French waiters aren’t rude, they merely demand respect - Polidicks

Numerous studies coming from different angles have shown that tipping and other bonuses arising from the quality of work (percieved or otherwise) have no positive influence on worksmanship, but can have a negative influence on both work quality and job satisfaction. Getting good tips becomes a numbers game where the waiter/waitress tries to serve more people faster as opposed to better, because you're not likely to get good tips either way... but more people = more opportunities. It's actually perfectly reasonable and efficient to break it down this way, but that's the problem: the tipping doesn't lead to better service, it leads to the exact opposite, defeating the whole purpose. We have tipping culture here too (Canada) and everyone in food service hates it. Unfortunately the more conservative types seem to think that tips promote good service when I can't possibly see how. Consider from the server's point of view: the tip may or may not come at the end, it may or may not be decent, and both of these factors are more likely to be influenced by the beliefs and whims of the client ("I don't tip", "I only tip $2.50 no matter the price", etc) than any special action on the waiter/waitress' part.

[QUOTE=T_T crai2;47953417]Hey, fuck you asshole, tell that to my face after a 9 hour shift waiting 500+ tables in an extremely high foot traffic restaurant. Nobody said it was the hardest job in the world. Granted, I'd rather be dealing with cunts like you than siphoning shit out of sewers, but stop acting like because we aren't dealing with the gnarliest of the gnar, we aren't entitled to an opinion. [B]Edit:[/B] like, holy shit, fuck you uggghhhh[/QUOTE] Come the fuck on man. What kind of hellhole are you serving in, it isn't that fucking bad.

[QUOTE=Monkey pie;47953669]Come the fuck on man. What kind of hellhole are you serving in, it isn't that fucking bad.[/QUOTE] Yes it is. I'm not a server, I'm a chef. But at the restaurant that I'm working in currently, what I've seen is consistent with what he's saying.

[QUOTE=Monkey pie;47953669]Come the fuck on man. What kind of hellhole are you serving in, it isn't that fucking bad.[/QUOTE] I work in the middle of the tourist hub in Hawaii. The restaurant in particular is one of the highest ranked and busiest out of the entire chain. You don't think it's possible?

[QUOTE=T_T crai2;47953743]I work in the middle of the tourist hub in Hawaii. The restaurant in particular is one of the highest ranked and busiest out of the entire chain. You don't think it's possible?[/QUOTE] Nice, what restaurant do you work in?

[QUOTE=New Cidem;47949440]The food industry is extremely stressful, unrewarding, and possibly dangerous. I work at a deli where people line up out the restaurant, fight each other, and sprint to beat others in line. One day, the power went out at the restaurant. The massive line of people waiting would have to leave, without electricity the kitchen staff could not cook. A group of "guests" decided to take their aggression out on a truck parked on the side of the building (reserved for employees) by smashing the windshield out with a rock. Coincidentally, this was my bosses' truck. On another occasion, an "irate" (as you so simply put it) guest followed me from where she was in line to personally insult me because I was on break, rather than taking orders. She insulted me for my appearance, my disabilities, and my perceived lack of importance. The local police are posted as [i]fucking guards during times of heavy business to prevent high school students and other guests from attacking each other or staff.[/i] And for your information, the great majority of fresh High School graduates [i]cannot[/i] do the job. The extreme stress, physical labor, and the duration of shifts make them all quit within a week. And here's the thing about it, we don't even have to take tips. We're paid $12 an hour and it's still too much for the average person to do. But no, by all means, continue to ride your high horse all the way to smugville, buddy.[/QUOTE] I don't completely agree with waxrock but do you live in Somalia or something, what the fuck. People [b]riot[/b] when they can't get their bologna where you live?

[QUOTE=Zombie man70;47946498]You guys keep referring to America which kind of makes me think ignorance because I've been living here for 19 years and I've never seen a waiter or waitress treated without respect. The worst I've seen is someone not say please or thank you[/QUOTE] Worst I've seen was the time a couple of drunks came into our restaurant late at night, ordered food, then proceeded to flip the table when it was delivered. [editline]14th June 2015[/editline] Also I have nothing but the utmost respect for waiters/waitresses. Waiting in a restaurant with a full house is pretty damned stressful

