[QUOTE=Dwarden;50950776]FSA forces are FOREIGN units (not local)
[/QUOTE]
Don't be disingenuous. FSA rebels in this offensive are overwhelmingly natives of Syria. Many of them are locals from Aleppo province.
They are not foreigners.
And like I posted it before, [URL="https://twitter.com/NovostiDamask/status/769094221940785152"]Jarabulus locals[/URL] are returning to their homes from Turkish refugee camps. Fighters themselves may not be from city itself, but they are fighting for locals to return to their homes.
Sucks that the only side worth fighting for in this war is going to be destroyed by a quasi-dictatorship that we are allied to.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50950785]Don't be disingenuous. FSA rebels in this offensive are overwhelmingly natives of Syria. Many of them are locals from Aleppo province.
They are not foreigners.
And like I posted it before, [URL="https://twitter.com/NovostiDamask/status/769094221940785152"]Jarabulus locals[/URL] are returning to their homes from Turkish refugee camps. Fighters themselves may not be from city itself, but they are fighting for locals to return to their homes.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying there are not some FSA locals or civilians who return from Turkey, but natives of Syria is 'vague and totally wrong term, as there are several hundred small factions involved in the Civil War'
the problem I see there is that those groups from Jarabulus area who were fighting as SDF for 2+ years NONSTOP vs IS are now denied to actually free theirs home area
(asking them to 'not return home' is not going to work and will hit wall w/o some form of solid compromise from T/FSA side)
example: FSA fighters from Idlib are in Jarablus and seems to demand free access to Manbij and Al-Bab which was liberated by SDF, why they can't fight around Allepo or Idlib ?
the whole 'Jarablus' operation is joke too as IS withdrawn hence there was no counter force to fight
(yet seems like pro-Turkish agents (this might be biased but some were captured) killed leader of JMC (Jarablus Military Council) which was local SDF commander) , this happened hours before the operation began
[URL="https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/769550137727315968"]FSA rebels and Turkey double the size their territory today at Jarabulus[/URL].
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq39tD1WAAAW3tR.jpg:large[/img_thumb]
4 villages captured from ISIS, 2 villages and 1 hill from SDF rebels.
[URL="https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/769531264122646529"]Closer look of the territorial control[/URL]:
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq3sj8mWIAEcXbe.jpg:large[/img_thumb]
FSA rebels had also captured [URL="https://twitter.com/8381Mhmmad/status/769543388463071232"]3 SDF rebels[/URL].
Jarabulus locals rebuild the [URL="https://twitter.com/archicivilians/status/769527361834455040"]grave of FSA Col. Yusuf Jader killed in 2012[/URL], which ISIS occupiers had destroyed. Also [URL="https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/769537111200497664"]7 ISIS fighters were found in Jarabulus tunnels[/URL], 5 killed and 2 still at large. Possible sleeper agents to commit terrorist attack in future.
[URL="https://twitter.com/VivaRevolt/status/769339700444364800"]ISIS also launched a counter-attack[/URL] at Al-Rai during night, but their [URL="https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/769488999362670592"]attack was repelled[/URL]. After repelling the attack, FSA rebels had then advanced and [URL="http://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2016/27-august-fsa-advanced-from-alrai-town-and-took-control-of"]captured a village east of Al-Rai[/URL].
Turkey began moving [URL="https://twitter.com/FailedCoupTR/status/769533200708296704"]Leopard 2A4 tanks[/URL] from Istanbul to Syrian border.
[QUOTE=Dwarden;50950776]-snip-[/QUOTE]
Whose flag is this?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fltQc0H.png[/img]
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq4WOOIXYAAAXHj.jpg:large[/IMG]
[QUOTE]US-backed SDF fighters captured by Turkey backed Sultan Murad in "anti-IS" op. south of Jarablus[/QUOTE]
[B][URL="https://twitter.com/ntv/status/769595030008893440"]BREAKING NEWS![/URL][/B]
Turkey confirms that SDF had destroyed a Turkish M60A3/1 tank!
1 Turkish tank operator killed, 2 wounded!
[URL="https://twitter.com/BeyondTheLevant/status/769605363486302208"]Destroyed tank in a distance, still burning[/URL].
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50950697]1. Secure the border against ISIS. Turkey had suffered more ISIS attacks and casualties then European nations.
2. Deny YPG Kurds to fully unite. Turkey sees YPG as a extension of PKK. PKK insurgency is a huge issue in Turkey for decades and they do not shy was from doing suicide bomb attacks even though they're [B]atheist communists[/B].
3. Give safe heaven for FSA rebels. Rebels have troubles to form any civilian form of government due to constant terror bombing from Assad's regime and Russia. Neither of those two are willing to start a war with Turkey even without NATO, so Turkey forming a safe zone for FSA rebels would be great for them in a long run.
