The end of free internet: US Senate Committee Approves Internet “Blacklist” Bill - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Matrix374;27473497]Piracy is hurting me and some people though[/QUOTE] May I ask how?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473504]Yep, the same view of moral absolutism. Great. Here's how you're not. Piracy. Isn't. Stealing. I'm done. You won't say anything new, you're just going to continue this with the same few words over and over again.[/QUOTE] Obtaining something in a shady manner without paying = stealing. Oh and thanks for admitting defeat.

Piracy is not thievery, it's piracy, and even that term was created just to make it look dark. If they deserve the money then they'd get it. If you make a shitty product, and charge too much for it then people are going to simply pirate your product, whatever that product might be. In the case of music, piracy hurts nobody but record companies; the artists make the vast bulk of their money by touring, and record companies are nothing but dirty thieves in the first place, no harm done. Movies: Well, clearly since movies are still being made despite the "crippling" amount of piracy I can't imagine that many people are being hurt by it. Maybe the movie industry will just need to settle more a slight reduction in their stacks and stacks of cold hard cash, its an industry with a ridiculous profit margin and piracy barely puts a dent it in. take into account that people didnt even have VHS or DVDs and the movie industry got along just fine by being shown in the theater, and box office hits hit way harder than they used to. Now, software companies do not need to worry about piracy very often. Most of their money comes from legitimate business licenses, there's simply no way for an entire company to pirate software. Now, for the individual seat licenses, if the company makes a program that is not worth the pricetag, they'll simply need to try harder next time. [U]If somebody pirates your shitty program, then the chances are they were never going to buy it in the first place[/U]. If you make a crappy product, and somebody pirates it, then it happened because you made an inferior product and sold it for way more than it was worth. You wouldn't have made money from them anyways. Piracy is not in the same category as stealing considering it's impossible to actually steal copied data, so your "stealing is wrong" argument is null in this case, especially since companies dont even really lose any money over it. Now, what is fundamentally wrong is lobbyists and governments abusing their power, trying to throttle control from a system's whos sole purpose is the exchange of information. For the fact that's it's not even stealing, people are going to have to try a lot harder if they are going to force their corrupt principles down peoples throats

[QUOTE=Armotekma;27473523]You realize, once (someone or group) acquires a power, they aren't going to stop at Piracy? I'm sure there's a bit more than file-sharing sites they would like to ban.[/QUOTE] (See Abyss? A GOOD ARGUMENT) True, but I doubt legislature would let it go any farther than stopping piracy sites. Government's corrupt and all, but something so blatantly abusive of freedom of speech wouldn't be taken likely by the public.

[QUOTE=Armotekma;27473523]You realize, once (someone or group) acquires a power, they aren't going to stop at Piracy? I'm sure there's a bit more than file-sharing sites they would like to ban.[/QUOTE] This is an incredibly good point. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473535]Obtaining something in a shady manner without paying = stealing. Oh and thanks for admitting defeat.[/QUOTE] Because someone who literally can't change their fucking mind is "winning". Me getting annoyed enough to say "i'm done repeating the same arguments over and over again" isn't you winning. There's nothing new to be said of this by either of us.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473524]You know what the biggest, best solution to all of this is though? The one thing that makes piracy so unimaginable stupid? [b]You can just pay for the damn thing in the first place.[/b][/QUOTE] Why would I have to spend 50-odd dollars on any game that would not have any form of replay value or a strong multiplayer community?

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473550](See Abyss? A GOOD ARGUMENT) True, but I doubt legislature would let it go any farther than stopping piracy sites. Government's corrupt and all, but something so blatantly abusive of freedom of speech wouldn't be taken likely by the public.[/QUOTE] hey, can you point out where you've [b]even made a fucking argument[/b]?

