• [Jordan] Christian journalist murdered after being charged with insulting Islam
    130 replies, posted
I wonder why people always argue with "there exists peaceful majority" and thus it's not problem in any event leading to drastic civilian loss (genocides, wars, civil wars, revolutions, ethnical cleansing) the majority DIDN'T matter at all .. it was always the minor group, the radical few, who collected weapons or power (thus both) then they quell the minority trying to keep order then the majority/crowds just let them rule (doesn't matter if from fear or for gain or don't care) it even needed minor group to 'kick the majority' to enter most of important wars to prevent such groups control several continents otherwise "no our problem" approach would be established sadly majority don't matter when fate of minorities is at stake ... when the majority starts to care and actually do something about those radicals then one may say there is finally progress ... it's really sad this event happened in Jordan cause it's one of the countries which one could consider relatively safe while modern liberal orient ...
[QUOTE=Dwarden;51107280]I wonder why people always argue with "there exists peaceful majority" and thus it's not problem in any event leading to drastic civilian loss (genocides, wars, civil wars, revolutions, ethnical cleansing) the majority DIDN'T matter at all .. it was always the minor group, the radical few, who collected weapons or power (thus both) then they quell the minority trying to keep order then the majority/crowds just let them rule (doesn't matter if from fear or for gain or don't care) it even needed minor group to 'kick the majority' to enter most of important wars to prevent such groups control several continents otherwise "no our problem" approach would be established sadly majority don't matter when fate of minorities is at stake ... when the majority starts to care and actually do something about those radicals then one may say there is finally progress ... it's really sad this event happened in Jordan cause it's one of the countries which one could consider relatively safe while modern liberal orient ...[/QUOTE] You're right watch out everyone the Muslims are about to commit genocide (ignoring that the largest genocides in the west were done by governments with popular support)
ignoring that's exactly what I wrote, read it again ...
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51107509]You're right watch out everyone the Muslims are about to commit genocide (ignoring that the largest genocides in the west were done by governments with popular support)[/QUOTE] Keyword in your post is "were". Were done, as in happened in the past. Europe's not the focus of attention anymore, and the reason for that is because shit like this is not happening in Europe these days. It [i]is[/i] however happening in the Middle East and Africa, also Asia. It's a regular occurrence in these places, especially with the rise of terrorist organizations that just happen to be predominantly Muslim. Genocide has been going on for a while now as far as Iraq and Syria are concerned, in case you didn't notice, since ISIS, Al-Nusra, etc. showed up. [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/middleeast/isis-genocide-yazidi-un.html]ISIS is slaughtering Yazidis right now in both countries[/url]; the ones they don't kill they sell into slavery, they torture and keep like animals in cages for their own amusement, they rape and brutalize... it's atrocious. There's 400,000 of those people at their mercy, and we haven't got a clue how many of them so far have been murdered. It's a lot though, dozens of mass graves have been found. And then you've got Al-Shabaab murdering off people in Somalia and North Africa. The list goes on. I also suggest you study the conflict that's quietly going on right now between Iran (a Shi'ite theocracy) and Saudi Arabia (the biggest exporter of Wahhabi jihadism). You also need to study sectarian violence between Muslims and compare it to modern Christian sectarian violence; forewarning: one of them is not like the other. It's basically the modern equivalent of the schism that existed between Catholicism and Protestantism in European history-- except their schism began immediately after the death of Muhammad almost 1,400-years-ago and still has not resolved itself whilst the European one did (we're not attacking heretics in the West anymore, in case you didn't notice)-- and it's an issue across the Middle East, just as it also is (again) in Africa and Asia. [editline]26 September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Rainboo;51106648]god damn the amount of people who agree with this shitpost reminds me everytime that facepunch is still partly a cesspool of ignorant bigots [editline]sd[/editline] really disgusting and disappointing[/QUOTE] That's a very presumptuous statement. You have no idea how much they know about Islam or what their background with it is. I starred his post, and my dad's side of the family is made up entirely of Shi'ites (some practice, some don't) who came here to the United States because of what happened in Iran with the Islamic Revolution; they simply didn't want any part of it because they knew how destructive it would be. As far as my dad goes, he thinks it's a silly and violent religion. He thinks religion in general causes more problems than it's worth. And he's absolutely right. That's why I love it when people start criticizing Islam and then others come in and say, "Well Christianity is just as bad!" What a stellar, ace-in-the-hole argument you've got there. Too bad for you I'm not a Christian either and don't care if you attack it. This fucking debate never ends. It just goes around and around in a massive circle.
