• [Jordan] Christian journalist murdered after being charged with insulting Islam
    130 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51104720]You know it's funny. You accused me of cherry picking one sentence from an argument we had before.[/QUOTE]Oh, I wasn't cherry-picking, I was just quoting the most relevant sentence over writing "BLAH BLAH WRONG" in the quote, would you like me to edit my post? [QUOTE]And that's exactly what you're doing here. Great list, man. Doesn't even repute anything I've said.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I imagined that would be your reaction. Let's just ignore this post:[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51103860]I do take up issue with a lot of what is said in the Bible, or the Quran, or whatever. My point is is that many people go beyond criticising Islam and then make broad statements about Muslims, saying they need to 'modernise' or to leave our countries or that they're backwards, etc. I'll also point out that so many terrorist groups don't follow any mainstream interpretation or practise of Islam - their cherrypick what they want so as to gain power and control over others.[/QUOTE]About that second part, I discussed why extremists don't cherry-pick a goddamn thing and since you're so goddamn bothered about what we did in previous threads [I]you[/I] said they had a "literal interpretation" of the Quran which is the antithesis of cherrypicking. Extremists are extreme for a reason, they take [I]everything[/I] seriously and if your holy book is chock full of murderous drivel then of course it's going to produce a pack of violent thugs. [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51104720]EDIT: oh and since you have no problem bringing another person's country and claiming they're ignorant of it (WHICH YOU ALSO ACCUSED ME OF)[/QUOTE][QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51104720]And before you talk about Ireland,[/QUOTE]Ha! Christian terrorism in the United States is less of an issue than ecoterrorism, what a stupid point to bring up. We're not talking about our countries, we're talking about Islam, but nice try on redirection. See this is what tickles me because in [I]every fucking thread[/I] people try to use at most a handful of isolated jackasses in the United States or just Ireland in general, as some retarded faux-justification as to why Islam "isn't that bad!" We're not talking about the Christians, we're not talking about the Irish, or Americans, or even Indians. We're talking about Islam. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] It's funny, I post a list and instantly it's upset people but really I was just responding to a guy who started listing things off in the first place. What else was I supposed to do?
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51104823]Oh, I wasn't cherry-picking, I was just quoting the most relevant sentence over writing "BLAH BLAH WRONG" in the quote, would you like me to edit my post? Yeah, I imagined that would be your reaction. Let's just ignore this post:About that second part, I discussed why extremists don't cherry-pick a goddamn thing and since you're so goddamn bothered about what we did in previous threads [I]you[/I] said they had a "literal interpretation" of the Quran which is the antithesis of cherrypicking. Extremists are extreme for a reason, they take [I]everything[/I] seriously and if your holy book is chock full of murderous drivel then of course it's going to produce a pack of violent thugs. Ha! Christian terrorism in the United States is less of an issue than ecoterrorism, what a stupid point to bring up. We're not talking about our countries, we're talking about Islam, but nice try on redirection.[/QUOTE] Oh, so we are only talking about America. I forgot the rest of the world didn't matter. The mass pogroms being committed against Muslims in central Africa have no impact on the rest of the world. You should really try for the Olympics. I think you have what it takes to make the IOC accept 'Mental Gymnastics and Applied Cognitive Dissonance' as an international competitive sport.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51104823]It's funny, I post a list and instantly it's upset people but really I was just responding to a guy who started listing things off in the first place. What else was I supposed to do?[/QUOTE] Since you've admitted you were just going to reject my opinion completely and refuse to debate it, I'll just focus on this: From the way you posted in such a highly aggressive and demeaning matter, trying to make it out that a poster who's becoming a doctor somehow knows nothing about the terrorism in his country, and the fact you continue to insult me and others - I think you might be the one upset here, buddy. EDIT: Oh, and I'd love you to edit your post. I mean, for god's sake, the quotes you posted disprove your point entirely. You don't actually care about the argument at all, you just want to be 'right.' [quote] See this is what tickles me because in every fucking thread people try to use at most a handful of isolated jackasses in the United States or just Ireland in general, as some retarded faux-justification as to why Islam "isn't that bad!" We're not talking about the Christians, we're not talking about the Irish, or Americans, or even Indians. We're talking about Islam.[/quote] You're calling the IRA a handful of isolated jackasses? You didn't ever actually read those articles, did you?
