** 9% of Sanders supporters aren't willing to raise their tax obligations for universal healthcare - Polidicks

[QUOTE=sgman91;50138835]It's an interesting dilemma when the majority of people can force the minority to pay for stuff. Once that happens the only thing stopping a total gouging of the minority is the good nature of the majority.[/QUOTE] The "majority" aren't the ones lobbying congress for billions every year to pass favorable legislation.

this article is asinine, im pretty sure bernie supporters are less wealthy than clinton or cruz supporters therefore they dont feel they should pay for government programs, the rich should that's the whole point

[QUOTE]When we polled voters, we found most Sanders supporters aren't willing to pay more than an additional $1,000 in taxes for his biggest proposals.[/QUOTE] Definitely has nothing to do with the fact that a significant portion of Sander's supporters simply couldn't [I]afford[/I] more than $1k. At my last job I brought home about $1140 per month before taxes and only about $940 per month after taxes. Paying an addition one thousand in taxes would be an entire month's pay for me at that wage.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50138959]The phenomenon I'm talking about is a pretty recent one. We're sitting right around the important number of 50% of the US population not paying any federal income tax. Once that happens it will be as easy as getting the bottom 50% of voters to decide on giving themselves benefits by taxing the minority. Now, it's not that simple because poorer people are less likely to be politically active, but the percentages are getting larger, not smaller. So we'll get there eventually.[/QUOTE] If 50% of people are making so little income that they aren't even worth being taxed, maybe that's a sign that there's an issue? like I get that you're all "people are responsible for their own wellbeing" and all that, I get you but from a purely practical perspective, you don't really think that society will be able to just remain like that forever, do you? Do you really think people will just shrug and accept indefinite poverty?

shit, I already pay a little over 20% in taxes from my weekly pay and head home with $405 after taxes. Now you want more? Instead of giving me tax returns for each tax season, take what I'm already giving you AND SPEND IT RESPONSIBLY.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50139763]shit, I already pay a little over 20% in taxes from my weekly pay and head home with $405 after taxes. Now you want more? Instead of giving me tax returns for each tax season, take what I'm already giving you AND SPEND IT RESPONSIBLY.[/QUOTE] I don't think you really understand how tax returns work.

[QUOTE=geel9;50139782]I don't think you really understand how tax returns work.[/QUOTE] annual statement of income with federal government and used in assessment in of tax liability, prick. instead of refunding me the money they already took, just put that money to work.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50139820]annual statement of income with federal government and used in assessment in of tax liability, prick. [B]instead of refunding me the money they already took, just put that money to work.[/B][/QUOTE] That's the indication you don't really understand tax dollars, not the other part.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50139822]That's the indication you don't really understand tax dollars, not the other part.[/QUOTE] What more is there to understand in tax dollars other than "government collects revenue to pay for its operations." please, explain it. go on. don't just sit there all smug and not explain anything.

An American NHS equivalent would be far, far more efficient than the current system. If you look at the NHS, it costs around $2500/person, whereas medicare and medicaid (i.e. not even covering much of the population) cost around $9000/person, and that is for every person, not just those covered. This is largely because single payer systems are in a very strong position when it comes to bargaining with suppliers to reduce costs (IIRC hip replacements cost something like 10x as much in the US). Whilst the scale of the system (300 million people rather than 60 million at a lower population density) will increase the cost, it's not unreasonable to suggest the possibility of an american NHS costing less than medicare/medicaid currently do.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50139829]What more is there to understand in tax dollars other than "government collects revenue to pay for its operations." please, explain it. go on. don't just sit there all smug and not explain anything.[/QUOTE] It's a pretty complex issue I don't fully understand, suffice it to say, it's not just as simple as "Spend what you have".

[QUOTE=Alice3173;50139693]Definitely has nothing to do with the fact that a significant portion of Sander's supporters simply couldn't [I]afford[/I] more than $1k. At my last job I brought home about $1140 per month before taxes and only about $940 per month after taxes. Paying an addition one thousand in taxes would be an entire month's pay for me at that wage.[/QUOTE] Stop whining and become rich then, and money won't be a problem for you. /s

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50139829]What more is there to understand in tax dollars other than "government collects revenue to pay for its operations." please, explain it. go on. don't just sit there all smug and not explain anything.[/QUOTE] When you get a tax return it's not the government being nice. What happens is your employer withholds x% of your wages every check. That percentage is based on an estimation of how much you will end up owing at the end of the year. Generally, that is an overestimation, so you actually paid too much over the course of the year compared to how much you really owed, so they return to you what you overpaid. They were never able to put that money to work because it was not owed to them.

Now separate 'unwilling' from 'unable'.

