French waiters aren’t rude, they merely demand respect - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47942754]Or even actually a proper minimum wage. From what I know, they get paid way under the minimum wage, relying on tips to make up the difference, so its gone from being a bonus to a job well done to pretty much a necessity.[/QUOTE] if the tips don't make up the difference between actual pay and minimum wage the employer is required by law to make up that difference. [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;47944542]I don't tip in most circumstances. Granted, I don't really ever go out anywhere ever, but when I do go somewhere, I really would like to tip but I can't throw an extra few dollars out my waiter's way because I don't have an extra few dollars.[/QUOTE] if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to eat out.

Tipping is inconvenient and unnecessary, and even if workers do get paid minimum wage, it shouldn't be something the customer has to deal with

[QUOTE=.Lain;47942511]where [I]is[/I] this the case.[/QUOTE] This is the case for third world countries, or at least in Indonesia. It's common to see costumers treating their waiter/waitress without proper respect.

[QUOTE=draugur;47943306]No they don't. I know plenty of wait staff. They don't get minimum they get at least 2.13 an hour and any tips up to minimum wage. [B]They're supposed to, but they never do. [/B]Also minimum wage isn't a livable wage in this country so it's not like it matters anyway. .[/QUOTE] The end result is that they're paid at least the state minimum wage, whether it's from just the employer or employer+tips. The minimum is the absolute minimum. And if we're going to use anecdotes, a friend of mine sometimes clears $2,000 in 2 weeks working as a server. [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=JimmyBowen;47944304]While this being said I live in California where this is the case and it's still really hard to get by, between my girlfriend and I both being waiters/(waitress) we still barely have enough money to pay rent utilities and eat decent food. I can only imagine what it would be like if I didn't get minimum.[/QUOTE] That's California for you. That's an issue with minimum wage not matching rising costs of living.

I rarely tip more than a euro due to not having any salary, however I never treat any of those guys as a laquay of mine. I can spare a little "merci", "s'il vous plait" and "de rien", now that never cost anyone an arm and a leg

[QUOTE=Rocket;47944444]Yes, they advertise the minimum wage for tipped employees. If that minimum wage + tips does not equal the federal minimum wage, the difference must be paid by their employer. Depending on the state, [url=http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm]they may have to do the same for state minimum wage[/url]. Waiters are covered and are not exempt from FLSA. FLSA counts a tipped employee as anyone who makes $30 or more a month in tips. [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] If you're going to snark about it at least be right when you snark.[/QUOTE] Food service and agricultural jobs such as pickers or sorter do not have to be paid minimum wage, period, particularly those under 18. [url]http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs12.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=27X;47945332]Food service and agricultural jobs such as pickers or sorter do not have to be paid minimum wage, period, particularly those under 18. [url]http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs12.htm[/url][/QUOTE] That says it only applies to employers who didn't use more than 500 man days (1 person working at least 1 hour in a day is a "man day") of labor the previous year, and those under 16, not 18. So it seems this is for small farms that hire a few people here and there to help pick, not general agriculture. That also says nothing about food service.

[QUOTE=ryokenshin;47943227]Hahahah.... I do pizza delivery, 34 hours a week across 4 days, taking on average day as many as 15 Deliveries over 8 Hours and making a total average of about 40$ before gas and 3$ less an hour then minimum wage. on top of that. On top of that dealing with people who order a pizza and short change. Mothers who send their 4-5 Y.O. to the door while she hides in plain sight, thinking I some how can't fucking see her, to make it deal with the pizza guy thinking some how when the kid hands me exact change I won't think less of her for sending her kid to the door who obviously doesn't understand what goes on and slowly melts under stress, when clearly her bitch-ass ain't busy. Or my favorite: Scammers. the people who say they got their pizza upside down. Until I take a picture of the pizza and show it to the boss but even then we never seem to black list these assholes. Shit most of my tips come from lottery deliveries, people who tip 10$+ and then go through the rest of the day with stiffs or 1$ tippers. Shit the Dominoes driver down the street gets tipped more then I do.[/QUOTE] Only 15 over 8 hours? Is your place primarily take out or just slow as hell on deliveries (or maybe the traffic is bad)?

