The end of free internet: US Senate Committee Approves Internet “Blacklist” Bill - Polidicks

When nanobot technology comes out we will be arguing if its alright to pirate cars. The only difference is that everyone would be doing it. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27479913]Backing up files = OK Copying an entire game, like Call of Duty or something, then sending it to a friend for them to have = Not OK[/QUOTE] Well wouldnt me playing mass effect and letting my friend play mass effect be just as bad because instead of buying the game he used my copy.

[QUOTE=AlienCreature;27481495]In the case of piracy, none of these meanings apply. Pirates are not depriving anyone from their possessions. They are merely sharing. By your definition of theft, two children sharing a toy is piracy and they should be punished. I refuse to believe you are so arrogant to believe that pirates would buy the software/music/movies if they couldn't pirate it. The companies are losing [b]potential[/b] profit. Not profit.[/QUOTE] Ok, look, I don't know how simple I can make this. It. Does. Not. Matter. If. You. Wanted. To. Buy. It. Or. Not. You. Are. Obtaining. Something. Without. Paying. For. It. Without. The. Owner's. Permission. You. Are. Unlawfully. Obtaining. It. You. Are. Breaking. The. Law. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27481774]Should tape sharers from the 80's be arrested? They just copied tapes and handed them around because they couldn't get music around quickly back then. Should they have been arrested? Same case. I'm sure you'll say yes. What about someone who backs up a cd on their computer? They copied it, they now have a new file(Corporations are trying to make this illegal btw). They BOUGHT that product with their own money. Now, they've got a copy that is irrefutably theirs. Now, seeing as they bought that thing, and they could choose to(if it were music) blast it for everyone they knew to listen to, how is giving them a copy of that file any different? I think you want to arrest everyone who goes to a house party and listens to the songs that they blare over their shitty speakers. Really, it's just a form of sharing. Piracy isn't stealing. Piracy isn't "ok", but piracy is not stealing.[/QUOTE] True, but listen, this is the difference. Sharing a song or playing it at a party is perfectly fine, but when you download 500 dollars worth of games from pirate sites for free, or when you copy an entire game and send it to a friend to have, that's a criminal act.

Oh look, another "the passing of x bill which will happen ANY SECOND NOW will be the end of the internet forever" news article.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27483794]Oh look, another "the passing of x bill which will happen ANY SECOND NOW will be the end of the internet forever" news article.[/QUOTE] As soon as the phrase 'stopping piracy' was mentioned, everyone was like 'THE INTERNET IS NOW FASCISTICALLY CONTROLLED, FREEDOM'S OVER, END OF THE WORLD.'

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27484088]As soon as the phrase 'stopping piracy' was mentioned, everyone was like 'THE INTERNET IS NOW FASCISTICALLY CONTROLLED, FREEDOM'S OVER, END OF THE WORLD.'[/QUOTE] The problem here is that it won't stop at copyright infringement. Next up is some corporation figuring out that they don't like Youtube and Dropbox, so they get their lawyers to write up a nice little argument and poof, it applies to those sites as well. And what about when the law is changed and includes even more sites? What about Wikileaks? I'm sure most politicians in the US would like Wikileaks permanently blocked in the US. And when it's regarding the copyright infringement / stealing argument, then by definition copyright infringement wouldn't be stealing, but it wouldn't necessarily be legal or "OK" either. What you need to remember though is that one pirated copy != one loss, which you've stated numerous times. A vast majority of copyright infringement also is done by minors without personal income or in poor countries, thus no money would actually be spent on the actual goods itself. Also a little quote: [quote]In law copyright infringement does not refer to actual theft, but an instance where a person exercises one of the exclusive rights of the copyright holder without authorization.[/quote]

[QUOTE=LarparNar;27484453]The problem here is that it won't stop at copyright infringement. Next up is some corporation figuring out that they don't like Youtube and Dropbox, so they get their lawyers to write up a nice little argument and poof, it applies to those sites as well. And what about when the law is changed and includes even more sites? What about Wikileaks? I'm sure most politicians in the US would like Wikileaks permanently blocked in the US. And when it's regarding the copyright infringement / stealing argument, then by definition copyright infringement wouldn't be stealing, but it wouldn't necessarily be legal or "OK" either. What you need to remember though is that one pirated copy != one loss, which you've stated numerous times. A vast majority of copyright infringement also is done by minors without personal income or in poor countries, thus no money would actually be spent on the actual goods itself. Also a little quote:[/QUOTE] Excellent use of Wikileaks. You using a site I love has made me consider this. I mean, I only want this legislature to be passed if it'll stop pirating and nothing more. But knowing how backwards-arsed corrupt the US government is, it probably won't. And after Wikileaks, what else will be considered blacklistable? Criticism of government, Filefront, Dropbox? It could be a horrible thing. Thank God I live in the UK now, but I still don't want Americans subjected to that sort of restriction. Maybe this being passed wouldn't be a good thing.