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51104852]Oh, so we are only talking about America.[/QUOTE]Literally what the fuck are you talking about? [QUOTE=FreakyMe;51104852]I forgot the rest of the world didn't matter. The mass pogroms being committed against Muslims in central Africa have no impact on the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]Yeah just like the violence in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, hell Europe in general, Central Asia, and of course [I]Africa as well[/I] committed by Muslims on everyone else doesn't count. Here's a newsflash, had you actually gone through the list you would have discovered several African-based terrorist organizations [I]and I deliberately left out the ones who do not have their own wikipedia page[/I] that are 100% Muslim and 100% for killing Christians. [B]Your entire point of "well a few groups of Christians in Africa kill some Muslims so Christians, all of them, are as bad as Muslims, all of them!" is a stupid point and you're a bad person for making it. Just because there is even [I]a little bit[/I] of Christian extremism does not mean that [I]Islamic extremism is responsible for the [U]vast[/U] majority of religious-based violence in our world today.[/I][/B] [B]You want to talk about mental gymnastics? Look in the fucking mirror.[/B]
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51104888]Literally what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah just like the violence in the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, hell Europe in general, Central Asia, and of course [I]Africa as well[/I] committed by Muslims on everyone else doesn't count. Here's a newsflash, had you actually gone through the list you would have discovered several African-based terrorist organizations [I]and I deliberately left out the ones who do not have their own wikipedia page[/I] that are 100% Muslim and 100% for killing Christians. [B]Your entire point of "well a few groups of Christians in Africa kill some Muslims so Christians, all of them, are as bad as Muslims, all of them!" is a stupid point and you're a bad person for making it. Just because there is even [I]a little bit[/I] of Christian extremism does not mean that [I]Islamic extremism is responsible for the [U]vast[/U] majority of religious-based violence in our world today.[/I][/B] [B]You want to talk about mental gymnastics? Look in the fucking mirror.[/B][/QUOTE] I'm starting to be seriously concerned about whether or not you know where your medication is, and the last time you took it. You are getting very excited and perhaps should consider lying down. We all desire to have a civil discussion that you seem completely incapable of. Nobody wants your grandstanding, but you are going to force it on us anyways.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51104894]I'm starting to be seriously concerned about whether or not you know where your medication is, and the last time you took it. You are getting very excited and perhaps should consider lying down.[/QUOTE] Hey man, let's not stoop to his level.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51104898]Hey man, let's not stoop to his level.[/QUOTE] I should try not to, but it just really got me when he discounted all decent Muslims as: [QUOTE]some fucking brown guy you know has some liberal interpretation of things[/QUOTE] Which is literally the most racist and offensive thing I have read in quite a long time. I really think more attention should be called to just this fragment of his post, because it is the entirety of his argument distilled down to what it is - Islamophobia, xenophobia, and racism. I know LGBT adults who were abused and terrorized their entire lives by their parents, who were encouraged to do so by their pastors, based on the text of the Bible. People who were tortured all through childhood in the name of a Christian God, but he would discount all of their abusers as non-Christian while cherry-picking ONLY violent extremists as representative of Islam. The BIBLE didn't cause them to be abused, but the KORAN sure causes extremists to be extreme.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51104867]Since you've admitted you were just going to reject my opinion completely and refuse to debate it, I'll just focus on this:[/QUOTE]I debated it here: [QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51104823]Yeah, I imagined that would be your reaction. Let's just ignore this post:About that second part, I discussed why extremists don't cherry-pick a goddamn thing and since you're so goddamn bothered about what we did in previous threads [I]you[/I] said they had a "literal interpretation" of the Quran which is the antithesis of cherrypicking. Extremists are extreme for a reason, they take [I]everything[/I] seriously and if your holy book is chock full of murderous drivel then of course it's going to produce a pack of violent thugs.