all factions in the Syria Civil War already have and use ATGMs for year(s) ... sigh ...
for example Kurds really like German MILAN system and you can find usage of the Russia's Metis/Kornet too
so w/e the T claims is feels just like another smoke & mirrors ...
[QUOTE=Dwarden;50940951]all factions in the Syria Civil War already have and use ATGMs for year(s) ... sigh ...
for example Kurds really like German MILAN system and you can find usage of the Russia's Metis/Kornet too
so w/e the T claims is feels just like another smoke & mirrors ...[/QUOTE]
Again, waaay far from the point. The point is, Turkey has been dealing with a Kurdish insurgency in their eastern regions for upwards of three decades, the end of the Syrian conflict in Kurdish favour would mean the Kurdish factions in Turkey would get their hands on some pretty heavy hardware they didn't have before. Which is why Turkey has their right to be worried.
so I guess the Armenian and Greek slaughters didn't happen, same goes with Kurds ...
if you were on theirs place maybe you rebel too ...
i wonder if you support the politics of 'eradicating' anything what's not the correct religion or ethnic
somewhat i find sad how some call 'insurgency' what for Kurds ethnic is fight to survive ...
it was clearly shown when T was watching IS attacking Kobane and not moving finger
(while help would shift quite some Kurds to hate T less)
(oh wait they let more IS to cross border)
Yo someone keep them maps updated, they cool as fuck. Turkey kicking some ass or what
God help the kurds.
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;50941132]God help the kurds.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces[/url]
not just Kurds but anyone in the SDF ;(
Well this was a curb stomp battle if I've ever seen one. ISIS lost some 150 square kilometers over a single day in this offensive. Of course, it's not all that much by modern battlefield standards, but considering how practically everyone except the Turkish troops have been exhausted by five years of constant fighting, this is a considerable shift of events in Syria.
Now the big question is: How much can the Turks themselves push through ISIS and SDF lines? They'll definitely push up until they reach that small river wetland, but I have doubts that they're going straight for Manbij, Al-Bab, and Tishrin Dam.
The Turks took England, they will take Syria too and eliminate Isis. Show Turkey some love, the moves they made this year tops Russia taking Crimea I must say
[QUOTE=Dwarden;50941103]so I guess the Armenian and Greek slaughters didn't happen, same goes with Kurds ...
if you were on theirs place maybe you rebel too ...
i wonder if you support the politics of 'eradicating' anything what's not the correct religion or ethnic
somewhat i find sad how some call 'insurgency' what for Kurds ethnic is fight to survive ...
it was clearly shown when T was watching IS attacking Kobane and not moving finger
(while help would shift quite some Kurds to hate T less)
(oh wait they let more IS to cross border)[/QUOTE]
Jesus Christ, how far can you miss my point? That Turkey has reason to be concerned doesn't mean that Turkey is right. Nazi Germany would have right to be concernced if the Jews suddenly had ATGMs. I never said a single word in support of Turkey, just said that they had plenty of reason to oppose the Kurdish success in Syria and Iraq because it directly opposes their interest. Understanding does not equal support, kid. As I said in my first post that somehow got you off on a tangent on ATGM models and Armenian genocide:
[QUOTE=Riller;50938774][B]Still, fuck them[/B]. Turkey has gone down the shitter real quick over the last five years, and them bombing the west's boots-on-the-ground only to put in their own Turkmen fighters by the busload right behind their tanks is a complete bullshit move only working to destabilize the region even more.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Royalpain;50941211]The Turks took England, they will take Syria too and eliminate Isis. Show Turkey some love, the moves they made this year tops Russia taking Crimea I must say[/QUOTE]
I don't feel like showing love to an authoritarian genocide denying regime hellbent on stomping a ethnic group's call for sovereignty to the dirt.
wonder how it feels for Kurdz to be stomped on by USA bombs now...
[QUOTE=karimatrix;50941256]wonder how it feels for Kurdz to be stomped on by USA bombs now...[/QUOTE]
Fuckin' sad that the coalition is busier sucking up to the most useless, reckless ally in all of NATO than taking care of their most effective fighting force in the war.
