The end of free internet: US Senate Committee Approves Internet “Blacklist” Bill - Polidicks

[QUOTE=snuwoods;27470259]Pirating isn't stealing. Stealing requires that the owner no longer possesses an object. The internet is immaterial, there is nothing to steal; it's all duplicated bits and bytes.[/QUOTE] It causes the owner to lose/not gain money they deserve for it. You're taking money, a material object, from them.

Free Internet? I pay $200 a month for mine, I'd like to know who's getting their internet for free

[QUOTE=snuwoods;27470259]Pirating isn't stealing. Stealing requires that the owner no longer possesses an object. The internet is immaterial, there is nothing to steal; it's all duplicated bits and bytes.[/QUOTE] What about Steam? Would you argue downloading a game that is only available on Steam, not stealing?

this will literally never pass

Don't worry, they wanted to do it in Australia too, I think we're good now.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27467173]So it's unjust to make a law not to steal music/films/TV shows instead of paying for them? Alright, then by that logic if someone steals your possessions, your car, your computer, your movies, your music, your money, your house, they can keep it, and the law won't help you, but that's a good thing! Because stopping that criminal would be unjust. :downs:[/QUOTE] As a musician myself, and as someone who understands the film industry/works in it [b]Piracy is not killing anything[/b] Again, I repeat [b]Piracy is not killing anything[/b] Musicians make shit all money from record sales either way. Movies make the vast, vast majority of their money in theatres, and if piracy is killing the film industry, I'd like to know why it's making more money now, than ever before, and bitching MORE about piracy than ever before. As a musician myself, I'd LOVE it if people torrented my music. Hey, it's FREE publicity, it creates a fanbase world wide, far wider than I can ever convince some self interested record company to push my shit, hell, it gives me the potential for new tour locations, that's how musicians make money. Touring. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27470381]It causes the owner to lose/not gain money they deserve for it. You're taking money, a material object, from them.[/QUOTE] Not really. That assumes someone planned on buying in the first place. the argument of "potential profit loss" is empty and null. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=5killer;27471065]What about Steam? Would you argue downloading a game that is only available on Steam, not stealing?[/QUOTE] You. Can't. Steal. It's duplication, it's not stealing. It's stealing if they planned to buy it and instead did not. It's not stealing if there's no intent to buy. Considering the facts that literally NO industry is dying from piracy right now(Music industry is dying of it's own idiocy), the argument about how bad piracy is and how much damage it's done, is starting to get ridiculous.

Is there anything about this that makes it unconstitutional so that it will be repealed as soon as it's passed? [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] *if it's passed*

Hell, I'm not even defending piracy. But if you think this legislation, or any other will help the problem or is a good thing, you're wrong. You can't stop pirates at this point, and even if you can later, they'll find a way. They always do. They always will. I don't like my freedoms being infringed trying to stop them with no success even possible.

[QUOTE=snuwoods;27470259]Pirating isn't stealing. Stealing requires that the owner no longer possesses an object. The internet is immaterial, there is nothing to steal; it's all duplicated bits and bytes.[/QUOTE] Nope, pirating is technically stealing. [quote=definition of stealing] the act of taking something from someone unlawfully; In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consen[/quote] Technically you're stealing their intellectual property, just because you didn't steal a physical object doesn't mean you didn't steal.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27467642]You basically said, "It's illegal to steal (music, films, TV shows) in some states, but enforcing a country-wide 'no-stealing' law is obscene!" Great argument. :downs:[/QUOTE] It is actually. How do you propose you stop piracy without wrecking the normal persons life? You can't. You won't. Ever. Try. please do. You'll just step on everyone else's toes in the process and you'll STILL have piracy in the end.

It's funny how so little people understand how our legislative branch actually works

[QUOTE=Kiwi Bird;27472030]It's funny how so little people understand how our legislative branch actually works[/QUOTE] It's because a lot of people aren't even from the states.

WELL I'M FUCKING OUT OF THIS COUNTRY NOW IF IT EVER PASSES c

You can't use the internet, the computer, any electronic device, and the mail is the only way to stop piracy.

