my cause or to zillas seeing as it'll quickly be dismissed as "well there's so many factors how can you prove it was the registry!!" by either side that disagrees with it.. ignoring that, is it not common sense that if all legally owned guns are registered to their owners it would aide in the enforcement of laws related to crimes committed with firearms thus helping deter further crime as a result of increased successful convictions? [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] moreover what is the negative side of having to register your gun in your name? if it had the capacity to prevent one crime would it not be worth it just to jot your name down when you buy the gun and say "yeah i own this" [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] i swear to god if one of you says something about the government and tyranny and revolution

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275187]= i swear to god if one of you says something about the government and tyranny and revolution[/QUOTE] Well back in 177-- kidding But I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, sorry, I did kind of come off as a tool with that. I was generally curious :v:

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275187]by country or something? apparently germany has one and they have an intentional homicide rate of 0.8 compared to america's rate of 4.8 but i don't think this is useful to my cause or to zillas seeing as it'll quickly be dismissed as "well there's so many factors how can you prove it was the registry!!" by either side that disagrees with it.. ignoring that, is it not common sense that if all legally owned guns are registered to their owners it would aide in the enforcement of laws related to crimes committed with firearms thus helping deter further crime as a result of increased successful convictions? [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] moreover what is the negative side of having to register your gun in your name? if it had the capacity to prevent one crime would it not be worth it just to jot your name down when you buy the gun and say "yeah i own this" [editline]19th January 2013[/editline] i swear to god if one of you says something about the government and tyranny and revolution[/QUOTE] People don't like being on lists. Lists are prone to being misused in any number of ways, and registering with the government makes you unable to back out and hide your shit if they decide to ban the gun you own.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39275206]People don't like being on lists. Lists are prone to being misused in any number of ways, and registering with the government makes you unable to back out and hide your shit if they decide to ban the gun you own.[/QUOTE] i think it's better to just pay attention to future legislation so that an attempt at confiscating guns (which i'm almost positive is entirely illegal under the 2nd amendment anyway) isn't successful, rather than take a paranoid approach and say we can't even know who owns what gun just because we're worried some day the govt will go crazy and literally try to come take our guns away from us

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275223]i think it's better to just pay attention to future legislation so that an attempt at confiscating guns (which i'm almost positive is entirely illegal under the 2nd amendment anyway) than take a paranoid approach and say we can't even know who owns what gun just because we're worried some day the govt will go crazy and literally try to come take our guns away from us[/QUOTE] To be honest, I'd be more afraid of people getting paranoid over the lists than the lists themselves v:v:v I don't have too much of a problem with registries, as long as they aren't abhorrently expensive and overbearing.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275223]i think it's better to just pay attention to future legislation so that an attempt at confiscating guns (which i'm almost positive is entirely illegal under the 2nd amendment anyway) than take a paranoid approach and say we can't even know who owns what gun just because we're worried some day the govt will go crazy and literally try to come take our guns away from us[/QUOTE] That's just the rationale. I don't personally have an issue with registering my guns, because in all likelihood even if they're eventually banned, they'll only be banned for sale and people who already own them won't lose them. e: but of course they'll try their darndest to get you to trade it for a $100 applebee's gift card

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39274909]oh hey you know what i'm sorry let me tell all the people who die every year because of cigarettes that, while their death is unfortunate, at least their death wasn't in vain. because while they may be dead and thousands more will die each year, at least you can comfortably keep smoking cigarettes without having to spend any more money on your already expensive hobby [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;39275244]x[/QUOTE] oh craig come on we were making progress and agreeing on things and then you had to go and embarrass yourself like this i mean really we were having a moment man i don't really gotta explain why that's a terrible comparison right like this is a tongue in cheek borderline trolling sorta post isn't it? you understand why cigarettes and guns are completely different realms of regulation right?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275262]oh craig come on we were making progress and agreeing on things and then you had to go and embarrass yourself like this i mean really we were having a moment man i don't really gotta explain why that's a terrible comparison right like this is a tongue in cheek borderline trolling sorta post isn't it? you understand why cigarettes and guns are completely different realms of regulation right?[/QUOTE] If A is kills more than B, then A needs to be resolved before even considering B. Again, I'm not the one making this a numbers game, the anti-gun nuts are. Less than 5% of Gun Homicide victims are killed by Assault Weapons. So it follows their logic that something that kills more people should be resolved first. Saying shit like "Any death is too many!" and thumbing your nose at other more deadly issues is called having an agenda.

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;39275290]If A is kills more than B, than A needs to be resolved before even considering B. Again, I'm not the one making this a numbers game, the anti-gun nuts are. Less than 5% of Gun Homicide victims are killed by Assault Weapons. So it follows their logic that something that kills more people should be resolved first.[/QUOTE] ignoring the fact that i've stated multiple times i'm not for the assault weapons ban (even in this thread i think?), the difference between cigarettes and guns is that you choose to smoke cigarettes and face the consequences of that choice. the kids who died in the sandy hook shooting didn't choose to get shot

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39275023]Then do you think you are some kind of exception? [B]If you don't think anyone should own guns[/B], start by getting rid of yours.[/QUOTE] oh my fucking god this is like the fifth time someone has said this

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275297]second hand smoke doesnt exist[/QUOTE] lol

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;39275307]lol[/QUOTE] how many people die from secondhand smoke every year

[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;39275290]If A is kills more than B, then A needs to be resolved before even considering B.[/QUOTE] Well then I guess we can't have police until we eliminate war. Great logic. Can't regulate guns until we get rid of all nuclear weapons, and so on.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39275309]how many people die from secondhand smoke every year[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/]49,400 deaths per year from secondhand smoke exposure[/url]

Or we could, crazily enough, do more than one thing at a time.

[QUOTE=teh pirate;39275107]Illegal firearms are still ridiculously easy to obtain so unless they crack down on those sources simultaneously it'll be for nothing.[/QUOTE] Most illegal firearms started out as legal in one way or another.