4. Reduction of refugees. Turkey has close to 2 million Syrian refugees last year. Making safe heaven in North Aleppo will relief them off significantly, as big portion of Syrian refugees do come from Aleppo region. So this is good for Turkey, refugees and European nations.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me? The majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslims. They do subscribe to socialist beliefs, but they are not atheists in the slightest.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50958230]Excuse me? The majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslims. They do subscribe to socialist beliefs, but they are not atheists in the slightest.[/QUOTE]
I was talking about PKK.
Most Kurds are not members nor supporters of PKK.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50950735]I want to remind people Turkey has no chemical weapons and had signed an accord that bans usage of chemical weapons. As well Turkey has a strong modern NATO army, no point to commit to desperate measures of chemical warfare. And, this will shock some of you people, Turkey has no desire to ethnically cleanse Kurds nor commit genocide.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Turkey wants to ethnically cleanse Kurds, I'm pretty sure the majority don't believe that, but I do think that Turkey wants to suppress the Kurds rights to an inclusive democracy, and that means attacking the SDF even if the Kurds aren't amongst the fighting.
[editline]27th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50958236]I was talking about PKK.
Most Kurds are not members nor supporters of PKK.[/QUOTE]
Ah. Still the PKK are essentially Kurdish Nationalist rebels so is it really all that surprising that like many other Nationalist movements throughout the last 200 years, they have no problem with using suicide attacks?
Honestly, if the Euphrates Shield operation is just the current stated objective, I'd be fine, but from what it looks like, it's not. Turkey is probably going to attempt to push further into Syria and try to push out the Kurds from uniting their Cantons, which is very "Why" on it's own.
Another thing worth noting by the way - Supposedly the Turkish military is occupying Kobani and is currently digging trenches and moving in heavy equipment. This clearly has nothing to do with Euphrates Shield and already proves the true goals of the Turks.
There is no proof that Turkey had crossed the border at Kobane.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50958017][B][URL="https://twitter.com/ntv/status/769595030008893440"]BREAKING NEWS![/URL][/B]
Turkey confirms that SDF had destroyed a Turkish M60A3/1 tank!
1 Turkish tank operator killed, 2 wounded!
[URL="https://twitter.com/BeyondTheLevant/status/769605363486302208"]Destroyed tank in a distance, still burning[/URL].[/QUOTE]
Are there any Turkish FPers who could estimate how the Turkish gov will react to this?
Isn't it really a stupid idea to have moderate, democratic rebels fighting each other instead of the regime or ISIS? Or am I missing something?
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;50961380]Kurdish opposition and FSA were taking pot shots at each other long before Turkish intervention.[/QUOTE]
Is there anything to gain from it? Or is it that the Arab-majority FSA wants to keep the Kurds in place as well? Anyway if everyone is going to pick a fight with each other, this war isn't ending anytime soon.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50961509]FSA doesnt really have the motive to destroy Kurdish cantons. YPG/SDF is making an incursion in Arab lands with one goal, uniting the cantons no matter at whoms expense. The conflict arises here. It is hardly "keeping Kurds in place".
If YPGs goal were to destroy ISIS they would go to Raqqa, not Manbij.
Also, KRG of Iraq backs Turkey in this.[/QUOTE]
I guess I was mistaken, because I thought it was only Arab elements of the SDF who was fighting the FSA right now, the Kurds are also involved or are they getting in involved now?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50961540]Yes YPG pulled back, however SDF still pushes towards Efrin, and uniting the Cantons serves only Kurdish interests.[/QUOTE]
Arab fighting Arabs for the benefit of Kurds? They genuinely think that is a good idea? I have a hard time understanding why they keep fighting each other and just not try to end the war already. Both ISIS and the regime gain from infighting in the opposition.
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq70vpdXYAAls_H.jpg[/img_thumb]
[URL="https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/769821757121372160"]FSA rebels and Turkish forces capture 4 villages from SDF this morning[/URL], which is also 1/3 of SDF territory north of Sinjar river.
If this pace continues, no halting nor slowdowns, SDF will be driven off back north of Sinjar river.
Better quality map:
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/KyYGpMvr.jpg[/img_thumb]
FSA rebels and Turkish tank operator [URL="https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/769831257802960896"]posing for a picture[/URL] at village they captured from SDF this morning.
[QUOTE=RB33;50961428] Anyway if everyone is going to pick a fight with each other, this war isn't ending anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
Its like some weird free for all where anyone can jump in for some war action and no one cares
Sadly, this war is not even half done unless one major foreign power commits full scale intervention.
Turkey went closest to this, but their military personal in Syria is small and focused on small area against ISIS and now SDF while FSA rebels do most of the leg work.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50961695]Sadly, this war is not even half done unless one major foreign power commits full scale intervention.
Turkey went closest to this, but their military personal in Syria is small and focused on small area against ISIS and now SDF while FSA rebels do most of the leg work.[/QUOTE]
If this operation works out properly and the Turkish+FSA forces establish a proper buffer zone(with increased Turkish Army presence), I don't see why committing to a larger scale international intervention network would be unfeasible.