[QUOTE=BANNED USER;27481171]He also made bootleg liquor out of water, motherfucker needs to be stopped.[/QUOTE] Real reason for the crucifixtion [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27484552]Excellent use of Wikileaks. You using a site I love has made me consider this. I mean, I only want this legislature to be passed if it'll stop pirating and nothing more. But knowing how backwards-arsed corrupt the US government is, it probably won't. And after Wikileaks, what else will be considered blacklistable? Criticism of government, Filefront, Dropbox? It could be a horrible thing. Thank God I live in the UK now, but I still don't want Americans subjected to that sort of restriction. Maybe this being passed wouldn't be a good thing.[/QUOTE] Maybe? Of course it wouldn't. Anyways, [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1000060-Fake-Facepunch-Duplicate]you're a troll.[/url] You're trolling right now. Stop.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27472281]You want a game. It costs 50 bucks at the store. You go to Pirate Bay. You download the game for free. You cost the game company 50 bucks. You stole. This isn't just about music. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] 'Restricts my freedom'? You must be an extremely hardcore anarchist or something if you think blacklisting piracy websites (PirateBay, etc) is 'a restriction of freedom'.[/QUOTE] You did not cost the game company $50. They simply just did not earn $50. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE PIRATED A GAME DOES NOT MEAN THEY [b]LOSE[/b] MONEY FROM IT.

[QUOTE=Pasalaqcua;27467550]That's a argument a total fuck wad would think of. Can you live life without earning any money? [b]NO.[/b] Here, I'm going to make a post to describe it to you people. Okay, so here you have an official CD from a record label: [img_thumb]http://www.or-olam.org/images/Beatles_CD.jpg[/img_thumb] THIS IS A PHYSICAL COPY OF THE CD. Now. try to play this one PHYSICAL CD on two CD players at the same time. You can't. You can always burn a copy of the CD, but that would not be an official copy, so that means that's one sale the record company has lost. "Copying" is really no different from stealing when it comes to the INTERNET.[/QUOTE] Apparently you love making an ass of yourself on the INTERNET. [b]INTERNET.[/b] [b]INTERNET![/b]

Great, now I've just lost all faith in the US government.

It was nice having one blip of freedom in a milenia of slavery

Looks like well need 4chan's help to get rid of this.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27473524]You know what the biggest, best solution to all of this is though? The one thing that makes piracy so unimaginable stupid? [b]You can just pay for the damn thing in the first place.[/b][/QUOTE] Let's say there's an out-of-print demo from an obscure artist. It was limited to 100 copies. The only place I've found it listed is on ebay, and it costs $150. Would it be wrong of me to pirate this? Buying it on ebay would not support the artist any more than simply downloading it. I await your ruling on this completely hypothetical situation Gmod_Fan77

[QUOTE=Samiam22;27485766]You did not cost the game company $50. They simply just did not earn $50. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE PIRATED A GAME DOES NOT MEAN THEY [B]LOSE[/B] MONEY FROM IT.[/QUOTE] You should have to pay for things to get them. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;27486013]Let's say there's an out-of-print demo from an obscure artist. The only place I've found it listed is on ebay, and it costs $150. Would it be wrong of me to pirate this? Buying it on ebay would not support the artist any more than simply downloading it. I await your ruling on this completely hypothetical situation Gmod_Fan77[/QUOTE] You want the songs? Pay for them or watch them on Youtube.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27481774]Should tape sharers from the 80's be arrested? They just copied tapes and handed them around because they couldn't get music around quickly back then. Should they have been arrested? Same case. I'm sure you'll say yes. What about someone who backs up a cd on their computer? They copied it, they now have a new file(Corporations are trying to make this illegal btw). They BOUGHT that product with their own money. Now, they've got a copy that is irrefutably theirs. Now, seeing as they bought that thing, and they could choose to(if it were music) blast it for everyone they knew to listen to, how is giving them a copy of that file any different? I think you want to arrest everyone who goes to a house party and listens to the songs that they blare over their shitty speakers. Really, it's just a form of sharing. Piracy isn't stealing. Piracy isn't "ok", but piracy is not stealing.[/QUOTE] You are correct. I was mistaken in labeling piracy as stealing. I looked further into it and found a Supreme Court case "Dowling v. United States (1985)", that ruled that goods obtained legally and distributed do not constitute theft. I will apologize for my mistake. However, I am curious as to what sort of legislation could be made to actually help consumers while at the same time hurt pirates. I like your analogies to the tape sharers, but that was generally a much smaller operation than mass pirating on peer-to-peer networks. I don't want limiting legislation, but the same time I want something to be done when only 1 out of 5 people actually purchase an excellent game, like World of Goo.

[QUOTE=supersnail11;27484791]Anyways, [url=http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1000060-Fake-Facepunch-Duplicate]you're a troll.[/url] You're trolling right now. Stop.[/QUOTE] You're using an honest thread I made a year ago as evidence that I'm a troll?