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]From the way you posted in such a highly aggressive and demeaning matter, trying to make it out that a poster who's becoming a doctor somehow knows nothing about the terrorism in his country, and the fact you continue to insult me and others - I think you might be the one upset here, buddy.[/QUOTE]??? I haven't insulted you, if anything the shit you and FreakyMe have thrown [I]my[/I] way is an insult to my intelligence but I'm not crying about it. I am scratching my head though, wondering what the hell you're trying to do here because: [QUOTE]You're calling the IRA a handful of isolated jackasses? You didn't ever actually read those articles, did you?[/QUOTE][I]Yes, the IRA when compared to al-Shabaab, the Islamic State, al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and others they are a handful. They're not even that actually, they're more like a collection of fingernails.[/I] When has the last IRA terror attack been? When was the first? You do realize that Islamic extremism has been a constant assault on the modern world since the 70's, and the absolute deadliest terrorist attacks have been committed in the name of Islam. [QUOTE=FreakyMe;51104918]Which is literally the most racist and offensive thing I have read in quite a long time. I really think more attention should be called to just this fragment of his post, because it is the entirety of his argument distilled down to what it is - Islamophobia, xenophobia, and racism.[/QUOTE]I was [I]attempting[/I] to at least give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this ardent defense of Islam from any and all criticism isn't out of white guilt. "Waahhh it's racist!!!" No, it's likely the truth. I'd even say there's a good chance you [I]don't[/I] actually know anyone who's Muslim given that you're in the United States and, statistically, the chances of you being friends with or acquaintances with somebody who is Muslim [I]or even "brown" to begin with[/I] is rather low. So what's up then? You've discounted [U]all[/U] criticism of the Islamic faith and now you're saying I'm Islamaphobic, xenophobic, and racist (l m a o to all charges, good sir) so I have to wonder are you even participating here? [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=FreakyMe;51104918]I know LGBT adults who were abused and terrorized their entire lives by their parents, who were encouraged to do so by their pastors, based on the text of the Bible. People who were tortured all through childhood in the name of a Christian God, but he would discount all of their abusers as non-Christian while cherry-picking ONLY violent extremists as representative of Islam. The BIBLE didn't cause them to be abused, but the KORAN sure causes extremists to be extreme.[/QUOTE]Sounds like this is more about your anti-Christian bias than anything I have to say, I already addressed the differences between Christianity and Islam in an earlier post. (which is dumb because I shouldn't even pander to such stupid bullshit, but then I just get accused of "not debating")
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51104945] No, it's likely the truth. I'd even say there's a good chance you [I]don't[/I] actually know anyone who's Muslim given that you're in the United States and, statistically, the chances of you being friends with or acquaintances with somebody who is Muslim [I]or even "brown" to begin with[/I] is rather low. So what's up then? You've discounted [U]all[/U] criticism of the Islamic faith and now you're saying I'm Islamaphobic, xenophobic, and racist (l m a o to all charges, good sir) so I have to wonder are you even participating here?[/QUOTE] Dude - Just keep digging. I literally live in one of the brownest, most Middle-eastern influenced parts of my state. I speak to people who originate (within their lifetime) from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and India every single day at my college. I am friends with several first-generation immigrants and speak with them regularly about the discrimination they face here EVERY SINGLE DAY because of their religion and appearance being associated with terrorism. I walk up to these people because I can see a hundred people like you discounting them on sight when I am standing next to them, refusing to acknowledge their humanity because of their appearance and presumed ideological views. Meanwhile, I walk up with a 'gay pride' pin on my backpack and say hello. You literally discounted all good Muslims as a singular "fucking brown guy" with liberal views. That is objectively racist [I]and [/I]Islamophobic [I]and [/I]xenophobic. Those charges I leveled against you were not unfounded. You have no idea, but I'll let you continue thinking you do. Feel free to continue masturbating over how right you think you are and leave me out of it.