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;27473549]Piracy is not thievery, it's piracy, and even that term was created just to make it look dark. If they deserve the money then they'd get it. If you make a shitty product, and charge too much for it then people are going to simply pirate your product, whatever that product might be. In the case of music, piracy hurts nobody but record companies; the artists make the vast bulk of their money by touring, and record companies are nothing but dirty thieves in the first place, no harm done. Movies: Well, clearly since movies are still being made despite the "crippling" amount of piracy I can't imagine that many people are being hurt by it. Maybe the movie industry will just need to settle more a slight reduction in their stacks and stacks of cold hard cash, its an industry with a ridiculous profit margin and piracy barely puts a dent it in. take into account that people didnt even have VHS or DVDs and the movie industry got along just fine by being shown in the theater. Now, software companies do not need to worry about piracy very often. Most of their money comes from legitimate business licenses, there's simply no way for an entire company to pirate software. Now, for the individual seat licenses, if the company makes a program that is not worth the pricetag, they'll simply need to try harder next time. [U]If somebody pirates your shitty program, then the chances are they were never going to buy it in the first place[/U]. If you make a crappy product, and somebody pirates it, then it happened because you made an inferior product and sold it for way more than it was worth. You wouldn't have made money from them anyways. Now, piracy is not in the same category as stealing considering it's impossible to actually steal copied data, so your "stealing is wrong" argument is null in this case, especially since companies dont even really lose any money over it. Now, what is fundamentally wrong is lobbyists and governments abusing their power, trying to throttle control from a system's whos sole purpose is the exchange of information. For the fact that's it's not even stealing, people are going to have to try a lot harder if they are going to force their corrupt principles down peoples throats[/QUOTE] "a ridiculous profit margin", "dirty thieves"? It's wrong to illegally take something from someone because they make a lot of money and you're too pisspoor to pay for it? Newsflash Robin Hood, that shit doesn't work in the modern age. And even if the product is shitty, that doesn't mean you can get it without paying for it. Whether you intend to buy it or not, taking something without paying for it or consent from its owner IS STEALING. Record companies say they don't want people pirating their music, game companies say they don't want people pirating their games, directors say they don't want people pirating their movies. IF THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO TAKE IT WITHOUT PAYING, AND YOU DO, THAT'S STEALING. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=CabooseRvB;27473576]Why would I have to spend 50-odd dollars on any game that would not have any form of replay value or a strong multiplayer community?[/QUOTE] Because that's what the company lists its price as, that's what most people pay for it. You have to spend money on things because that's how society works. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473579]hey, can you point out where you've [B]even made a fucking argument[/B]?[/QUOTE] Quid pro quo vice versa, my friend.

[b] If somebody pirates your shitty program, then the chances are they were never going to buy it in the first place.[/b] HOLY FUCK GMOD TRY READING. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] You "win" because you're illiterate apparently.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473620][B] If somebody pirates your shitty program, then the chances are they were never going to buy it in the first place.[/B] HOLY FUCK GMOD TRY READING. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] You "win" because you're illiterate apparently.[/QUOTE] [B]Who cares if you didn't plan to buy it? You have to pay money for it to get it. You bypass that by pirating. It doesn't matter if you wanted to fucking buy it or not, you got the fucking thing without paying the damn cost. THAT'S STEALING. PAY FOR IT OR DON'T FUCKING GET IT.[/B]

That's been my argument the whole time, i've made it so many times and you've ignored it every time. Why do you think you're able to just bypass that? I've made my fucking argument. It's your fault for not reading it. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473648][b]Who cares if you didn't plan to buy it? You have to pay money for it to get it. You bypass that by pirating. It doesn't matter if you wanted to fucking buy it or not, you got the fucking thing without paying the damn cost. THAT'S STEALING.[/b][/QUOTE] It's. Not. Stealing. If. They. Don't. Lose. Anything. see. Moral absolutism. Can't be argued with. Ever. So that's why I'm done.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473650]That's been my argument the whole time, i've made it so many times and you've ignored it every time. Why do you think you're able to just bypass that? I've made my fucking argument. It's your fault for not reading it.[/QUOTE] I've countered it several times, but you retort with "omg u stoopid ilileirater".

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473662]I've countered it several times, but you retort with "omg u stoopid ilileirater".[/QUOTE] No, you just simply say "nope, stealing". that's not arguing. That's moral absolutism.

[QUOTE=Saxon;27469552] Last time I checked this didn't even block Torrent sites, just sites that are directly violating the law by providing direct downloads.[/QUOTE] Which virtually none do. Most that have direct downloads are just blog site pages with links to Rapidshare.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27472334] Uh, nope. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only that knows that anti piracy laws effect everyone but the pirates. Drug laws affect everyone but the drug dealer, etc. They're going to break the law and do what they want to anyways.[/QUOTE] Oh, and i'm pretty sure this is an argument you simply didn't respond to. I love how you think you argue by just saying soemthing.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473666]No, you just simply say "nope, stealing". that's not arguing. That's moral absolutism.[/QUOTE] ....your point? If your parents taught you anything, it's that stealing is wrong. Law says stealing is wrong. If you're religious, the Bible says it's wrong. Society says it's wrong. I'm not exactly on a disagreed-with side here. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473681]Oh, and i'm pretty sure this is an argument you simply didn't respond to. I love how you think you argue by just saying soemthing.[/QUOTE] [quote=Gmod_Fan77]Because the drug war involves hundreds of thousands of crime bosses with global syndicates armed to the teeth, and they have bribe money and infiltrated operatives to combat the government. Piracy involves basement-dwelling, acne-ridden couch potatoes with a plastic Star Wars lightsaber to defend themselves. I'd say the piraters are much easier to take down. And it's not a horrible crime against humanity to commit internet piracy, but it doesn't give you any right to do: if you take candy away from a baby, that's not a crime against humanity. But does that give you a right to do it? No. [/quote]