[QUOTE=supersnail11;27472069]You can't use the internet, the computer, any electronic device, and the mail is the only way to stop piracy.[/QUOTE] Basically. It's strange. People here seem to think piracy is new or something. Do none of you know about tape sharing? Or any of that crap in the 80's? It's not like people paid for music back then either, and it's not like [b]the recording artist many of you posters here are trying to protect[/b] ever made money off of those outside of platinum selling albums. It's seriously nothing to do with recording music that makes you money.

And this, my friends, is why we make sure we know anything about how government works at all before we go posting things like this. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] Also you'd be amazed at how much piracy gets you. A lot of companies actually upload their stuff to torrent sites and whatnot for this reason.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27472001]It is actually. How do you propose you stop piracy without wrecking the normal persons life? You can't. You won't. Ever. Try. please do. You'll just step on everyone else's toes in the process and you'll STILL have piracy in the end.[/QUOTE] 'Normal person'? So the 'normal' person commits internet piracy? And even if that fallacious statement was true, it doesn't excuse not reforming you. You can't just say 'OH NO CANT DO DAT CUZ NORMAL PEOPLE WOULDNT BE HAPPY' and think it's a legitimate argument. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ballads;27471343]is it me or the beginning of this thread was a flame war?[/QUOTE] All of it's become a flamewar. FP's internet piraters and anti-piracy-ers are all duking it out.

[QUOTE=Jewsus;27465560]This bill got passed by the Senate Judiciary committee in the last session. That means that it didn't no longer exists because it didn't pass before the new congress took over. OP needs to do his research. I'll repeat. [B]THE BILL NEVER MADE IT TO EITHER THE HOUSE OR SENATE FLOOR.[/B][/QUOTE] Oh thank GOD...

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472240]'Normal person'? So the 'normal' person commits internet piracy? And even if that fallacious statement was true, it doesn't excuse not reforming you. You can't just say 'OH NO CANT DO DAT CUZ NORMAL PEOPLE WOULDNT BE HAPPY' and think it's a legitimate argument. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] All of it's become a flamewar. FP's internet piraters and anti-piracy-ers are all duking it out.[/QUOTE] So you'd be ok with laws that restricted your freedom, stopped you from doing things, but pirates STILL got away with it due to new loop holes? Ok, have fun with that. You also didn't seem to understand my point, no normal people don't pirate, but a law that stops pirates will fuck with the normal persons life.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27472097]Basically. It's strange. People here seem to think piracy is new or something. Do none of you know about tape sharing? Or any of that crap in the 80's? It's not like people paid for music back then either, and it's not like [B]the recording artist many of you posters here are trying to protect[/B] ever made money off of those outside of platinum selling albums. It's seriously nothing to do with recording music that makes you money.[/QUOTE] You want a game. It costs 50 bucks at the store. You go to Pirate Bay. You download the game for free. You cost the game company 50 bucks. You stole. This isn't just about music. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27472280]So you'd be ok with laws that restricted your freedom, stopped you from doing things, but pirates STILL got away with it due to new loop holes? Ok, have fun with that. You also didn't seem to understand my point, no normal people don't pirate, but a law that stops pirates will fuck with the normal persons life.[/QUOTE] 'Restricts my freedom'? You must be an extremely hardcore anarchist or something if you think blacklisting piracy websites (PirateBay, etc) is 'a restriction of freedom'.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472281]You want a game. It costs 50 bucks at the store. You go to Pirate Bay. You download the game for free. You cost the game company 50 bucks. You stole. This isn't just about music. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] 'Restricts my freedom'? You must be an extremely hardcore anarchist or something if you think blacklisting piracy websites (PirateBay, etc) is 'a restriction of freedom'.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about games. And that assumes that everyone who pirates the game ever planned on buying it, "potential profit" means jack shit. Uh, nope. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only that knows that anti piracy laws effect everyone but the pirates. Drug laws affect everyone but the drug dealer, etc. They're going to break the law and do what they want to anyways.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27472334]I'm not talking about games. And that assumes that everyone who pirates the game ever planned on buying it, "potential profit" means jack shit. Uh, nope. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only that knows that anti piracy laws effect everyone but the pirates. Drug laws affect everyone but the drug dealer, etc. They're going to break the law and do what they want to anyways.[/QUOTE] Not if we trace them down and arrest them.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472366]Not if we trace them down and arrest them.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that sure has worked well to this day, that's going to be easy. Tracking them down and arresting them. For dangerous, dangerous crimes. Against humanity. Hell, just look at how well the drug war worked at tracking down and stopping those guys.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472281]You cost the game company 50 bucks.[/QUOTE] Huh? No they're just not making as much as they could. If more game companies put out non-preorder demos/betas then I don't think pirating games would be as much of a problem. i.e I thought the Bioshock demo was fucking great so I preordered it, and then I was somewhat disappointed by the game as a whole. Sure I felt like I wasted my money, but they actually made me want it first.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472281]You stole.[/QUOTE] [img]http://guides.gamepressure.com/theelderscrolls4oblivion/gfx/word/164868265.jpg[/img] Moving on. WRONG SIR. You do not cost the company 50 dollars. It does not TAKE MONEY from the company. It simply doesn't GIVE them money. Not giving != Taking

