[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49244703][I]You[/I] want a "licensing" system that can be abused in the same way as Britain's and an indefinite waiting period on background checks.
You may not be pro confiscation but you're definitely pro elimination.
Maybe if you swear some more like a 10 year old whose parents aren't home I'll be convinced but it's not helping so far.[/QUOTE]
I never said indefinite! Never once did I say indefinite! Quote precisely where I said indefinite waiting periods were okay! I said MANDATE IT (as YOU ALSO DID) that the FBI be [B]REQUIRED[/B] to do background checks, and if it takes too long for them to do so I explained how you can go about fixing it! I said what I did about impatient people because the people who called for the bit where if you wait longer than three days, well here's your gun, no background check necessary, is a FLAW IN THE SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED. Stop putting words in my mouth, we're literally arguing for the SAME THING and yet you're arguing with me for some bizarro reason and I don't understand why.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;49244710]People like you are very specifically why I've try not to argue over the internet anymore. You and the relevant in this thread that has managed to make everything venomous and has eliminated humility. It's no longer a rational discussion that provides a healthy, civil discussion of differences and compromises betwen two different points of view, it's just ego-stroking, aggression, and super lame.
Really though - you in particular need to chill out. Or don't! But just realize you're not making the argument accessible for others - toxicity can be nothing more than alienating.[/QUOTE]
I get that, but look back in these threads and see what's happened. I suggested a fix to the flaw in the background check system, which these guys say MUST be done because it's their JOB, and these guys automatically assume that I don't want them to get guns because the FBI can't do its job, when I've mentioned [B]MULTIPLE TIMES[/B] that there are ways to fix the waiting periods: Either petition Congress to expand the FBI's capabilities to perform background checks, or move that task to an organization with access to the necessary information who can properly do the job. They've literally argued the same point that I'm arguing, and yet they're arguing against the points that support their points, and it makes no sense and it's frustrating as all hell.
[editline]4th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49244778]Mind that 'proper training' in 1787 entailed being shown how to put powder, patch and ball in your rifle and being left to your own devices after that. It was on you to practice or not. Wise? Debatable. But that's how it was.[/QUOTE]
Proper training for a fire-arm back then didn't need much more, due to the mechanical simplicity of the fire-arms in question and the fact that the best you could do after loading it was point it roughly in the direction of the thing you wanted to shoot at and pull the trigger (they weren't particularly complicated, nor accurate). It would also have done them well to know how much powder to put in, how to pack it, how to prepare it to fire, etc., and with the growing capabilities of fire-arms it makes sense to mandate proper training on their use, does it not?
I'd ijust like to point out that the muskets used by the military may have been inaccurate as shit at the time but civilian guns where generally far more accurate (rifling, longer barrels) and thus could be aimed with s
Reasonable accuracy (how else would they hunt)
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/04/socal-jihadist-wife-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-report/[/url]
Dumb bitch pledged allegiance to ISIS.
[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49245333][url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/04/socal-jihadist-wife-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-report/[/url]
Dumb bitch pledged allegiance to ISIS.[/QUOTE]
That is literally the last thing we needed. People are already freaking out about Muslim Americans as it is.
im still laughing because everybody was screaming about how it was gonna be white people who did this
those people are silent now, i wonder why?
[QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;49245496]im still laughing because everybody was screaming about how it was gonna be white people who did this
those people are silent now, i wonder why?[/QUOTE]
I had a SJW cousin who immediately related it to the shooting at the blm protest here in MN and as soon as she found out the shooters were Muslim she deleted everything and started spouting shit about solidarity.
[QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;49245496]im still laughing because everybody was screaming about how it was gonna be white people who did this
those people are silent now, i wonder why?[/QUOTE]
The shooters were reported as white
Would it have not been safe to assume at that moment that they were, given no consistent or reliable contradiction? Did you immediately assume against all indications that the shooters were muslims?
[QUOTE=Milkdairy;49245635]Would it have not been safe to assume at that moment that they were, given no consistent or reliable contradiction? Did you immediately assume against all indications that the shooters were muslims?[/QUOTE]
What indications? That it was a workplace incident? Because only white people shoot up public spaces over personal disputes, right?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49245656]What indications? That it was a workplace incident? Because only white people shoot up public spaces over personal disputes, right?[/QUOTE]
No, I mean the shooters were reported by witnesses as white males at a time when barely any other information was available. It's unreasonable to put those people who believed those reports in a bad or malicious light, as if it's some cancerous SJW thing
frankly im not very surprised by the outcome of the situation,but I dont think anyone wasactually wishing they were white or something like that
So we have mentally ill teenagers shooting up schools, isis affiliated terrorists shooting up streets, white supremacists shooting up churches and right wingers shooting up abortion clinics. I'm wondering what the common problem is here... must be mental health.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49245705]So we have mentally ill teenagers shooting up schools, isis affiliated terrorists shooting up streets, white supremacists shooting up churches and right wingers shooting up abortion clinics. I'm wondering what the common problem is here... must be mental health.[/QUOTE]
I don't get this post... you're right?