[QUOTE=croguy;50961712]If this operation works out properly and the Turkish+FSA forces establish a proper buffer zone(with increased Turkish Army presence), I don't see why committing to a larger scale international intervention network would be unfeasible.[/QUOTE]
Because of Russians. If Russians weren't directly involved too, even just limited, Turkey would have been steam rolling through regime's frontlines. But Russians make it pretty complicated.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50961727]Because of Russians. If Russians weren't directly involved too, even just limited, Turkey would have been steam rolling through regime's frontlines. But Russians make it pretty complicated.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. So give the Russians what they want and have them establish direct control over their sectors, without Assad. Their motive isn't to reunite Syria under Assad.
[QUOTE=croguy;50961776]Exactly. So give the Russians what they want and have them establish direct control over their sectors, without Assad. Their motive isn't to reunite Syria under Assad.[/QUOTE]
Trouble is, which is typical of all proxies in this war, Assad does not listen to Putin on any governmental nor military changes.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;50961808]Trouble is, which is typical of all proxies in this war, Assad does not listen to Putin on any governmental nor military changes.[/QUOTE]
That just makes him another target. As he rightfully should be.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50961845]What? Russians have been working with Assad in the assault against Palmyra. What sector do Russians have in the middle of that desert?
Russians are allied with Assad, the only "sector" they habve is in Tartus, which is pretty damn safe. Russians are fully supporting Assad, Syrian Arab Republic and SAA.[/QUOTE]
They still want stakes in the oil fields and a secure way of making sure that the SAA doesn't collapse the moment they turn their back on them, thus endangering their interests once again. The scale of their intervention efforts has dropped considerably around the time Palymra was liberated, and that's primarily because they managed to normalize the government's defeat streak, although at this point in time the SAA is still more or less incapable of keeping full control anywhere except where there is a strong Russian presence.
I can assure you, the moment a feasible option arises, they will discard him. He, just like everyone else in Syria, is a fucking pawn.
[QUOTE=croguy;50961840]That just makes him another target. As he rightfully should be.[/QUOTE]
They won't do that, unless they forgot that when as USSR they assassinated uncooperative communist regime leader of Afghanistan it had only spiralled Afghanistan out of their control as they were then seen as foreign invaders even by regime's military.
If they do same to Assad, regime's military will turn against them. Which would be great for rebels, but I doubt Putin is that dumb. But he is still stuck with uncooperative Assad, so he still made that dumb move in first place.
[editline]28th August 2016[/editline]
FSA rebels from Azaz pocket [URL="https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/769845040894140416"]capture two more villages from ISIS[/URL], east of Al-Rai. Only 30 kilometres left to connect with Jarabulus. [URL="https://twitter.com/alhamza_brigade/status/769860391274971137"]They also capture two ISIS fighters[/URL]. One of them is a Russian national, either a Chechen or convert.
FSA-Turkish forces also continue to advance against SDF by capturing [URL="https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/769851012005949440"]another village[/URL].
[URL="http://i.imgur.com/6fcZJdU.gifv"]Animated map of Jarabulus front[/URL], made right before FSA-Turkey captured village Khirbat.
New update, FSA-Turkey continue to advance against ISIS.
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq7-GavUEAAIKS9.jpg:large[/img_thumb]
[URL="https://twitter.com/Paradoxy13/status/769871557875404800"]Another updated[/URL] from Azaz pocket, FSA capture additional 2 more villages from ISIS!
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq8i3ntUsAAamGg.jpg:large[/img_thumb]
Situation at around Al-Rai in Azaz pocket.
[URL="https://twitter.com/ALAMAWI/status/769874431309127680"]FSA rebels also capture another village from SDF[/URL]. As well [URL="https://twitter.com/badly_xeroxed/status/769875262179831808"]more SDF fighters are captured by FSA[/URL], with FSA claiming they had killed several SDF fighters during thier advances.
These advances should force SDF to retreat south of Sanjar river, otherwise they'll risk to have their fighters stuck in a pocket. FSA-Turkey are just steamrolling both SDF and ISIS.
[URL="https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEyes/status/769883446978179072"]Breaking[/URL], FSA-Turkey reach Sinjar river! It won't be long before SDF is expelled back south of Sanjar river.
Overall in just past 24 hours, FSA-Turkey had captured 6+ villages from ISIS and 14+ villages from SDF.
[img_thumb]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cq9D-XNWIAAZTOn.jpg:large[/img_thumb]
[URL="https://twitter.com/archicivilians/status/769909301175549952"]Current situation in Jarabulus area[/URL].
FSA-Turkey did massive gains today.
[img_thumb]http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0b2d/z19nvzn9hbhutdmzg.jpg[/img_thumb]
[URL="https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/769946296606138368"]FSA rebels cross Sinjar river[/URL]!
It looks like FSA-Turkey is going for Manjib afterall!
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