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27486016]You want the songs? Pay for them or watch them on Youtube.[/QUOTE] Neither statement answers my question. Buying it second-hand on ebay does not support the artist any more than pirating it in this case. Is it still wrong to pirate it? And we'll assume it isn't posted on Youtube either. (Which technically IS piracy but I will call you out on all of your hypocrisy at once as soon as I win this)

If I would've pirated something, then it would mean I probably wouldn't have bought it anyways.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;27486064]Neither statement answers my question. Buying it second-hand on ebay does not support the artist any more than pirating it in this case. Is it still wrong to pirate it? And we'll assume it isn't posted on Youtube either. (Which technically IS piracy but I will call you out on all of your hypocrisy at once as soon as I win this)[/QUOTE] If it's worth 150 dollars in stores, buy it and don't pirate it. Now, if it's entirely in stores and you only find it on Ebay or something, no person will make profit off of it anyway, then, in which case, I suppose downloading it is ok, since it's not a retail item any more and no profit is possible. This is the only instance when piracy is sensible: when you can't find it anywhere near you except on Ebay or things like it, where users are gaining profit, not the companies.

If I ever want a song, all I have to do is go to youtube, save the video and extract the sound file to an MP3. If that's illegal, then they'd have to charge people for watching videos too.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27486136]If it's worth 150 dollars in stores, buy it and don't pirate it. Now, if it's entirely in stores and you only find it on Ebay or something, no person will make profit off of it anyway, then, in which case, I suppose downloading it is ok, since it's not a retail item any more and no profit is possible. This is the only instance when piracy is sensible: when you can't find it anywhere near you except on Ebay or things like it, where users are gaining profit, not the companies.[/QUOTE] It's as if you didn't read my post at all, fucking imagine that. This album is out of print. It has been for many years. NO STORES HAVE IT. The only place I can purchase it is on ebay second-hand, for $150. At least you answered my question at the end of your post, but you still displayed a stellar lack of reading comprehension. Scenario 2: A slightly-less-obscure artist has an album that I want. However, the only way to buy this album is from the distro that the band runs out of their garage in Belarus. They don't ship to Canada. Is it wrong of me to pirate this album? I could, of course, find someone in Belarus to ship the album to me or go there myself, but that is expensive and time-consuming. To cut to the chase, where do you draw the line between illegal piracy and acceptable piracy?

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27486016]You want the songs? Pay for them or watch them on Youtube.[/QUOTE] Whats the difference between watching them on youtube and pirating them? either wya they dont make money.

[QUOTE=zombojoe;27486174]If I ever want a song, all I have to do is go to youtube, save the video and extract the sound file to an MP3. If that's illegal[/QUOTE] Just as illegal as torrenting the song, bub.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;27486268]Scenario 2: A slightly-less-obscure artist has an album that I want. However, the only way to buy this album is from the distro that the band runs out of their garage in Belarus. They don't ship to Canada. Is it wrong of me to pirate this album? I could, of course, find someone in Belarus to ship the album to me or go there myself, but that is expensive and time-consuming. To cut to the chase, where do you draw the line between illegal piracy and acceptable piracy?[/QUOTE] Different currencies, massive distance, you could pirate it and they'd never even lose a cent. That's ok as well. But if you want a CD that you really love that's at Wal-Mart for 20 bucks, and said Wal-Mart is a 2-minute drive from your house, then it wouldn't be acceptable to pirate it. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=zombojoe;27486174]If I ever want a song, all I have to do is go to youtube, save the video and extract the sound file to an MP3. If that's illegal, then they'd have to charge people for watching videos too.[/QUOTE] I might've done this a few times, to be honest.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27472280]no normal people don't pirate, [/QUOTE] Are you saying I'm not nor- Oh hi Benji.

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27486494]Different currencies, massive distance, you could pirate it and they'd never even lose a cent. That's ok as well. But if you want a CD that you really love that's at Wal-Mart for 20 bucks, and said Wal-Mart is a 2-minute drive from your house, then it wouldn't be acceptable to pirate it.[/QUOTE] I don't understand your logic. Pirating an album from a big-name artist also "costs" them less than a cent considering how much the record label takes. But it's not okay to pirate their stuff because they've achieved notoriety and made it onto a Walmart shelf? I don't get it. What about scalping tickets, what's your opinion on that

Doesn't this break multiple Amendments?

I hate idiots who say pirating is stealing, for the millionth time there is a difference between phyiscally stealing something and making a copy of it. One involves somebody losing money, the other doesn't. And don't give me that "losing a sale" bullshit, you are assuming people are going to do something they haven't done yet. Besides, I may not pirate music but I never pay for it, I just watch that shit on youtube.

This bill made me cry. While listening to [url]http://soundcloud.com/birdfeeder/jurassic-park-theme-1000-slower[/url]

[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;27486494]Different currencies, massive distance, you could pirate it and they'd never even lose a cent. That's ok as well. But if you want a CD that you really love that's at Wal-Mart for 20 bucks, and said Wal-Mart is a 2-minute drive from your house, then it wouldn't be acceptable to pirate it. [editline]17th January 2011[/editline] I might've done this a few times, to be honest.[/QUOTE] Just for the record. [img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=193489&dateline=1295297569[/img] I do hope you've got permission from the rights holders to display that clip in your avatar and compensated the parties involved to a sufficient degree for displaying copyright material to thousands of people every day. You fucking filthy thieving pirate.