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473684]....your point? If your parents taught you anything, it's that stealing is wrong. Law says stealing is wrong. If you're religious, the Bible says it's wrong. Society says it's wrong. I'm not exactly on a disagreed-with side here. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline][/QUOTE] AND I'M NOT SAYING STEALING IS OK. Holy shit. Hell, I fucking refuted that, but hey, you're ok with repeating the same shit all over again.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473601]"a ridiculous profit margin", "dirty thieves"? It's wrong to illegally take something from someone because they make a lot of money and you're too pisspoor to pay for it? Newsflash Robin Hood, that shit doesn't work in the modern age. And even if the product is shitty, that doesn't mean you can get it without paying for it. Whether you intend to buy it or not, taking something without paying for it or consent from its owner IS STEALING. Record companies say they don't want people pirating their music, game companies say they don't want people pirating their games, directors say they don't want people pirating their movies. IF THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO TAKE IT WITHOUT PAYING, AND YOU DO, THAT'S STEALING.[/QUOTE] Hey, you got my nickname. newflash, uh evidentally it does work in the modern age. God forbid people should actually have to make quality products. [quote]And even if the product is shitty, that doesn't mean you can get it without paying for it[/quote]I guess it does :rolleye: [quote]Whether you intend to buy it or not, taking something without paying for it or consent from its owner IS STEALING[/quote]data is intellectual, it's not stealing. If you don't want people to "illegally" download your stuff, then you need to A) make good drm or B) Make a quality product so people actually will buy it. [quote] IF THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO TAKE IT WITHOUT PAYING, AND YOU DO, THAT'S STEALING. [/quote]Its like trying to claim the water in oceans. If you cant keep a lid on your data then it's not "yours." you may have wrote the program, the song, or the movie buy once it's floating around in binary its not physical property, it's data, ergo it cannot be stolen, it can ONLY be copied. What you are talking about is "illegal copying" your morals about stealing do not apply since its not property theft.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473601]"a ridiculous profit margin", "dirty thieves"? It's wrong to illegally take something from someone because they make a lot of money and you're too pisspoor to pay for it? Newsflash Robin Hood, that shit doesn't work in the modern age.[/QUOTE] Uhh we don't give games away to the poorer, we just keep it to ourselves. You can't even use Robin Hood right. [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473601]And even if the product is shitty, that doesn't mean you can get it without paying for it. Whether you intend to buy it or not, taking something without paying for it or consent from its owner IS STEALING. Record companies say they don't want people pirating their music, game companies say they don't want people pirating their games, directors say they don't want people pirating their movies. IF THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO TAKE IT WITHOUT PAYING, AND YOU DO, THAT'S STEALING.[/quote] So when I hear a song that I have not heard before on a youtube video which just so happens to have the lyrics pasted into them and I just so happen to have a mp3 converter, I'm stealing the music? Well golly-gee, I have hundreds of that in my iPod. I hope the dogs won't sniff 'em out. [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473601]Because that's what the company lists its price as, that's what most people pay for it. You have to spend money on things because that's how society works.[/QUOTE] Activision releases a single Call of Duty title every year since Call of Duty 2 averaging 60 dollars on release. I'm supposed to be a servile peasant and have them take my money so hastily?

Intellectual property is such a vague term. It technically applies to anything you've written down in your own words. That means shit all. And yes gmod, that is relevant to the thread. But i'm going to bed. I'm tired of telling you the same thing and having you tell me the same thing over and over again.

[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;27473710]Activision releases a single Call of Duty title every year since Call of Duty 2 averaging 60 dollars on release. I'm supposed to be a servile peasant and have them take my money so hastily?[/QUOTE] Pay for it or don't get it, not a hard concept. And with that, I go to work. I'll gladly continue this argument later. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473730]Intellectual property is such a vague term. It technically applies to anything you've written down in your own words. That means shit all. And yes gmod, that is relevant to the thread. But i'm going to bed. I'm tired of telling you the same thing and having you tell me the same thing over and over again.[/QUOTE] The cannons are being reloaded with our simultaneous partings, and on the 'morrow they shall roar once more.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473527]May I ask how?[/QUOTE] its hurting me by not letting me have the satisfaction of playing games online. What does this have to do with Piracy?I have to borrow my mom's credit card,get her permission and then pay her. And because of that we have a small gaming community and its harder to easily get things