[QUOTE=sgman91;47945505] So it seems this is for small farms that hire a few people here and there to help pick, not general agriculture. [/QUOTE] Local state law is 18; furthermore find you and watch the full episode of this: [URL]http://datab.us/Videos/NwWGzQIA1HU[/URL], you'll find it pretty much applies to farms, period; because they rotate their staff so as to pay them next to nothing. It applies to food service here, as long the wait staff does nothing than just that. We're also completely skating over the FL act has to be [I]actively enforced[/I] as myself and at least one other pointed out, you're citing a theoretical absolute where none exists. Case in point: There is one chain breakfast place here; it struggles to maintain profits and has already gone through three owners in two years because the defacto breakfast kings here are local burrito places, the top two are family owned and operated by local dynasties who've been here for decades, however the next four a collection of fly by night operations with shifting names and changing operators because at least two of them are simply waypoints for getting undocumented people into the country since the old method of autobody shops recently came under the sweep of the local immigration office and the DEA. These places have full waitstaff, full inside service, and they get paid jack other than tips. It's a rather poorly kept secret why these people don't speak a word of english and why they routinely trade out entire staffs month to month, and I can guarantee you no one is reporting shit to the local labor board for rather obvious reasons. Every tourist whom hits these places on their way to see Palo Duro canyon, Carlsbad caverns or to hit up the Gulf Coast during spring break pack these places out, and the people inside aren't making what you think they are. Speaking of Labor Board, they recently hit up said casino for not paying out spec, and fired most of the staff, the fine they imposed is chump change compared to the yearly take and sure enough the next batch of employees are dealing with the same issues of pay scaling versus tips because both management and customers tend to treat them like appliances. Once again you'll note the article is about service delivered and respect, not whether the law can be enforced. (Protip: it can't, unless you're big enough to warrant bureaucratic scrutiny.) [quote] take out or just slow as hell [/quote] or a small town or suburb.

[QUOTE=RayvenQ;47942882]Having been a waiter, in the UK, I know better than most how to treat waiters, hell if I'm eating somewhere, at the end of a meal I'll arrange all the dishes and cutlery to make it was easy as possible for the staff. Hell depending on the type of place, I'll take the dishes back to the bar to make it easier. Although over here tipping isn't quite as standard in the US or at least notmto the same degree.[/QUOTE] I always did stuff like that anyway, I just figured it was common courtesy.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;47944542]I don't tip in most circumstances. Granted, I don't really ever go out anywhere ever, but when I do go somewhere, I really would like to tip but I can't throw an extra few dollars out my waiter's way because I don't have an extra few dollars.[/QUOTE] in america if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to go out, end of story

Tipping is a foreign concept in Australia. We just don't, and usually waiters will give you a funny look until they figure out this extra money in your hand is actually for them On the flipside, they actually get paid fairly [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] Waiters also seem to be pretty passive in a lot of places. Beyond the standard Please and Thank You and More Water Please there's no rudesness or niceness. They don't give customers special treatment, and we respect that they're doing a job.

I only tip 2 or 3$. I'm not in a position to do the 15% customary on any order and I rarely meet a waiter or waitress worthy of it regardless. If my waiter is rude and/or extremely lazy, I'll tip them a penny. If they're exceptional, I may go up to $10.

[QUOTE=Alyx Zark;47946376]I only tip 2 or 3$. I'm not in a position to do the 15% customary on any order and I rarely meet a waiter or waitress worthy of it regardless. If my waiter is rude and/or extremely lazy, I'll tip them a penny. If they're exceptional, I may go up to $10.[/QUOTE] [quote] I rarely meet a waiter or waitress worthy of it regardless.[/quote] are you fucking shitting me [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] that's not only assholishly cheap, that's super concieted as well have you ever worked food service at any point in your life

[QUOTE=Scum;47942529]and they deserve respect. waiters and waitresses are super cool[/QUOTE] Not because they are waiters or waitresses, but because they are human beings aswell. The old "treat others how you'd like to be treated". This isn't hard, why would someone not do it?...

Dunno if its just a UK thing but me and pretty much everyone I know very rarely actually tips when eating out. We do it for a few places we really like or if its a special event or something but when it's just like a cafe or something, I've never thought about it and never noticed anyone else do it. Would say most of the time its because a lot of the places around here sport a pay first system. I do see the point to this though, they are people and they are doing a job, treating them like trash is just disrespectful plus if you treat someone else badly, you can most certainly expect the same treatment back in one form of another, direct or indirect.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47946399]are you fucking shitting me [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] that's not only assholishly cheap, that's super concieted as well have you ever worked food service at any point in your life[/QUOTE] Hey, I never tip. Why? Because I can't even afford to go to places with waiters :v:

if i didn't have enough money to tip, i'd go to mcdonalds or something like, i always factor in the tip before deciding on where to eat, i feel like a lot of people forget about it until it's time to actually pay