[QUOTE=geel9;50139868]When you get a tax return it's not the government being nice. What happens is your employer withholds x% of your wages every check. That percentage is based on an estimation of how much you will end up owing at the end of the year. Generally, that is an overestimation, so you actually paid too much over the course of the year compared to how much you really owed, so they return to you what you overpaid. They were never able to put that money to work because it was not owed to them.[/QUOTE] I've actually heard that explanation before, now that I think back. Still manages to piss me off.

For reference, I'm self-employed and thus don't pre-pay taxes. I end up owing tens of thousands in taxes at the end of the year while everyone else gets a "refund." It nets out to the same, but if you actually think about it, everyone else gets fucked because they don't have access to their money until the refund comes in.

Yeah uh refunds are the governments way of apologizing for the activities of the horrible companies withholding.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;50139963]Yeah uh refunds are the governments way of apologizing for the activities of the horrible companies withholding.[/QUOTE] I can't tell what you're trying to say here

Mexico is going to pay

[QUOTE=geel9;50139967]I can't tell what you're trying to say here[/QUOTE] Siding with you. Its scummy for companies to do what they're doing IMO because what they should pay is always less than what they actually do. However, there are cases that its expected: unpaid leave, etc, but I still believe it should be properly withheld.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;50139983]Siding with you. Its scummy for companies to do what they're doing IMO because what they should pay is always less than what they actually do. However, there are cases that its expected: unpaid leave, etc, but I still believe it should be properly withheld.[/QUOTE] I'm not really sure I agree. The companies themselves aren't paying your taxes, they're taking from your paycheck and sending that money to the government. It's also actually something they have to do.

[QUOTE=insane taco;50138712]What idiot wouldn't pay a few extra bucks a month for health care and would rather be $5000 in the hole if they break their arm.[/QUOTE] the unemployed 16 year olds that vote for sanders?

[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50139833]An American NHS equivalent would be far, far more efficient than the current system. If you look at the NHS, it costs around $2500/person, whereas medicare and medicaid (i.e. not even covering much of the population) cost around $9000/person, and that is for every person, not just those covered. This is largely because single payer systems are in a very strong position when it comes to bargaining with suppliers to reduce costs (IIRC hip replacements cost something like 10x as much in the US). Whilst the scale of the system (300 million people rather than 60 million at a lower population density) will increase the cost, it's not unreasonable to suggest the possibility of an american NHS costing less than medicare/medicaid currently do.[/QUOTE] What's stupid is if we tried enacting a NHS system, they'd tack onto page infinity+1 that it's not allowed to negotiate prices just so that it becomes massively expensive and the Republicans can rally against it Medicare and Medicaid are already expensive boondoggles the Republicans constantly talk about axing (at least until their geriatric voters hear about it) because it's prices are too expensive when there's a fucking amendment nailed to it saying "these services cannot negotiate prices!" Because that would make them better than private insurance companies in terms of bargaining power

[QUOTE=geel9;50139988]I'm not really sure I agree. The companies themselves aren't paying your taxes, they're taking from your paycheck and sending that money to the government. It's also actually something they have to do.[/QUOTE] Yes and they do it typically based on your expected salary and if you get a tax return it means that they paid you less than what you should have been paid because you didn't make the mark.

[QUOTE=geel9;50139988]I'm not really sure I agree. The companies themselves aren't paying your taxes, they're taking from your paycheck and sending that money to the government. It's also actually something they have to do.[/QUOTE] In Germany (at least for government jobs afaik) you it's handled a little differently: You can actually choose your advance tax bracket to some extent, but you still have to "do your taxes" at some point to get it paid back out. I wonder if it's possible to opt out of the constant taxes that way and pay it all in the end (but that would likely be somewhat inconvenient for many people, since they'd have to keep track of their money much more thoroughly and it's not that easy to "let it work" for you here due to low interest rates).

[QUOTE=Map in a box;50140564]Yes and they do it typically based on your expected salary and if you get a tax return it means that they paid you less than what you should have been paid because you didn't make the mark.[/QUOTE] Sure but they can't control for extra deductions you may have, days you call in sick, etc.

[QUOTE=geel9;50140597]Sure but they can't control for extra deductions you may have, days you call in sick, etc.[/QUOTE] Also tipped income. I made 36 last year before taxes but my employer only paid me 18ish of that. And since he can't predict that, yeah, I usually end up getting a refund. Not a huge refund though, my federal taxes are never more than a few hundred off. This year the state only owed me $2.

[QUOTE=geel9;50140597]Sure but they can't control for extra deductions you may have, days you call in sick, etc.[/QUOTE] I account for that. Deductions would make your refund smaller though.

[QUOTE=Kentz;50140019]the unemployed 16 year olds that vote for sanders?[/QUOTE] Funny thought the voting age was 18

[QUOTE=Map in a box;50141331]I account for that. Deductions would make your refund smaller though.[/QUOTE] All I'm saying is it's rather difficult to determine exactly how much you'll owe on your taxes, so they tend to overestimate slightly to avoid their employees having an unexpected expense in April.