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27472395]Yeah, that sure has worked well to this day, that's going to be easy. Tracking them down and arresting them. For dangerous, dangerous crimes. Against humanity. Hell, just look at how well the drug war worked at tracking down and stopping those guys.[/QUOTE] Because the drug war involves hundreds of thousands of crime bosses with global syndicates armed to the teeth, and they have bribe money and infiltrated operatives to combat the government. Piracy involves basement-dwelling, acne-ridden couch potatoes with a plastic Star Wars lightsaber to defend themselves. I'd say the piraters are much easier to take down. And it's not a horrible crime against humanity to commit internet piracy, but it doesn't give you any right to do: if you take candy away from a baby, that's not a crime against humanity. But does that give you a right to do it? No.

[QUOTE=Hesychasmos;27472414]Huh? No they're just not making as much as they could. If more game companies put out non-preorder demos/betas then I don't think pirating games would be as much of a problem. i.e I thought the Bioshock demo was fucking great so I preordered it, and then I was somewhat disappointed by the game as a whole. Sure I felt like I wasted my money, but they actually made me want it first.[/QUOTE] Dead Rising 2: Case Zero was the best idea ever. Games should all do something like that. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472452]Because the drug war involves hundreds of thousands of crime bosses with global syndicates armed to the teeth with bribe money and infiltrated agents in the governments. These are basement-dwelling, acne-ridden couch potatoes with a plastic Star Wars lightsaber to defend themselves. I'd say the piraters are much easier to take down. And it's not a horrible crime against humanity to commit internet piracy, but it doesn't give you any right to do: if you take candy away from a baby, that's not a crime against humanity. But does that give you a right to do it? No.[/QUOTE] No, and I'm not arguing that. And no they aren't. Pirates are just about every type and variation of person. You're a stereotyping douche if that's what you truly believe. And it's not nearly as easy as you think it is, and it's not nearly as cut and dry as you think it is. But hey, you clearly know something about piracy and everything surrounding it that I don't.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472366]Not if we trace them down and arrest them.[/QUOTE] Thats suck a waste of resources. You know just coping a song and sending a file to a friend is also considered pirating but yet its something someone can do in a minute. I dont want to talk to much about this cause I dont want to get banned because a mod thinks im supporting piracy though.

When any company sells their shit, they usually make the original money put into making the content, and then some. Sure, they may not make that 20 dollars they could have if you bought the album, but it doesn't matter because some people [b]are[/b] buying the album. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] In before everyone gets banned for warez.

[QUOTE=tomoom165;27472554]When any company sells their shit, they usually make the original money put into making the content, and then some. Sure, they may not make that 20 dollars they could have if you bought the album, but it doesn't matter because some people [b]are[/b] buying the album. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] In before everyone gets banned for warez.[/QUOTE] Not to mention the concert. which will have hundreds to thousands of people paying money to see.