[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50944818]So wait. When they see, "East of Euphrates" do they mean the entire front or just a specific area?[/QUOTE]
Entire front.
[editline]25th August 2016[/editline]
[URL="https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/768757588183973888"]ISIS began to fortify Al-Bab[/URL], the most strategically important ISIS held city in Aleppo.
Also [URL="https://twitter.com/GaulVerc/status/768565984433098752"]ISIS made[/URL], rather funny, map of Jarabulus situation:
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqp-g6eUMAE5Mi7.jpg[/img_thumb]
Map is nonsensesical and outdated, but I couldn't help myself but not to show it.
So Turkey is sincerely asking the Kurds to effectively abandon every gain they fought for in the last like... Five months? That's pretty ballsy.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50944947]So Turkey is sincerely asking the Kurds to effectively abandon every gain they fought for in the last like... Five months? That's pretty ballsy.[/QUOTE]
Not abandon their gains, non-YPG SDF groups are allowed to stay and keep what they captured around Manjib area.
But since SDF went to attack FSA and Turkish forces near Jarabulus, FSA rebels and Turkey will most likely change their stance and even go after Manjib too.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50944953]Not abandon their gains, non-YPG SDF groups are allowed to stay and keep what they captured around Manjib area.
But since SDF went to attack FSA and Turkish forces near Jarabulus, FSA rebels and Turkey will most likely change their stance and even go after Manjib too.[/QUOTE]
The SDF and FSA are semi-allies depending on when, who and where. The problem is that the FSA troops that Turkey is dragging in are part of the guys SDF aren't a fan of. And that those guys will probably get their shit kicked in the moment Turkish tanks withdraw again.
[QUOTE=Royalpain;50941319]Hmmm, Turkey is deffo the most effective fighting force in this war now. Shred the Kurds to pieces[/QUOTE]
Depends on whether numbers and better equipment means more effective. I mean would 10 great fighters with aks be better than 100 dumbasses with modern equipment. Look at the american revolutionaries.
[QUOTE=Megadave;50945348]Depends on whether numbers and better equipment means more effective. I mean would 10 great fighters with aks be better than 100 dumbasses with modern equipment. [B]Look at the american revolutionaries[/B].[/QUOTE]
Eeeeh, British professional army was superior to American militias.
America actually truly won at the sea as most of British American colonial navy defected to US rebels and were able to defeat British navy at sea, which had severely reduced Britain to supply and reinforce their armies in America as well made it impossible to enforce trade embargo on rebellious colony.
President Washington fought and won the war of attrition, not by use of better troops nor tactics.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50945725]Eeeeh, British professional army was superior to American militias.
America actually truly won at the sea as most of British American colonial navy defected to US rebels and were able to defeat British navy at sea, which had severely reduced Britain to supply and reinforce their armies in America as well made it impossible to enforce trade embargo on rebellious colony.
President Washington fought and won the war of attrition, not by use of better troops nor tactics.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure the French beat the Brits at sea during the revolution, we had a hanfull of small ships. Those ships raided the shit out of British shipping though.
seems quite some of those 2-5 thousand FSA fighters alongside Turkey forces were recently fighting on side of Al-Nusra and similar 'radical' groups ...
also nobody is asking how come that Turkey allowed IS 'free witdrawal' from whole area
(e.g. IS withdrew 2 days before alleged shelling from IS into Turkey etc.)
at least SDF/YPG etc. would not allow them retreat w/o some fire ...
the sources are all over the internet , trust or distrust them as you wish ...
also some other sources claim that
the T/FSA failed to capture "Ayn al-Bayda" and it's still defended by SDF
in other news other SDF forces are capturing more villages to southwest and south to confine the T/FSA into specific narrow pass
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqt6m5ZWAAE6_Nu.jpg:large[/IMG]
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50944481]Turkish Armed Forces are the modern NATO army. Just Syrian border there's 100k Turkish servicemen, over 5000 armoured vehicles( tanks, APC's, Self-propelled artillery...), a few dozens of jets capable of CAS and etc. While Turkey will only send fraction of there, they have a ton of it in reserves in need for replacement or even escalation.
For Turkish backed FSA rebels, for now there's 5000 of fighters with at least basic NATO standard training in Jarabulus area with Western arms and equipment.