[quote=JumpingJackFlash]Yes, the IRA when compared to al-Shabaab, the Islamic State, al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Taiba, and others they are a handful. They're not even that actually, they're more like a collection of fingernails. When has the last IRA terror attack been? When was the first? You do realize that Islamic extremism has been a constant assault on the modern world since the 70's, and the absolute deadliest terrorist attacks have been committed in the name of Islam.[/quote] You have literally no idea what you're talking about when it comes to IRA. You do realise that the biggest terrorist threat the UK has ever faced came from the IRA, right? That they had many, many attacks throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s? That there's a possibility because of Brexit and the current Northern Ireland situation that there might be a revival of them? That's not even considering the contiuency groups and groups like the Ulster Defence Force - who were the Protestant and loyalist version of the IRA and who killed plenty of Catholics. Frankly, your continued ignorance of Irish issues is appealing. Sure, they might be 'small' in comparison to Islamic terrorists. But they did a lot of damage to a lot of people and over 4,000 people - mostly innocents - died in the Troubles. They nearly assassinated Margaret Thatcher, for god's sake. I swear to god, if there is an IRA attack in the future - you better eat your words.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51103712]I'm very willing to admit that was a very low blow. But what he said to me, in context, sounded very hypocritical. I'm not apologising for anyone. I'm just pointing out that painting about 1 billion people as all the same and all as extremists is super hypocritical, because you could bet that there would be a ton of these "critics" would easily defeat their own point by saying 'ah but not all Christians are like those Christians!!!'[/QUOTE] Correct me if I am wrong but has anyone actually claimed that a billion muslims are extremists in this thread?
So what qualifies terrorists as true muslims in a way that normal muslims (basically a standing section of the world population) are not qualified as muslims? [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=karlosfandango;51105007]Correct me if I am wrong but has anyone actually claimed that a billion muslims are extremists in this thread?[/QUOTE] Most arguments here are that violent extremism is actually the orthodoxy of the Islamic world (patently false) and that 1 billion muslims must either all be inherently violent and dangerous due to their faith or they are simply not muslims at all. in any case the argument ive seen so far is that islam as a faith is inherently violent and to practice it correctly one must be motivated to violence against innocents??? Thats p sweet coming from a bunch of nerds whose main exposure to islam is wikipedia and cnn lol
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51104727][URL="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Almost-all-mosques-destroyed-in-Central-African-Republic-unrest/articleshow/46610528.cms"] Almost all Mosques in Central Africa Destroyed[/URL] [URL="http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/03/envoy-car-mosque-destroyed-war-150318072200714.html"]Second Source[/URL] Source: [URL="http://time.com/42131/anti-balaka-central-african-republic/"]Time[/URL] [URL="http://www.globalresearch.ca/france-and-the-militarization-of-central-africa-thousands-of-muslims-fleeing-the-central-african-republic/5369276"] Thousands of Muslims fleeing Central Africa due to Ethnic and Religious Cleansing[/URL] [URL="http://heavy.com/news/2015/12/anti-balaka-christian-extremism-terrorism-central-african-republic-car-africa-mass-muslim-islam-execution-behead-murder-mass-grave-genocide-uncensored-youtube/"] Christians Mass-Beheading Muslims in Central African Republic[/URL] Plenty. Google Christian Terrorism in Africa. Click News. Read. Pop your echo chamber.[/QUOTE] How about you Google Anti-balaka's history first? They're fighting against the Muslim rebel group Seleka, which declared an insurgency against the Central African Republic's government in December 2012, launched a major offensive against government forces, and successfully overthrew the country's president in a month. In the words of one of their own leaders, [url=http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refdaily?pass=52fc6fbd5&id=53bf786c8]"We have killed, murdered, violated, but what happened, happened."[/url] They're terrorists who have killed and raped people (ethnic and religious enemies of theirs, Christians and Animists included), who have destabilized the government more than it already was, who are masquerading like they're fighting for equality, and who downplay their crimes like they aren't a big deal. Fuck yeah Christians living there are going to band together and fight back. Why is that surprising? People tend not to like it when you do shit like this. The Animists especially have a reason to work with the Christians against these Muslim bastards: Islam [i]hates[/i] Animism because of its pagan rituals and practices. The Quran even commands Muslims to take up arms against pagans and polytheists, because they're guilty of "Fitnah" (disbelief). [quote][i]"And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing . . . if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun [the polytheists/pagans, 'evil-doers', etc.]"[/i] - Quran, 2:191-193[/quote]