[QUOTE=Riller;50941296]Fuckin' sad that the coalition is busier sucking up to the most useless, reckless ally in all of NATO than taking care of their most effective fighting force in the war.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, Turkey is deffo the most effective fighting force in this war now. Shred the Kurds to pieces
[QUOTE=Royalpain;50941319]Hmmm, Turkey is deffo the most effective fighting force in this war now. Shred the Kurds to pieces[/QUOTE]
They are hardly involved so far. They had Kurds along their borders and got real miffed about that, so they went down and told them to leave so they could insert their own Turkmen fighters who have proven themselves repeatedly useless during the duration of this conflict. The actual Turkish military is probably going home tomorrow. They did what they came for and aren't interested in fighting more than what it'll take to get NATO's allies off their border.
And just to make clear for you, Turkmen fighters aren't Turkish soldiers. They're an ethnic militia just like the Kurds, except instead of being known for kicking ISIS out of Iraq and large parts of Syria, their main call to fame was being bombed once which got Erdogan all mad and thereby causing the Russian jet shootdown a while back. Other than that, they're your run-of-the-mill AK-wiedling pickup-riders.
SDF is facing multiple dilemas ...
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqpYtAWWAAAL8sr.jpg:large[/IMG]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqpkAouXEAA7ecT.jpg:large[/IMG]
you know what's irony
those fighting on SDF side are from the region (were expelled by IS)
those fighting them on T side are theirs former allies from Kobane fighting
the insanity of civil war where friends become foes within days or weeks
IS already celebrating that YPG/SDF fighting FSA/T ...
FSA rebels had expelled SDF from [URL="https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/768539240758185984"]Amarneh[/URL] village, as well captured [URL="https://twitter.com/archicivilians/status/768550884150243328"]Ayn al-Bayda[/URL] of them.
SDF should have been forced to retreat off Mezeleh and Yussif Bayk, otherwise they'll be encircled.
SDF attempt to go for Al-Bab would be a suicide without US airstrikes and YPG.
Rojava could have been friendly to the west but we just had to go and fuck that up, didn't we? But I don't expect anything less with our track record of making friendly militias/states in the Middle East turn against us.
US would have NOT sacrifice their very important ally Turkey for a independent Kurdish state that nobody in region would have recognized.
Geopolitics people. YPG is very important to US fight against ISIS, but let's be real. YPG's only cares about Kurds and to form Kurdish autonomy or independent state. Attacking ISIS in Aleppo was purely a move to connect with Afrin YPG, despite the fact that region is overwhelmingly Syrian Arab. This is a blatant self-interest expansion that was quite clearly pissing off Turkey, one of the most important NATO members due to having 2nd biggest army and being located in very strategically important location.
This move was done to appease Turkey, while YPG/SDF still have free reign to go south towards Raqqa oil fields and towards ISIS capital city Raqqa. YPG/SDF are not tossed away, but forced to end their Rojava project or suffer Turkish wrath.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;50941599]Rojava could have been friendly to the west but we just had to go and fuck that up, didn't we? But I don't expect anything less with our track record of making friendly militias/states in the Middle East turn against us.[/QUOTE]
it was to appease big baby erdogan because he was mad that the US didn't put down the coup for him and if we didn't back him on this he would have thrown a tantrum
[editline]24th August 2016[/editline]
it really sucks because all our major middle east allies love destabilizing their neighbors for their own gain but we need them as "allies" so we can fight the terrorists they create
"Going after ISIS" I love how they don't even say the truth, ISIS is their dogs, the truth is they are going after the Kurds and trying to mess up Syria even more. They have no right coming into Syrian territory. I hope Kurds send them straight to hell.
[QUOTE=Royalpain;50941319]Hmmm, Turkey is deffo the most effective fighting force in this war now. Shred the Kurds to pieces[/QUOTE]
I want some of that kool-aid you are drinking.
I like how tame is reaction to the fact that US essentially exchanged kurds for turks, betraying their cause and hopes for authonomity even thought just a couple months ago fp was chanting for their success.