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47946439]if i didn't have enough money to tip, i'd go to mcdonalds or something like, i always factor in the tip before deciding on where to eat, i feel like a lot of people forget about it until it's time to actually pay[/QUOTE] man, america is weird

You guys keep referring to America which kind of makes me think ignorance because I've been living here for 19 years and I've never seen a waiter or waitress treated without respect. The worst I've seen is someone not say please or thank you

[QUOTE=Zombie man70;47946498]You guys keep referring to America which kind of makes me think ignorance because I've been living here for 19 years and I've never seen a waiter or waitress treated without respect. The worst I've seen is someone not say please or thank you[/QUOTE] i've been living here for 19 years and both of my jobs have been food service, and i've seen some massive shitwads in my time anecdotes are funny like that

I just don't know how stupid you have to be to fuck with someone who's partially in charge of handling your food.

[QUOTE=zach1193;47947218]I just don't know how stupid you have to be to fuck with someone who's partially in charge of handling your food.[/QUOTE] If you survive and they get caught, you can sue for massive profit.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47942503]To a person from Britain, where, since de-industrialisation, our economy seems to have revolved almost entirely round car insurance meerkats, spray tans and, most of all, posh burgers, this may seem strange. In France, the provision of services is not the be-all and end-all[/QUOTE] the only truth behind this sentence is the word 'seems' in terms of industrial production, UK is ahead of France. In terms of GDP from services, France is ahead. So, for France, provision of services is more 'the be all and end all' than it is the UK. essentially, I think the argument of "services aren't as important to the french economy than they are to the UK's, thus it is more respected" is a complete load of bull

I wonder what proportion of the tourists who complain about rude waiters were treated that way because they were being assholes themselves.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47946399]are you fucking shitting me [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] that's not only assholishly cheap, that's super concieted as well have you ever worked food service at any point in your life[/QUOTE] I used to be a waiter and he isn't assholishly cheap for dropping 2-3 bucks. Jesus the job isn't that fucking hard, back at taco bell was much more stressful. But I never was tipped when I was busting my ass there. I was actually astonished that my 3/hr desperate waiter gig made me atleast $25/hr when tips included. All I had to do was take a plate to a table. Most of my tips were only $2-$5 too. [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47946287]in america if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to go out, end of story[/QUOTE] Unless you're eating at a fast food place because fuck those guys.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47946287]in america if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to go out, end of story[/QUOTE] Why would you even eat out at all if you don't have the money to tip. If you're legitimately poor then eating out is one of the least cost effective things you can do compared to eating homecooked food. If you're absolutely strapped for cash and are going out with friends, just get something small like an entree, leave a decent tip, then go home and eat a proper meal there.

[QUOTE=Reagy;47946419]Dunno if its just a UK thing but me and pretty much everyone I know very rarely actually tips when eating out. We do it for a few places we really like or if its a special event or something but when it's just like a cafe or something, I've never thought about it and never noticed anyone else do it. Would say most of the time its because a lot of the places around here sport a pay first system. I do see the point to this though, they are people and they are doing a job, treating them like trash is just disrespectful plus if you treat someone else badly, you can most certainly expect the same treatment back in one form of another, direct or indirect.[/QUOTE] Well here they get paid the full minimum wage so that's why there's no need to tip.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47946399]are you fucking shitting me [editline]13th June 2015[/editline] that's not only assholishly cheap, that's super concieted as well [B]have you ever worked food service at any point in your life[/B][/QUOTE] I always laugh whenever people bring this up. Stop acting like food service is the hardest fucking job in the world. You get the orders and you bring out the food. You deal with the occasional irate customer, just like literally every other job where you have direct contact with the customer. There are [I]many[/I] other non-tipped jobs, yet I don't hear them crying "hurr only people who haven't worked food service don't know how hard it is." If an 18yr old in/fresh out of highschool can do the job, then it's [I]very[/I] difficult to believe that it's such a hard job. On top of all that, you already have a whole tipping culture standing right behind you to supplement your wage. I already tip because it's customary and all that bullshit, but stop acting conceited as fuck. You're doing your job that you're already paid to do. TIPPING should never be expected. Just do your job well because it's your fucking job

[QUOTE=Alyx Zark;47946376]I only tip 2 or 3$. I'm not in a position to do the 15% customary on any order and I rarely meet a waiter or waitress worthy of it regardless. If my waiter is rude and/or extremely lazy, I'll tip them a penny. If they're exceptional, I may go up to $10.[/QUOTE] You've either got ridiculously high standards or you're just trying to find an excuse for being cheap