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51104962]Dude - Just keep digging. I literally live in one of the brownest, most Middle-eastern influenced parts of my state. I speak to people who originate (within their lifetime) from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, and India every single day at my college. I am friends with several first-generation immigrants and speak to them about the discrimination they face here EVERY SINGLE DAY because of their religion being associated with terrorism.[/QUOTE]Oh, so [I]that's[/I] why you don't like me picking on the religion. This isn't about actual extremism or the pitfalls of the Islamic community [I]worldwide[/I] being statistically vulnerable to recruitment by religious extremists, (especially in Northern Africa, Europe, and the United States and doubly so for my home state of Minnesota) this is about how I got you all hot and bothered for insulting the religion of your friends. Okay, understandable, I think I'd be a bit miffed about that too so I can't fault you there. Why didn't you say that though? Just come out and say it, "I'm close friends with several first-generation immigrants" and I'd appreciate it if you didn't make them seem like terrorists." I probably wouldn't change what I've said so much as softened it for your benefit, because I truly think the religion is a blight on the modern world. [QUOTE]Keep masturbating over how right you are and leave me the fuck out of it.[/QUOTE]You see, what is a little irritating is how you clearly got upset and then up and declared, "you're racist!" because [I]you[/I] had a problem. When the discussion boils down to baseless epithets like that what am I supposed to do? Tell you what, I'll apologize for making it seem like you were riddled with white guilt. I'm sorry. [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51104989]You have literally no idea what you're talking about when it comes to IRA.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Frankly, your continued ignorance of Irish issues is appealing. Sure, they might be 'small' in comparison to Islamic terrorists. But they did a lot of damage to a lot of people and over 4,000 people - mostly innocents - died in the Troubles. They nearly assassinated Margaret Thatcher, for god's sake.[/QUOTE]So they're a big deal but yet... they're admittedly small and pretty much over their entire operational span they killed pretty much the same amount of people that died on 9/11 (a thousand person difference) which was [I]one[/I] terrorist attack committed in the name of Islam. Before I opened this thread I actually had thought they had done more, I was thinking like 50,000 people were killed by the IRA alone, I don't know where that number came from but hey I'm not perfect! That was four thousand people over what, three decades? Iraq saw worse in one, so has Somalia, Nigeria, Libya, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, and several others. Syria's seen worse in a single year, all in the name of Islam. I could start cutting up the numbers and making some grand analogy about peanuts and apples or some other shit but you [I]should[/I] be seeing where I'm going with this. [QUOTE]I swear to god, if there is an IRA attack in the future - you better eat your words.[/QUOTE]I won't. I get that it's really personal for you but people literally forget Ireland exists, some people aren't even sure if Ireland [I]is it's own country.[/I] Those same people are well-aware of the existence of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, despite the fact that Afghanistan is [U]completely[/U] irrelevant and Iraq and Syria have little going for them anyway. Yeah four thousand people dying is objectively bad but it isn't really significant, especially not when it's weighed against the subject of global Islamic extremism. [QUOTE=Milkdairy;51105019]So what qualifies terrorists as true muslims in a way that normal muslims (basically a standing section of the world population) are not qualified as muslims?[/QUOTE]Well considering that their special secret holy book's very literal rules are taken very literally by extremists it's a pretty easy conclusion to come to. lmao to the rest of your post though.
[QUOTE=Govna;51105072]How about you Google Anti-balaka's history first? They're fighting against the Muslim rebel group Seleka, which declared an insurgency against the Central African Republic's government in December 2012, launched a major offensive against government forces, and successfully overthrew the country's president in a month. In the words of one of their own leaders, [url=http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refdaily?pass=52fc6fbd5&id=53bf786c8]"We have killed, murdered, violated, but what happened, happened."[/url] They're terrorists who have killed and raped people (ethnic and religious enemies of theirs, Christians and Animists included), who have destabilized the government more than it already was, who are masquerading like they're fighting for equality, and who downplay their crimes like they aren't a big deal. Fuck yeah Christians living there are going to band together and fight back. Why is that surprising? People tend not to like it when you do shit like this. The Animists especially have a reason to work with the Christians against these Muslim bastards: Islam [i]hates[/i] Animism because of its pagan rituals and practices. The Quran even commands Muslims to take up arms against pagans and polytheists, because they're guilty of "Fitnah" (disbelief).[/QUOTE] I am very familiar with the group's history. Every organization or group, extremist or not, arises in response to [I]something[/I]. The problem is that Anti-Balaka's response has become disproportionate and uncontrollable and that the group now has its sights set on the complete ethnic and religious cleansing of Central Africa to remove all of Islam and all evidence of it, due to the fact that all Muslims are seen as complicit with Seleka, whether they are or not.