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51107509]You're right watch out everyone the Muslims are about to commit genocide (ignoring that the largest genocides in the west were done by governments with popular support)[/QUOTE] Oh gee you sure showed him lmao
[QUOTE=Govna;51108711]Keyword in your post is "were". Were done, as in happened in the past. Europe's not the focus of attention anymore, and the reason for that is because shit like this is not happening in Europe these days. It [i]is[/i] however happening in the Middle East and Africa, also Asia. It's a regular occurrence in these places, especially with the rise of terrorist organizations that just happen to be predominantly Muslim. Genocide has been going on for a while now as far as Iraq and Syria are concerned, in case you didn't notice, since ISIS, Al-Nusra, etc. showed up. [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/middleeast/isis-genocide-yazidi-un.html]ISIS is slaughtering Yazidis right now in both countries[/url]; the ones they don't kill they sell into slavery, they torture and keep like animals in cages for their own amusement, they rape and brutalize... it's atrocious. There's 400,000 of those people at their mercy, and we haven't got a clue how many of them so far have been murdered. It's a lot though, dozens of mass graves have been found. And then you've got Al-Shabaab murdering off people in Somalia and North Africa. The list goes on.[/QUOTE] so are you saying that the only difference between europe and the middle-east is ~80 years? because that's how long it has been since the most costly war in terms of human life was predominantly fought by christian nations, and one of the most extensive genocides ever committed by human beings was performed by a predominantly christian nation
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51108898]so are you saying that the only difference between europe and the middle-east is ~80 years? because that's how long it has been since the most costly war in terms of human life was predominantly fought by christian nations, and one of the most extensive genocides ever committed by human beings was performed by a predominantly christian nation[/QUOTE] It wasn't based on Christian ideology, that's the difference.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51108969]It wasn't based on Christian ideology, that's the difference.[/QUOTE] right, so all of christian teaching took a back seat during the war? or are you saying that the only difference between the events of 80 years ago and now is the fact that "one was more vocal about it being religious than the other"
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51109049]right, so all of christian teaching took a back seat during the war? or are you saying that the only difference between the events of 80 years ago and now is the fact that "one was more vocal about it being religious than the other"[/QUOTE] Neither, I am saying that what you refer to had nothing directly to do with Christianity.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109072]Neither, I am saying that what you refer to had nothing directly to do with Christianity.[/QUOTE] except for almost everyone fighting in it being christian except for the main "antagonist" nation being 94% christian in 1939 so at what point do you decide it had "nothing to do" with Christianity you seem quite happy to completely eliminate christianity there, because you're saying it took a back seat, but i wonder if you'd so readily discard religion in modern conflict with islam - or perhaps accept that there are more pressing issues with the middle-east than the religion
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51109079]except for almost everyone fighting in it being christian except for the main "antagonist" nation being 94% christian in 1939 so at what point do you decide it had "nothing to do" with Christianity you seem quite happy to completely eliminate christianity there, because you're saying it took a back seat, but i wonder if you'd so readily discard religion in modern conflict with islam - or perhaps accept that there are more pressing issues with the middle-east than the religion[/QUOTE] You misquoted me, I didn't say it took a back seat. I said it had nothing directly to do with it at all, it was waged mostly between Christian nations but not linked to any kind of Christian ideology. I never mentioned my stance on Islam in any of my posts in this thread previously but you said: [QUOTE] but i wonder if you'd so readily discard religion in modern conflict with islam [/QUOTE] So modern conflict with Islam (which is a religion) cannot be discarded as a non religious conflict because it is a conflict based on religion. (Islam)
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109195]You misquoted me, I didn't say it took a back seat. I said it had nothing directly to do with it at all, it was waged mostly between Christian nations but not linked to any kind of Christian ideology. I never mentioned my stance on Islam in any of my posts in this thread previously but you said: So modern conflict with Islam (which is a religion) cannot be discarded as a non religious conflict because it is a conflict based on religion.[/QUOTE] when i said modern conflict with islam i was contrasting it with the events of ~80 years ago concerning conflict with christianity so i guess by your word play, world war 2 was a religious conflict because it was a previous conflict with christianity and no, i didn't misquote you. You're saying that christianity had nothing to do with the war - the vast majority of the combatants in the war were christian, in a war fought between christian nations - ergo, christianity took a back seat during the war (well, christians didn't, but christianity did) you can't have your cake and eat it, you're either saying it had nothing to do with the war, and therefore saying it took a back seat, or you're saying it had something to do with the war, contradicting what you've just said
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51109209]when i said modern conflict with islam i was contrasting it with the events of ~80 years ago concerning conflict with christianity so i guess by your word play, world war 2 was a religious conflict because it was a previous conflict with christianity and no, i didn't misquote you. You're saying that christianity had nothing to do with the war - the vast majority of the combatants in the war were christian, in a war fought between christian nations - ergo, christianity took a back seat during the war (well, christians didn't, but christianity did) you can't have your cake and eat it, you're either saying it had nothing to do with the war, and therefore saying it took a back seat, or you're saying it had something to do with the war, contradicting what you've just said[/QUOTE] I repeat, it had absolutely nothing to do with christian ideology. It simply wasn't a religious war. Hitler was Catholic.