Really shows that despite all your efforts to show Russia as bigger threat you easily accept violations when they are in your interest.
My goverment is shit, but your is no more decent.
Fuck USA.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;50944158]I want some of that kool-aid you are drinking.[/QUOTE]
Turkish Armed Forces are the modern NATO army. Just Syrian border there's 100k Turkish servicemen, over 5000 armoured vehicles( tanks, APC's, Self-propelled artillery...), a few dozens of jets capable of CAS and etc. While Turkey will only send fraction of there, they have a ton of it in reserves in need for replacement or even escalation.
For Turkish backed FSA rebels, for now there's 5000 of fighters with at least basic NATO standard training in Jarabulus area with Western arms and equipment.
YPG has poorly trained and equipped militias, only a handful of tanks, no artillery to speak of and no longer have US air support they relied on west of Euphrates river.
YPG stands no chance against these odds.
It's a shame how quickly America is willing to throw friendly groups under the bus in favour of our own interests. We cannot be trusted to help you fight for freedom, we only help if it's convenient to ourselves and we'll ditch you as soon as it becomes more convenient to do so.
Honestly the kurds need their own country, and Northern Iraq seems like the best bet. The strip of the syrian frontier occupied by majority kurds couldn't even function as a country, anyways. If the Kurds got their own country, I imagine most Kurds from elsewhere would just flee across the border into their own country, ending most of the rebellions there anyways. Kind of like a Kurdish Israel. Probably with the same response from its neighbors
It's obvious that the coalition couldn't keep offering air support for the Kurds in an area where the Turks are operating, but the 'right' choice seems to me to be just to cut it in that area. No NATO air support. If the Turks wanna be shits and work against everything the coalition has tried to build, they can do it with their own planes and bombs, or see if Putin is in on it (he probably is). The U.S. instantly going "Okay we'll just bomb the troops our military advisors are actively training and our supplies are being directly handed over to" is an insane display of spinelessness.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50944529]It's a shame how quickly America is willing to throw friendly groups under the bus in favour of our own interests. We cannot be trusted to help you fight for freedom, we only help if it's convenient to ourselves and we'll ditch you as soon as it becomes more convenient to do so.[/QUOTE]
YPG is NOT thrown under the bus. US wanted for them to focus south towards Raqqa oil fields and ISIS capital Raqqa. YPG refused that and went west towards Manjib to eventually reconnect with Efrin YPG. This was clearly pissing off Turkey as they view YPG to be same as PKK, and PKK is doing terrorist attacks for much longer then ISIS in Turkey.
This was a necessary move to force YPG to go back east and focus southwards towards oil fields and Raqqa, while appeasing Turkey and not risking getting kicked out of Ilirik airbase. without that airbase, US would have no means to aid YPG at all.
I'm fully aware that our politics are more important than their freedom. I'm just saying anyone that doesn't have something substantial to offer us should be very weary about our support. Evidently, it is very flimsy and half-hearted.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50944590]I'm fully aware that our politics are more important than their freedom. I'm just saying anyone that doesn't have something substantial to offer us should be very weary about our support. Evidently, it is very flimsy and half-hearted.[/QUOTE]
YPG wouldn't really exist without US support though. Remember Kobane? Without US air support, ISIL would have captured that city and kill/execute thousand of YPG fighters. After that, that large ISIS army( which was destroyed by US airstrikes), would have went for Cizire YPG that were only real fighting force of YPG, yet were barely holding on their own in area against ISIS. That army would have been enough to crush Cizire YPG.
So YPG should completely grateful for US. Not only they still exist, but are more powerful then ever. But they shouldn't have expected that support was unconditional love. As well US can't support them unless they are able to make peace with Turkey and FSA rebels. YPG is also an enemy to Assad's regime( thanks to whole Hafez al-Assad committing massacre over Kurds in 1980's and most of Kurds not able to gain Syrian citizenship), so how will they be good for stability in region?
It's very true YPG has very good intentions, but their unwillingness to compromise with non-SDF entities is not good in either short nor long term.
So wait. When they say, "East of Euphrates" do they mean the entire front or just a specific area?
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