I want you all for a second to look back and think about the US a few decades ago, right amidst the civil rights movement. Imagine a couple of teenage/young adult black folks talking about racism. Racism was the big issue then, and it caused real problems for those guys. Anyways, one kid speaks up and says "Whites are the problem. They are the racists who push us down and ruin our lives. White people are the problem." Now, my fellow facepunchers, I can bet that nearly all of you found that statement to be completely stupid, and you're right. You guys know that racism back then had many sources; History, laws, isolated upbringings, ignorance, etc etc. To pin racism on "white people" is such a ridiculous over-simplification, it is simply incorrect. now, understand that you are no different than that kid when you read about a terrorist attack and conclude "Islam is the problem." A lot of people seem to not like comparing Christianity to Islam because they are different (they are different), or because you like neither (feel free). However, people use this comparison often because its such a good example of what can happen. Go back to the "civil rights" movement example. During that era, a lot of white people lived in small communities/towns together, like in the suburbs, and Christianity was far more prevalent in life. These little cozy communities were ideal echo chambers from the outside world. with limited interaction with actual black people, it was easy to spread false generalizations about them. Since many people there were christian, it opened up an avenue of sharing more ideas. for example, groups like the KKK used/twisted Christianity to excuse their beliefs, and its certainly easier to go up to an already christian fellow, and say "hey, there are these parts of the bible that say this" and attract more followers. The same thing is happening today in the middle east. there are many rural areas without much contact with the outside world, and that has led to some quite outdated beliefs. Since a lot of the people there are Muslim, its easier for terrorist groups to excuse their actions with "islam" and use it to gain more naive followers and traction. and thats still not taking in account for backwards laws in some countries, or government forced religious beliefs, and so on. And it may actually be worse today. Though the internet brings us so much information, some people still like closing themselves in their little safe spaces with no opposing opinions. Don't believe me? check out most political boards on reddit. ISIS has a strong social media presence, and I am certain their propaganda inspired many "lone wolf" attacks that have struck us in the west. So, let me be blunt. Blaming Islam will not achieve much. Although it is in a sense, involved, getting rid of it will not change anything. there are so many other variables to take in account. Frankly, opposing islam as a whole (instead of the radical groups) really just makes the "its the entire world against us muslims" narrative from ISIS seem more legit. that is the last thing we need. When we fight terrorism or racism, we are fighting an idea. A poisonous, terrible,inhumane idea, but an idea nonetheless. We must fight it by popping these echo chambers and educating people to not fall for the nonsense. We must flip the narrative from "Its the world against us muslims" to "It is the world, including the muslims, against ISIS and every terrorist group." that is how we win this.
[quote]Well considering that their special secret holy book's very literal rules are taken very literally by extremists it's a pretty easy conclusion to come to. lmao to the rest of your post though.[/QUOTE] who is and isnt a muslim isnt even up to you to decide bro, definitely not based on the your exclusive criteria that im guessing you formed when you googled "quran verses about war" or something to that effect, right? their holy book's "very literal rules" isnt just "kill infidels rape people" so i don't know how you can say terrorists are anymore true muslims than other observers of the faith who dont kill people (pretty much everyone) "lmao" all u want my dude but you're not a scholar you're just some dude on the internet whos really fired up at a bunch of people cause the media's showing you what you wanna see...you don't really have any credibility to talk about whether muslims are following their faith or not
[QUOTE=da space core;51105112]So, let me be blunt. Blaming Islam will not achieve much. Although it is in a sense, involved, getting rid of it will not change anything. there are so many other variables to take in account. Frankly, opposing islam as a whole (instead of the radical groups) really just makes the "its the entire world against us muslims" narrative from ISIS seem more legit. that is the last thing we need.[/QUOTE]I read your entire post so don't think I'm cherry-picking just this but Islam itself is a bad religion no matter which way it's looked at, which is precisely why extremists find it oh so easy. It's an overarching, all-encompassing entity that goes beyond faith, it's culture, it's society, [I]it's law.[/I] Everything about Islam is geared toward a theocracy and communities entirely comprised of Muslims, other faiths like Christianity and Judaism are merely tolerated both in scripture and in practice. Others, like me, are not at all included and are automatic enemies because of the complete and total rejection of the Islamic faith. Islam is not a friend of a secular society by any stretch, but in reverse a secular society can include Muslims without issue. Yeah maybe I didn't make that clear enough but frankly I don't care, even when I explain myself the stubbornly ignorant will still blurt out whatever the hell they think instead. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Milkdairy;51105152]who is and isnt a muslim isnt even up to you to decide bro[/QUOTE]I'm only going with what their actual religious texts say. You can try to pretend this is true:[QUOTE]im guessing you formed when you googled "quran verses about war" or something to that effect, right?[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean it's actually true. At all. Actually to the contrary it seems the Quran [I]and associated texts[/I] were written precisely to avoid contradictions because it is to be taken quite literally, that's why Islamic law is even a thing that is actually functional. As I said already it's not [I]just[/I] a religion, it's a hell of a lot more than that, and sure saying "yeah but they want sharia law and that means they get to behead everyone!" is [I]a little bit ignorant[/I] of what's actually going on it isn't complete bullshit. Simply put, any legal system that springs directly out of a religious text is not a legal system for a free society. Nice try though. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Milkdairy;51105152]"lmao" all u want my dude but you're not a scholar you're just some dude on the internet whos really fired up at a bunch of people cause the media's showing you what you wanna see...[/QUOTE]Oh it's all a conspiracy by [I]the media![/I] Oh no! I bet the Jews did this. Yeah I think I'll keep laughing.
Of course not all muslims are radical but the faith certainly lends itself to radicalism.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51105155]I read your entire post so don't think I'm cherry-picking just this but Islam itself is a bad religion no matter which way it's looked at, which is precisely why extremists find it oh so easy. It's an overarching, all-encompassing entity that goes beyond faith, it's culture, it's society, [I]it's law.[/I] Everything about Islam is geared toward a theocracy and communities entirely comprised of Muslims, other faiths like Christianity and Judaism are merely tolerated both in scripture and in practice. Others, like me, are not at all included and are automatic enemies because of the complete and total rejection of the Islamic faith. Islam is not a friend of a secular society by any stretch, but in reverse a secular society can include Muslims without issue. Yeah maybe I didn't make that clear enough but frankly I don't care, even when I explain myself the stubbornly ignorant will still blurt out whatever the hell they think instead. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] I'm only going with what their actual religious texts say. You can try to pretend this is true: That doesn't mean it's actually true. At all. Actually to the contrary it seems the Quran [I]and associated texts[/I] were written precisely to avoid contradictions because it is to be taken quite literally, that's why Islamic law is even a thing that is actually functional. As I said already it's not [I]just[/I] a religion, it's a hell of a lot more than that, and sure saying "yeah but they want sharia law and that means they get to behead everyone!" is [I]a little bit ignorant[/I] of what's actually going on it isn't complete bullshit. Simply put, any legal system that springs directly out of a religious text is not a legal system for a free society. Nice try though. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] Oh it's all a conspiracy by [I]the media![/I] Oh no! I bet the Jews did this. Yeah I think I'll keep laughing.[/QUOTE] haha the jews did this!!! is that what i said?? No its just you pulling a funky strawman!!! I said the media is showing you what you want to see, which is true. If it weren't you wouldnt be in this thread, fired up about islam would you? duh. moving on again it's not really up to you to say that the quran and the hadiths were written to avoid contradiction as you werent there when they were written. (im assuming this implies that they are free of contradictions which is really not for me or you to say) but yeah I guess I agree that I wouldn't really support any state governed by purely religious laws But I disagree in your claim that non-violent muslims arent true believers of their faith - you cant just say that matter-of-factly, it's not like terrorists are going out giving money to the poor and stuff, so obviously even if moderate muslims arent true believers neither are the terrorists cherry picking calls to violence to they can justify killing people. since we love quoting singular quran verses so much: [sp]Quran 2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.[/sp] - this verse is commonly explained to mean that one cannot be coerced into accepting faith through means of force or otherwise - a common claim by Muslims is that the Islamic world was largely created through peaceful conversion, in line with this verse. So clearly the al-nusra and isis dudes saying "convert or die" are either blatantly going against their text or are um..idk...interpreting it as they please? You can't either radicals nor moderates are "true" or "false" muslims because verses can be interpreted. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] oh great he got banned [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] well thats it folks thats all i had to say
He doesn't even understand why, probably. People who do what he did to this thread aren't worth the energy wasted trying to contradict them. I threw everything but the kitchen sink at him with very little effect. If any lesson can be learned from how this thread was derailed, it is "Report and move on - discuss the subject with others. If the problem persists, temporarily (or permanently) add offending individuals to the ignore list." - Myself included.