I think what hes saying is that it isnt done in the name of Christianity
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109321]I repeat, it had absolutely nothing to do with christian ideology. It simply wasn't a religious war. Hitler was Catholic.[/QUOTE] right, so you're saying christianity took a back seat also why did you mention hitler being catholic
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51109348]right, so you're saying christianity took a back seat also why did you mention hitler being catholic[/QUOTE] No Christianity did not take a back seat because it had nothing to with Christianity. Example: The largest % of our armed forces in the Falklands were Christian but the Falklands war had nothing to do with Christianity or religion in fact. I mentioned Hitler being Catholic because he was largely responsible and he wasn't Christian. Did Catholicism take a back seat?
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109395] I mentioned Hitler being Catholic because he was largely responsible and he wasn't Christian. [/QUOTE] catholicism is the largest christian church what are you even saying how can he be catholic and not christian
I think he means that hitler wasnt religious?
[url]https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=is%20catholic%20christian[/url]
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109489][url]https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=is%20catholic%20christian[/url][/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_denomination[/url] ?????
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109489][url]https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=is%20catholic%20christian[/url][/QUOTE] Wait what...? The three biggest schools of christianity in Europe are Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism.
[url]https://carm.org/is-catholicism-christian[/url] Ok we can beg to differ. Originally: No Christianity did not take a back seat because it had nothing to with Christianity. Example: The largest % of our armed forces in the Falklands were Christian but the Falklands war had nothing to do with Christianity or religion in fact.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109543][URL]https://carm.org/is-catholicism-christian[/URL] Ok we can beg to differ. Originally: No Christianity did not take a back seat because it had nothing to with Christianity. Example: The largest % of our armed forces in the Falklands were Christian but the Falklands war had nothing to do with Christianity or religion in fact.[/QUOTE] this is the first time i have EVER seen anyone think that catholics aren't christian also holy shit that source [quote]So, even though Roman Catholicism claims to be Christian and that it is the one true church, it violates the essentials of the Christian faith. It goes beyond what is written in God's word (1 Cor. 4:6). It denies the sole and true sovereignty of the living God by promoting prayer to and the worship of Mary. Also, it denies justification by faith alone in Christ alone. It is not a Christian church.[/quote] wow holy shit forget that, look at this [URL]https://carm.org/catholic-do-you-know-you-are-going-to-heaven[/URL] [url]https://carm.org/questions-for-roman-catholics[/url]
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51109579]this is the first time i have EVER seen anyone think that catholics aren't christian also holy shit that source wow holy shit forget that, look at this [URL]https://carm.org/catholic-do-you-know-you-are-going-to-heaven[/URL] [url]https://carm.org/questions-for-roman-catholics[/url][/QUOTE] Lot's of people don't think catholics are christian and there are other sources in the google link too but I notice you are now ignoring your original argument that you were persuing so fervently. So again.. No Christianity did not take a back seat because it had nothing to with Christianity. Example: The largest % of our armed forces in the Falklands were Christian but the Falklands war had nothing to do with Christianity or religion in fact.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109543]No Christianity did not take a back seat because it had nothing to with Christianity. Example: The largest % of our armed forces in the Falklands were Christian but the Falklands war had nothing to do with Christianity or religion in fact.[/QUOTE] So what does it matter? History is full of wars motivated by Christianity, and even the more recent ones that haven't been have still been faught by christians which means that christians are just as willing to wage war, commit genocide and murder?