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47953366]congrats you found the best way to completely break the section rotation and make every single server hate your favorite host [editline]14th June 2015[/editline] fucking get a load of this high-horse cunt who thinks it's cool to shit on the people who bring him his food you don't need a fucking degree or any fucking complicated skillsets to work in a restaurant, you just need the infinite patience to deal with untold numbers of assholes who think they're superior to you because you don't need a degree or any complicated skillsets to work in a restaurant, while also multitasking every table you may have on a busy night, and doing sidework, and bussing those tables, and dealing with possible shitty management the fact is, literally [I]no job[/I] out there has as much customer interaction as waiting tables, and the assholes outnumber the cool folks 2:1 like, the amount of scumfuck people posting in this thread in general should probably clue you in to exactly how badly food service workers have it[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=T_T crai2;47953417]Hey, fuck you asshole, tell that to my face after a 9 hour shift waiting 500+ tables in an extremely high foot traffic restaurant. Nobody said it was the hardest job in the world. Granted, I'd rather be dealing with cunts like you than siphoning shit out of sewers, but stop acting like because we aren't dealing with the gnarliest of the gnar, we aren't entitled to an opinion. [B]Edit:[/B] like, holy shit, fuck you uggghhhh[/QUOTE] Holy-fucking-reading-comprehension. What fucking high horse? How am I shitting on food service? Literally all I've said all thread that it isn't the most difficult job in the world. I've also never said that it's the easiest yet you're acting like I literally stiff every waiter I come across. Second, "assholes outnumber cool folks 2:1". Bull-fucking-shit. Are you living in a warped reality where literally 2 out of 3 people you serve throw shit at you just because they're assholes? I don't even know what to say to that. Yeah man, that's totally happening and is totally exclusive to food service. Third, I will fucking tell you that to your face if you ever try to give me lip about it during your work. No fucking shit I won't just randomly say that to any worker because hey I'm not retarded, but god forbid I express my opinion on tipping culture as it relates to food service [I]on a public forum.[/I] Fourth, what the fuck kind of hellhole are you guys working that you're so fucking adamant about your job? My god. If it's really as bad as you say, then why the fuck are you working it? Oh right it's the fucking money. Because otherwise if it really was that bad no one would be working it. But here we are. It sure as shit isn't because you want to be customer service-oriented because there are a fuckton of other jobs that cater to the customers more directly.

"get a new job" lmfao let me just go down to the job orchard because apparently they grow on trees now i'm only working here in the first place because i can't drive and my pal works at the same place and gives me rides to work, but feel free to keep assuming things about my life buddy :smile: [QUOTE=waxrock;47955123]I've also never said that it's the easiest[/QUOTE] i mean that was kinda the whole basis behind your whole "only high schoolers work food service" spiel, trying to imply that it's ~so easy a bunch of kids can do it~ [QUOTE=waxrock;47955123]Second, "assholes outnumber cool folks 2:1". Bull-fucking-shit. Are you living in a warped reality where literally 2 out of 3 people you serve throw shit at you just because they're assholes? I don't even know what to say to that. Yeah man, that's totally happening and is totally exclusive to food service.[/QUOTE] you don't notice it because apparently you [I]are[/I] one of those assholes [QUOTE=waxrock;47955123]I'm not retarded[/QUOTE] debatable honestly for the sake of your service and the sanity of everyone given the displeasure of serving you, stop going to waited restaurants because i can guarantee that whichever server you have is gonna pick up on your shit attitude

I always tip 20% or more unless someone is a dickhead

Why are waiters in US not paid a minimum wage like normal jobs?

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47955276]Why are waiters in US not paid a minimum wage like normal jobs?[/QUOTE] they are, it varies state-to-state, but federal law mandates that the employer has to make it up to minimum wage if the server doesn't earn enough tips to make minimum

[QUOTE=New Cidem;47949440]The food industry is extremely stressful, unrewarding, and possibly dangerous. I work at a deli where people line up out the restaurant, fight each other, and sprint to beat others in line. One day, the power went out at the restaurant. The massive line of people waiting would have to leave, without electricity the kitchen staff could not cook. A group of "guests" decided to take their aggression out on a truck parked on the side of the building (reserved for employees) by smashing the windshield out with a rock. Coincidentally, this was my bosses' truck. On another occasion, an "irate" (as you so simply put it) guest followed me from where she was in line to personally insult me because I was on break, rather than taking orders. She insulted me for my appearance, my disabilities, and my perceived lack of importance. The local police are posted as [i]fucking guards during times of heavy business to prevent high school students and other guests from attacking each other or staff.[/i] And for your information, the great majority of fresh High School graduates [i]cannot[/i] do the job. The extreme stress, physical labor, and the duration of shifts make them all quit within a week. And here's the thing about it, we don't even have to take tips. We're paid $12 an hour and it's still too much for the average person to do. But no, by all means, continue to ride your high horse all the way to smugville, buddy.[/QUOTE] Do you live in fucking Somalia or something? Jesus christ. By and large the food service industry isn't "dangerous", stressful? Probably. Tiring? Yeah, I can see that. Unrewarding? You're taking orders and serving them, the rewards aren't ever going to be great there tbh. But dangerous? Outside of serving people in a fucking warzone or having the occasional nut come in a start shit you shouldn't be in danger. Tipping culture is fucking weird and confuses me and basically many other people within the EU. Why not, I dunno, pay your workers properly in the first place and take the burden of your employee being able to eat that evening off the customers? The very few times I've seen tips in the UK have been in higher end restaurants and during bigger events where the party would have been a pain in the ass to serve and not want to hang yourself out back. But never mandatory tips.