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49245705]So we have mentally ill teenagers shooting up schools, isis affiliated terrorists shooting up streets, white supremacists shooting up churches and right wingers shooting up abortion clinics. I'm wondering what the common problem is here... must be mental health.[/QUOTE]
Well a normal well minded person wouldn't think preforming a mass murder is a good idea, so yes
Uh huh. Clearly everyone who has committed a mass shooting would have stopped with the intervention of mental healthcare.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49245767]Uh huh. Clearly everyone who has committed a mass shooting would have stopped with the intervention of mental healthcare.[/QUOTE]
This is not the case at all. Most shooters are assholes, not insane.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;49245733]I don't get this post... you're right?[/QUOTE]
At the core of it it's probably all related to mental health, when speaking about the actual motivating factor (rather than the ability to carry put the atrocity)
It goes without saying that the mentally ill or mentally disturbed are more susceptible to ideology, often which is violent or discriminatory. No normal person would shoot up a planned parenthood clinic in the name of anti-abortion, but a disturbed person who has subscribed to those ideals and sees no limit to how far they can reasonably go will end up doing that kind of thing
What disturbs me is how this American born muslim dude threw away his stable, well paying job and good life and everything for basically getting offed by police, and ultimately his actions will be totally meanigless in the grand scheme of things. He threw his entire life away for nothing. It just goes to show how effective Islam is at making very, very devout believers. This kind of situation goes beyond mental health, to be honest. Islam as a religion appears to have become the ideal apparatus for establishing conformity and faith, and that has a great effect on people who are radicalized by terrorist groups.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49245767]Uh huh. Clearly everyone who has committed a mass shooting would have stopped with the intervention of mental healthcare.[/QUOTE]
And your alternative is, rather than admit that flukes occur and violence can only be curbed, not stopped, to remove millions of dollars of property from millions of law abiding citizens? You understand that when you try to draw the conclusion that gun ownership is the sole common denominator among shooters, that entire argument immediately disintegrates in the face of the massive, massive legal & responsible ownership rates?
snip
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;49245782]I think SeamanStain's being sarcastic of people saying Mental health programs would fix this, instead of banning all guns.[/QUOTE]
He is another ignorant Brit who thinks he knows what's best for everyone else in the world because it's obviously working so well in the United Kingdom, which is a crime-free wonderland thanks to their restriction on firearms.
Actually, poorer areas with more severe social decay have higher crime rates in the UK. Just like America.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49245776]And your alternative is, rather than admit that flukes occur and violence can only be curbed, not stopped, to remove millions of dollars of property from millions of law abiding citizens?[/QUOTE]
It's your country, not mine, but that has been done twice in the past with success. I'm guessing the price tag would be significantly more than "millions of dollars", but there's no reason the US government couldn't pay that if they wanted to.
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;49245782]snip[/QUOTE]
No gun law would have stopped this shooting, did you see the guns they had? They weren't legal in my state of CA
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49245792]It's your country, not mine, but that has been done twice in the past with success. I'm guessing the price tag would be significantly more than "millions of dollars", but there's no reason the US government couldn't pay that if they wanted to.[/QUOTE]
Kindly carefully remove your head from your asshole and take a look at the facts, not the news. Violent crime in the US is does not correlate to legal firearms ownership, but it directly correlates to poverty levels and inefficiency/corruption in government. You know - the same as your country. Which, I'll add, still has firearms crime.
By all available evidence this recent shooter in California was completely mentally stable.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49245792]It's your country, not mine, but that has been done twice in the past with success. I'm guessing the price tag would be significantly more than "millions of dollars", but there's no reason the US government couldn't pay that if they wanted to.[/QUOTE]
You are assuming a country that grew up with it as a fundamental right, a country with so much put into the firearms industry with millions working in manufacturing companies or in mom and pop stores, a country where nearly a third of the population own firearms, a country with a huge participation in competitive shooting sports, can somehow be completely dismantled in a logistical manner and nobody will say a word.
Sort of breaking news: The land lord just unlocked the apartment and now there's like 30 media members in the apartment going through all of their shit and contaminating a crime scene related to a terrorist investigation.
What the fuck.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49245828]By all available evidence this recent shooter in California was completely mentally stable.[/QUOTE]
What sounds mentally stable to you about someone who has an argument with a coworker, goes home, comes back with his wife and a bag full of bombs and murders as many people as he can? Additionally there was a long breakdown of psychological issues this guy had including a military discharge for it.
[editline]4th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=-nesto-;49245840]Sort of breaking news: The land lord just unlocked the apartment and now there's like 30 media members in the apartment going through all of their shit and contaminating a crime scene related to a terrorist investigation.
What the fuck.[/QUOTE]
Hit them all with felony charges.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49245828]By all available evidence this recent shooter in California was completely mentally stable.[/QUOTE]
It would appear that he was radicalized by his wife, as she is a Pakistani national who he met in Saudi Arabia, as well as being the one who actually posted that ISIS allegiance pledge
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;49245822]Kindly carefully remove your head from your asshole and take a look at the facts, not the news. Violent crime in the US is does not correlate to legal firearms ownership, but it directly correlates to poverty levels and inefficiency/corruption in government. You know - the same as your country. Which, I'll add, still has firearms crime.[/QUOTE]
You speak of facts and ignore the fact that the UK has had two mass shootings in two decades, and the US has had two in under the span of a week. What a radical idea that somehow not having easy access to firearms makes crime with firearms less likely.
[QUOTE=Milkdairy;49245860]It would appear that he was radicalized by his wife, as she is a Pakistani national who he met in Saudi Arabia, as well as being the one who actually posted that ISIS allegiance pledge[/QUOTE]
This is going to fuel the anti-refugee fire like no other. If she was vetted and let in(she would get the same vetting process for her visa), how can you vet thousands of refugees.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;49245872]You speak of facts and ignore the fact that the UK has had two mass shootings in two decades, and the US has had two in under the span of a week. What a radical idea that somehow not having easy access to firearms makes crime with firearms less likely.[/QUOTE]
Good luck taking away millions of guns from people who rather die than give them up.
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;49245879]Good luck taking away millions of guns from people who rather die than give them up.[/QUOTE]
Not only that, 300 million guns exist in the hands of legal owners. The logistics behind that is retardedly impossible. Another reason gun bans are stupid and don't work.
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