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109635]Lot's of people don't think catholics are christian and there are other sources in the google link too but I notice you are now ignoring your original argument that you were persuing so fervently. So again.. No Christianity did not take a back seat because it had nothing to with Christianity. Example: The largest % of our armed forces in the Falklands were Christian but the Falklands war had nothing to do with Christianity or religion in fact.[/QUOTE] if you're sitting at the dinner table while we're having dinner, and suddenly you pull down your trousers and take a fucking enormous shit on the table, why do you expect me to immediately pick up my fork after the fact and yes, you're saying what i have been saying, christianity took a back seat in the war - unless you're saying it inspired christians to commit murder or some shit
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51109652]if you're sitting at the dinner table while we're having dinner, and suddenly you pull down your trousers and take a fucking enormous shit on the table, why do you expect me to immediately pick up my fork after the fact and yes, you're saying what i have been saying, christianity took a back seat in the war - unless you're saying it inspired christians to commit murder or some shit[/QUOTE] Every war has protagonists, most protagonists have a religion, this doesn't make every war a religious war. So NO I am disputing what you say.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109702]Every war has protagonists, most protagonists have a religion, this doesn't make every war a religious war. So NO I am disputing what you say.[/QUOTE] yes, not every war is a religious war, world war 2 wasn't a religious war so christianity took a back seat
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51109635]Lot's of people don't think catholics are christian and there are other sources in the google link too[/QUOTE] but catholics are christian? catholics are literally about as christian as you can get lol
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51108898]so are you saying that the only difference between europe and the middle-east is ~80 years? because that's how long it has been since the most costly war in terms of human life was predominantly fought by christian nations, and one of the most extensive genocides ever committed by human beings was performed by a predominantly christian nation[/QUOTE] No, and this false equivalency you're trying to pull isn't working on me-- nor will it work on anybody else who has an understanding of the Second World War and the current circumstances that are facing the world today. Hitler and the Nazis started World War II. Trying to lump France, the United Kingdom, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, fucking [i]Poland[/i], etc. into the same basket as them by saying they were all guilty of fighting some atrocious religious war for no good reason is horse shit. Hitler had a Catholic background and wanted to be a monk or a priest when he was a child, but he had completely moved away from that by the time he was an adult and only invoked Christian themes when it was politically-convenient for him to do so (such as when appealing to the Catholic Bavarians). Privately, he was critical of it, said Christianity was a weak and flabby religion... in fact, Hitler praised Islam in his criticism of Christianity: [i]"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"[/i] Hitler also made such statements as: 1) [i]"I can imagine people being enthusiastic about the paradise of Mohammed, but as for the insipid paradise of the Christians! In your lifetime, you used to hear the music of Richard Wagner. After your death, it will be nothing but hallelujahs, the waving of palms, children of an age for the feeding bottle, and hoary old men. The man of the isles pays homage to the forces of nature. But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A nigger with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in transubstantiation."[/i] 2) [i]"Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers-- already, you see, the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity-- then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented us from doing so."[/i] 3) [i]"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. The instructions of a hygienic nature that most religions gave, contributed to the foundation of organized communities. The precepts ordering people to wash, to avoid certain drinks, to fast at appointed dates, to take exercise, to rise with the sun, to climb to the top of the minaret-- all these were obligations invented by intelligent people. The exhortation to fight courageously is also self-explanatory. Observe, by the way, that, as a corollary, the Muslim was promised a paradise peopled with sensual girls, where wine flowed in streams-- a real earthly paradise. The Christians, on the other hand, declare themselves satisfied if after their death they are allowed to sing hallelujahs! Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that's why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline."[/i] And as far as the Nazis themselves go, I suggest you study how they tried to paganize the German youth. The Hitler Youth would sing songs about things like the sun rising in accordance with old Germanic rituals, how they wanted rid of the Jews, the pope, and how they wanted to be pagans once again. There's also Himmler's esoteric rituals and practices within the SS that attempted to channel ancient Germanic paganism and incorporate it into Nazi ideology, which absolutely must be considered. They weren't atheists, but they weren't Christian either. World War II was not a religious war. It was not a Christian war. It was not then and is not now comparable to what's currently going on in the Middle East with ISIS, Al-Nusra, the Taliban, etc. [i]That[/i] is a religious war. It is strictly a matter of religion-- not race or ethnicity (there's white guys who have converted to Islam fighting with those groups you know; I'm not saying that tribal issues aren't also at work in their treatment of certain groups, but within those tribal differences, there's religious conflict as well which cannot be ignored), not imperialism or lebensraum in the sense of what the Nazis sought, it's not a showdown between Fascism and Communism... it's strictly a religious war, and it's nothing like World War II.
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