YPG has poorly trained and equipped militias, only a handful of tanks, no artillery to speak of and no longer have US air support they relied on west of Euphrates river.
YPG stands no chance against these odds.[/QUOTE]
i think he was referring to Royalpain riding turkey's dick hard and wanting them to shred the kurds to pieces while capturing syria and not that he thinks that ypg/sdf has a chance against them
Turkey re-init heavy attack at Amarnah with airstrikes, tanks and arty shelling
note the irony here,
the SDF members defending the area around Amarnah and Ayn al-Bayda are actually clans/families 'domestic' to those villages and cities
(YPG/Kurd members of SDF withdrew in last 48h to continue combat in distant South areas)
so the question is, why T/FSA is trying conquer someone else land ;)
oh btw. IS is operating in East and South East like nothing happened
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CquSoTsWYAQd61d.jpg:large[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Dwarden;50946377]Turkey re-init heavy attack at Amarnah with airstrikes, tanks and arty shelling
note the irony here,
the SDF members defending the area around Amarnah and Ayn al-Bayda are actually clans/families 'domestic' to those villages and cities
(YPG/Kurd members of SDF withdrew in last 48h to continue combat in distant South areas)
so the question is, why T/FSA is trying conquer someone else land ;)
oh btw. IS is operating in East and South East like nothing happened
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CquSoTsWYAQd61d.jpg:large[/IMG][/QUOTE]
You pose these questions like it isn't ridiculously obvious that Turkey wants to avoid Kurds ending up in that area, and they don't care if it's their "FSA" Turkmen rebels or ISIS holding that stretch of land, as long as it isn't the Kurds.
I understand why the US would support Turkey over the Kurds but what's to stop Turkey from doing what Saddam did and starting an ethnic cleansing program once they overpower the kurds?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50947056]Nothing. Turkey has the power and the means.
So thank god Erdogan isnt Saddam I guess?[/QUOTE]
While I do believe that Erdoğan is an asshole, he's not even remotely close to what Saddam was. Some of his cabinet and the majority of his supporters are Kurdish. As I stated here on FP before that most of my friends have Kurdish and/or Armenian background and the majority of them are AKP or Hüda-Par supporters. (There also a few of CHP supporters such as myself)
Do the Kurds deserve autonomy? IMO they do. But that ain't gonna happen with PKK/YPG.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50946843]I understand why the US would support Turkey over the Kurds but what's to stop Turkey from doing what Saddam did and starting an ethnic cleansing program once they overpower the kurds?[/QUOTE]
They haven't done it for the last several hundred years, including their brief genocidal period in the 1900's. Don't think they'd want to wipe up towards 20ish percent of their population now when shit like that is so much more heavily watched, when they're doing just fine suppressing them.
Kurds should have autonomy. Half the reason for all these problems is that the colonial powers were stupid and drew up countries arbitrarily instead of based on local groups. The result is a region lacking in national identity and always trying to get one up on their rivals.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;50947520]Kurds should have autonomy. Half the reason for all these problems is that the colonial powers were stupid and drew up countries arbitrarily instead of based on local groups. The result is a region lacking in national identity and always trying to get one up on their rivals.[/QUOTE]
True.
Both Turkey and Kurdistan would be better off if the winning side (colonial powers in this case) had seperated Kurdistan from Turkey and/or Arab lands back then.
But they didn't give a flying fuck about the Wilson Principles sadly.
Finally there's a pretty much dedicated Syria thread on facepunch too
[QUOTE=Riller;50946819]You pose these questions like it isn't ridiculously obvious that Turkey wants to avoid Kurds ending up in that area, and they don't care if it's their "FSA" Turkmen rebels or ISIS holding that stretch of land, as long as it isn't the Kurds.[/QUOTE]
Kurds already withdrew in last 48h leaving it to theirs Arab allies in SDF and locals ...
you need to remember locals had several majors battles vs IS in 2012-14 in the area
afterward they were pushed out by for-IS groups and now they finally can get home
yet new aggressor replaced IS ...
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqvA6lEWAAQVmyn.jpg:large[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Turing;50947679]Finally there's a pretty much dedicated Syria thread on facepunch too[/QUOTE]
Just problem now it is currently being spammed by pro-YPG propaganda.
I couldn't counter today as nobody who's at least trying to objective has yet to update their maps.