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473739]Pay for it or don't get it, not a hard concept. And with that, I go to work. I'll gladly continue this argument later. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] The cannons are being reloaded with our simultaneous partings, and on the 'morrow they shall roar once more.[/QUOTE] You visit every section and shit on every thread you make yourself known in. I've already seen your garbage in the screenshots section.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473739]Pay for it or don't get it, not a hard concept. And with that, I go to work. I'll gladly continue this argument later. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] The cannons are being reloaded with our simultaneous partings, and on the 'morrow they shall roar once more.[/QUOTE] No. I'm done with you. I'm done with your bullshit. I remember our arguments about drug legalization and how fucking dense you were there when it comes to quantifiable shit. You did the same thing here, and you also relied on incredible ignorance and naivity of the topic to make your points which were as hollow as they get. You're literally the same here. So fuck you, i'm done. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Matrix374;27473748]its hurting me by not letting me have the satisfaction of playing games online. What does this have to do with Piracy?I have to borrow my mom's credit card,get her permission and then pay her. And because of that we have a small gaming community and its harder to easily get things[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I didn't really understand what you meant by that.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473703]AND I'M NOT SAYING STEALING IS OK. Holy shit.[/QUOTE] To bring up an analogy. This whole argument reminds me of how bakeries throw out their day-old pastries. Most bakeries will actually take the "still-good" items and throw them out to be replaced by fresh ones. Despite the fact that they've been thrown out, the bakery will still consider it stealing if soembody takes them. it's an interesting dilemma that relates a lot to the piracy/digital rights argument. The thrown-out pastries represent the fuzzy "ownership" of the said data once its out on the internet. It really comes down to a matter of principle, as since the donuts have already been thrown out, technically nobody owns them, yet the bakery feels like they are somehow losing potential sales if the thrown out pastries are taken and eaten. Just as Data is [U]not[/U] physical property ergo standard property ownership does not apply to it, yet companies will still feel like they've been robbed of "potential sales" even though the same people that acquired the data copies would not have bought the product in the first place. I know pastries and data seem very different, but the analogy is asymmetrically solid.

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;27473832]To bring up an analogy. This whole argument reminds me of how bakeries throw out their day-old pastries. Most bakeries will actually take the "still-good" items and throw them out to be replaced by fresh ones. Despite the fact that they've been thrown out, the bakery will still consider it stealing if soembody takes them. it's an interesting dilemma that relates a lot to the piracy/digital rights argument. The thrown-out pastries represent the fuzzy "ownership" of the said data once its out on the internet. It really comes down to a matter of principle, as since the donuts have already been thrown out, technically nobody owns them, yet the bakery feels like they are somehow losing potential sales if the thrown out pastries are taken and eaten. Just as Data is [U]not[/U] physical property ergo standard property ownership does not apply to it, yet companies will still feel like they've been robbed of "potential sales" even though the same people that acquired the data copies would not have bought the product in the first place. I know pastries and data seem very different, but the analogy is asymmetrically solid.[/QUOTE] Great analogy. Actually. Great.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472939]Blacklist the sites on all ISPs, then their puny dynamics won't save them. If the US government forced every ISP in the country to blacklist ThePirateBay, that'd stop a good chunk of the piraters. Then just do the same with every other pirating website. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] I never called them idiots, I called them basement-dwelling, acne-scarred couch potatoes.[/QUOTE] Ever file sharing site could be used for pirating. why dont you get that? they would have to stop every file, image and video sharing site ever made if they really wanted to stop pirating.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27473773]No. I'm done with you. I'm done with your bullshit. I remember our arguments about drug legalization and how fucking dense you were there when it comes to quantifiable shit. You did the same thing here, and you also relied on incredible ignorance and naivity of the topic to make your points which were as hollow as they get. You're literally the same here. So fuck you, i'm done. [editline]16th January 2011[/editline] I'm sorry I didn't really understand what you meant by that.[/QUOTE] [b]Need Fun>Online Games Store Sells>Pirated Games>No Online>Small Community To get Games>Steam>Credit Card>Dont have>Borrow>Need Permission[/b]

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;27473874]Ever file sharing site could be used for pirating. why dont you get that? they would have to stop every file, image and video sharing site ever made if they really wanted to stop pirating.[/QUOTE] Before you know it, he's going to propose these special, televised monitors that would be placed in the streets and in every household so that the televised screens would be able to detect any form of crime being committed by citizens and would alert the proper authorities to a location and subdue the criminals before more harm could be done. Hell, I'm sure that these cameras on these televised screens could be good enough to [i]analyze[/i] the face of a certain citizen to detect their motives and maybe even read their thoughts about future [i]crimes[/i] they may commit. I'd call it...a [i]telescreen[/i]. Oh wait a minute.

[QUOTE=Matrix374;27473883][b]Need Fun>Online Games Store Sells>Pirated Games>No Online>Small Community To get Games>Steam>Credit Card>Dont have>Borrow>Need Permission[/b][/QUOTE] There's a store that sells pirated games? that's a totally different form of illegal. Sorry again if i'm not getting it right, but being underage, that sucks, but it'll end some day, the credit card thing anyways.