[QUOTE=Monkey pie;47953259]Tipping is stupid. End of story.[/QUOTE] well gee i guess that's it then :downs:

I've worked as a cleaner in a hotel before and we don't get tips, despite the fact cleaners dealt with shit (sometimes literal) and assholes. I've never noticed tipping improving service at all, and the concept in itself seems highly insulting.

[QUOTE=Deng;47955380]I've worked as a cleaner in a hotel before and we don't get tips, despite the fact cleaners dealt with shit (sometimes literal) and assholes. I've never noticed tipping improving service at all, and the concept in itself seems highly insulting.[/QUOTE] don't tip to improve service, tip to sympathize with shitty jobs dealing with fuckwads also, europe

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47955405]don't tip to improve service, tip to sympathize with shitty jobs dealing with fuckwads also, europe[/QUOTE] Do hotel cleaners get tips in America?

[QUOTE=Deng;47955428]Do hotel cleaners get tips in America?[/QUOTE] yep [editline]14th June 2015[/editline] typically, at least

[QUOTE=Deng;47955428]Do hotel cleaners get tips in America?[/QUOTE] "if i can't have it nobody else can"

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47955433]yep[/QUOTE] How much and how often? I haven't heard of this before and I've looked it up. Not even confused American tourists here have tried leaving any tips. [editline]14th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Rofl_copter;47955436]"if i can't have it nobody else can"[/QUOTE] To be fair sir, the point I was making is that hardworking people get shafted on tips because they do less visible but just as (if not more) important jobs. But that doesn't matter in Britain because we actually get paid like normal people. Employers are obliged to pay their workers wages, and to use tipping as a means of making a living is both incredibly degrading and highly insulting.

[QUOTE=Deng;47955445]How much and how often? I haven't heard of this before and I've looked it up. Not even confused American tourists here have tried leaving any tips.[/QUOTE] i'm not sure how much, i don't stay in hotels often, but i've heard to leave the money somewhere visible before leaving the room for the day [editline]14th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Deng;47955445]Employers are obliged to pay their workers wages, and to use tipping as a means of making a living is both incredibly degrading and highly insulting.[/QUOTE] nobody's arguing with you there

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47955157]"get a new job" lmfao let me just go down to the job orchard because apparently they grow on trees now i'm only working here in the first place because i can't drive and my pal works at the same place and gives me rides to work, but feel free to keep assuming things about my life buddy :smile: i mean that was kinda the whole basis behind your whole "only high schoolers work food service" spiel, trying to imply that it's ~so easy a bunch of kids can do it~ you don't notice it because apparently you [I]are[/I] one of those assholes debatable honestly for the sake of your service and the sanity of everyone given the displeasure of serving you, stop going to waited restaurants because i can guarantee that whichever server you have is gonna pick up on your shit attitude[/QUOTE] Is English not your native language or something? Please point out and quote where I stated, explicitly or implicitly, that "only high schoolers work food service". I will continue assuming stuff about you since you're doing the same to me. Judging by your reading comprehension skills, it's no fucking wonder you're having a hard time finding jobs. I didn't realize that talking about this issue means I'm an absolutely dick to waiters. Good to know that. For your sake, I hope you keep your job. God knows you can't get anything else.