No side have yet to even show pictures nor video footage about captured territory since Jarabulus was captured. So take all this claims with a grain of salt.
Lol, Turkey was blaming US for the coup, and suddenly they are best friends again
in northern syria
their ambitions are unknown
turkish tanks roll in
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50950459]in northern syria
their ambitions are unknown
turkish tanks roll in[/QUOTE]
Have you been drinking lately.
Turkish Armed Forces official statement:
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqvp6anWEAAX2kf.jpg:large[/img_thumb]
Translation( [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/4zlwqb/official_announcement_by_tsk_turkish_armed_forces/d6xaqx2"]credit to translation[/URL]):
[quote]To quell the threat caused mainly by the terrorist organisation ISIS on our borders, and to support the international coalition forces, TSK is continuing the Euphrates Shield operation which started on August 24th.
The operation is in line with international laws and the United Nations 51st article regarding the right of self defence against ISIS.
We have taken every measure possible and are doing our utter best to prevent civilian casualties and suffering.[/quote]
Looks like they were resting and [URL="https://twitter.com/AFP/status/769091131443412992"]deploying more forces[/URL] in Syria and now offensive will continue today.
[URL="https://twitter.com/NovostiDamask/status/769094221940785152"]Syrian refugees in Turkey are also returning to their homes to Jarabulus[/URL].
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50950486]Have you been drinking lately.[/QUOTE]
you are right I guess
intentions are pretty clear
invasion confirmed
Not drinking just thought political commentary in haiku form would be #phresh
[editline]26th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50950600]Turkish Armed Forces official statement:
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqvp6anWEAAX2kf.jpg:large[/img_thumb]
Translation( [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/4zlwqb/official_announcement_by_tsk_turkish_armed_forces/d6xaqx2"]credit to translation[/URL]):
Looks like they were resting and [URL="https://twitter.com/AFP/status/769091131443412992"]deploying more forces[/URL] in Syria and now offensive will continue today.
[URL="https://twitter.com/NovostiDamask/status/769094221940785152"]Syrian refugees in Turkey are also returning to their homes to Jarabulus[/URL].[/QUOTE]
What is their end game? Establish a stable regime or carve land away
Is there any reason for them to carve land away? I thought the area they're currently invading had an Arabic majority, who aren't historically known for being well reviving to Turkish overlords. Establishing a friendly regime seems like it would be easier and more beneficial in the long run, in addition they get to play themselves as a vital partner in the fight against ISIS to the west which is probably something they need right now after all the shit after the coup attempt.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50950623]
What is their end game? Establish a stable regime or carve land away[/QUOTE]
1. Secure the border against ISIS. Turkey had suffered more ISIS attacks and casualties then European nations.
2. Deny YPG Kurds to fully unite. Turkey sees YPG as a extension of PKK. PKK insurgency is a huge issue in Turkey for decades and they do not shy was from doing suicide bomb attacks even though they're atheist communists.
3. Give safe heaven for FSA rebels. Rebels have troubles to form any civilian form of government due to constant terror bombing from Assad's regime and Russia. Neither of those two are willing to start a war with Turkey even without NATO, so Turkey forming a safe zone for FSA rebels would be great for them in a long run.
4. Reduction of refugees. Turkey has close to 2 million Syrian refugees last year. Making safe heaven in North Aleppo will relief them off significantly, as big portion of Syrian refugees do come from Aleppo region. So this is good for Turkey, refugees and European nations.
I want to remind people Turkey has no chemical weapons and had signed an accord that bans usage of chemical weapons. As well Turkey has a strong modern NATO army, no point to commit to desperate measures of chemical warfare. And, this will shock some of you people, Turkey has no desire to ethnically cleanse Kurds nor commit genocide.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50950691]Absolutely no incentives to carve land away. More like preventing a carve is more in lines with Turkish governments interests. They dont want Assad, but they want a united Syria.[/QUOTE]
But a buffer zone
Refugees kept in Syria
Land annexed by force
in meantime in Syria, Turkey+FSA forces fighting SDF (non Kurdish) forces
note: SDF forces are locals from Jarablus and nearby villages, FSA forces are FOREIGN units (not local)
IS is laughing on East watching this
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqx0sKWWYAAA3i6.png:large[/IMG]
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