I think the most frustrating thing about all this xenophobia is its cyclical nature. You fools feed into hatred and call for religious persecution, affecting hundreds of millions of innocent peoole, which inevitably only makes the very same issues you're criticising grow worse as the fringe of those people is pushed farther towards anti-Western sentiments and religious zealousness by extremist propaganda (propaganda which is slowly becoming fact). This just feeds into further persecution, and the cycle repeats. blah blah blah. It's like watching a shoving match slowly escalate into a riot because the people who started it start roping in bystanders.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51105337]Of course not all muslims are radical but the faith certainly lends itself to radicalism.[/QUOTE] Faith in general lends itself to radicalism. So does patriotism. Or political beliefs in general. It comes with the territory of being a subject that people care strongly about, and that separates people into groups. And even then, surrounding conditions that have an effect in radicalization are important to consider. Historically, there were a lot less radicalized nationalist Canadians than Irish or Basque nationalists. But, hey, you probably won't have anyone listing Irish paramilitary groups (you would be surprised how many think they are the real-real-real continuation of the same provisional army) or arguing that Irish people who don't have a particular interest in blowing things up aren't true™ Irish.
Islam is a terrible ideology, not much of a surprise when terrible things happen when its religious laws are applied in reality.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51104989]You have literally no idea what you're talking about when it comes to IRA. You do realise that the biggest terrorist threat the UK has ever faced came from the IRA, right? That they had many, many attacks throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s? That there's a possibility because of Brexit and the current Northern Ireland situation that there might be a revival of them? That's not even considering the contiuency groups and groups like the Ulster Defence Force - who were the Protestant and loyalist version of the IRA and who killed plenty of Catholics. Frankly, your continued ignorance of Irish issues is appealing. Sure, they might be 'small' in comparison to Islamic terrorists. But they did a lot of damage to a lot of people and over 4,000 people - mostly innocents - died in the Troubles. They nearly assassinated Margaret Thatcher, for god's sake. I swear to god, if there is an IRA attack in the future - you better eat your words.[/QUOTE] I guess enough time has passed since the Troubles that some people don't really realize how fucking huge of an issue they were, by western standards. [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/ipqGxLP.jpg[/img_thumb]
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51105566]He doesn't even understand why, probably. People who do what he did to this thread aren't worth the energy wasted trying to contradict them. I threw everything but the kitchen sink at him with very little effect. If any lesson can be learned from how this thread was derailed, it is "Report and move on - discuss the subject with others. If the problem persists, temporarily (or permanently) add offending individuals to the ignore list." - Myself included.[/QUOTE] frankly nobody in that debate had very compelling responses
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51106511]frankly nobody in that debate had very compelling responses[/QUOTE] Hence the "Myself included." I found myself too emotionally involved to remain objective in the face of such obtuseness, and had to eventually excuse myself. It was all in all a cluster-fuck that I don't think anyone involved with is very proud of.
[QUOTE=Nitro836;51103103]RELIGION OF PEACE [highlight](User was banned for this post ("shitposting" - Gurant))[/highlight][/QUOTE] god damn the amount of people who agree with this shitpost reminds me everytime that facepunch is still partly a cesspool of ignorant bigots [editline]sd[/editline] really disgusting and disappointing
[QUOTE=Rainboo;51106648]god damn the amount of people who agree with this shitpost reminds me everytime that facepunch is still partly a cesspool of ignorant bigots [editline]sd[/editline] really disgusting and disappointing[/QUOTE] and you still drink from the spit bucket
[QUOTE=Boaraes;51106431]Islam is a terrible ideology, not much of a surprise when terrible things happen when its religious laws are applied in reality.[/QUOTE] Sometimes i wonder why i bother. I mean i read the op, think a bit, then take my time writing a post. Then I see others come along and fart on the keyboard without reading anything. If Islam is a terrible ideology, then you are painting quite a lot of people with a broad brush. Either clarify what you mean or post some sources to back your argument
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