[QUOTE=waxrock;47949143]If an 18yr old in/fresh out of highschool can do the job, then it's [I]very[/I] difficult to believe that it's such a hard job.[/QUOTE] implicit [QUOTE=waxrock;47949772]And for your information, I know [I]plenty[/I] of people in the food service who also recently graduated from HS. Seriously, it's the fucking food service. It's not sales at a retail store. It's not customer service. I guaran-fucking-tee you putting down "food service" as past employment isn't going to get you any oohs or aahs. Stop your crying.[/QUOTE] implicit you're trying to imply that food service is some sort of simplistic menial labor fit for those who can't work anywhere else, and it shows a lot about exactly how distasteful a person you must be [QUOTE=waxrock;47955493]an absolutely dick[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=waxrock;47955493]Is English not your native language or something?[/QUOTE]

Waiters and waitresses are super cool, but tipping is inconvenient and unnecessary, and even if workers do get paid minimum wage, it shouldn't be something the customer has to deal with, so in France a 15% tip is automatically added so no-one has to demand it. In america if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to go out, end of story, but tipping is simply not a thing in countries with established workers rights and proper wages like my own.

[quote]...9 hour shift waiting 500+ tables... [/quote] Also, I can't believe I didn't address this earlier. Assuming 9 hr shift with 500 tables you're serving a new table every minute almost. And you're doing the whole ordering, serving, waiting, and bussing. Yeah man, you're totally doing 500+ tables during your shift.

asking tourists (or as it seems in this article, demanding) to learn the native language even a little just for a tourist visit is goddamn stupid. in 2015 you cannot reasonably expect every person that wants to go visit France to go buy a book just for a week long trip. what, am i going to have to some how remember 80 different languages if i want to travel the world? and quite frankly, i think this whole news article is a load of bullshit. literally a whole half of my family is off-the-boat French American and we take trips over there a lot more frequently than we visit other countries. every time we go, my aunts and grandma all speak french and they ALL universally complain that the service industries are so terrible compared to the American ones. sure, American waiters/waitresses might get treated like low-wage servants, but at least they're fucking personable

[QUOTE=Antlerp;47955544]but tipping is simply not a thing in countries with established workers rights and proper wages like my own.[/QUOTE] Tipping is not a thing in Germany? I've heard the opposite from germans. Maybe not everywhere, but in nicer restaurants it seems to the polite thing to do. I have a hard time tipping because tipping literally exists nowhere in Finland. It's not a thing. Restaurant has to be real fucking nice if tipping is even considered normal, and it's still not required. Generally we just say "keep the rest" when your bill is like 18.50 and you pay with a 20€ bill, and it has more to do with not wanting coins than a tip. I find tipping confusing and scary and almost only eat fast food abroad.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47955535]you're trying to imply that food service is some sort of simplistic menial labor fit for those who can't work anywhere else[/QUOTE] It kind of is, it's unskilled labor after all. But that isn't to say it doesn't have hardship and shit. Most unskilled jobs are fairly demanding because the employers tend to want to justify paying you at all, and due to competition for these roles (thanks to the lack of education as a requirement and all that) if you start slipping behind they're going to replace you with a different candidate obviously. I know menial, unskilled labor, I've worked it for most of my legally allowed teenage life. Food service is a similar tier of work. Anyone can apply for it, it's a pretty simple job in terms of tasks (not necessarily in quantity of tasks), and it pays like shit for the work you do. Stop this nonsense of trying to make everyone pointing out that waiting tables isn't a super top-tier job as nothing but irredeemable assholes. Most of these people are probably the exact kind of customer you'd want, someone who wont kick up a fuss because they know your job is shit.

[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;47955535]implicit implicit you're trying to imply that food service is some sort of simplistic menial labor fit for those who can't work anywhere else, and it shows a lot about exactly how distasteful a person you must be[/QUOTE] Says the fuck that can't debate without resorting to calling names in the first place. Let me spell it out for you. If a recent HS graduate is capable of doing a job, then there's no way in hell that job is as hard as you are making it to be. Period. And I will explicitly say that, yes, food service is a simple, menial job. Do you even know what menial means? It's an entry level job and no one gives a shit if you put it on your resume.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;47955585]It kind of is, it's unskilled labor after all. But that isn't to say it doesn't have hardship and shit. Most unskilled jobs are fairly demanding because the employers tend to want to justify paying you at all, and due to competition for these roles (thanks to the lack of education as a requirement and all that) if you start slipping behind they're going to replace you with a different candidate obviously. I know menial, unskilled labor, I've worked it for most of my legally allowed teenage life. Food service is a similar tier of work. Anyone can apply for it, it's a pretty simple job in terms of tasks (not necessarily in quantity of tasks), and it pays like shit for the work you do. Stop this nonsense of trying to make everyone pointing out that waiting tables isn't a super top-tier job as nothing but irredeemable assholes. Most of these people are probably the exact kind of customer you'd want, someone who wont kick up a fuss because they know your job is shit.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you are right. Myself and many academics bunch fast food work into the category of unskilled labour.