[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51383148]What quite do you mean, do you mean how many votes each state would have given to each candidate?
I mean it's pretty easy math to do but im lazy so yeesh putting it on a map[/QUOTE]
Basically, percentage of Republican/Democrat/Green/Libertarian votes are used to decide how the electoral college votes of every state are granted.
[QUOTE=nox;51377820]RIGGED.
Even after the results, this election continues to be a huge stack of fuck.[/QUOTE]
Rigged Trump said the elections are rigged and he still managed to win. Rigged Trump is Putins puppet.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;51382314]well I didn't imply that, and each state will have a different level of influence because of the differing population.[/QUOTE]
So you [I]are [/I]implying that. A [B][I]true [/I][/B]democracy doesn't differentiate between "provinces" or "states" in any other way than statistically. A [I][B]true [/B][/I]democracy is counting all votes from all states, and not separating them or sorting them according to each state. A true democracy is taking all ~90 million votes of this election, seeing which candidate got the most across the board and whoever got the most wins. THAT is a democracy. Not whatever the hell you're proposing. You're electing 1 president and government, not 50. States should therefor be irrelevant.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51377835][media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/798521053551140864[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/798519600413601792[/media]
:v:[/QUOTE]
Donald no... you cant possibly think that will work... you just cant.
Will that changes anything anyway? Trump won, and the popular votes wasn't enough to win the victory for Clinton.
[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;51384991]Will that changes anything anyway? Trump won, and the popular votes wasn't enough to win the victory for Clinton.[/QUOTE]
It won't, it's just funny watching Trump flip on his positions from "electoral college is bad and unfair" to "electoral college is good and fair"
[QUOTE=EcksDee;51384996]It won't, it's just funny watching Trump flip on his positions from "electoral college is bad and unfair" to "electoral college is good and fair"[/QUOTE]
I really hope he addresses this at some point. The popular vote is irrelevant now and when he was complaining about it, because it's not and it wasn't how the president is chosen. I just want him to address that the system is flawed, and hopefully try to change it in a positive way.
[QUOTE=Coyoteze;51384418]So you [I]are [/I]implying that. A [B][I]true [/I][/B]democracy doesn't differentiate between "provinces" or "states" in any other way than statistically. A [I][B]true [/B][/I]democracy is counting all votes from all states, and not separating them or sorting them according to each state. A true democracy is taking all ~90 million votes of this election, seeing which candidate got the most across the board and whoever got the most wins. THAT is a democracy. Not whatever the hell you're proposing. You're electing 1 president and government, not 50. States should therefor be irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
you're either blind or ignoring my point or trying to set me up for something.
each state will be weighed differently because they have differing populations. this would also be t rue for a direct democracy. the US is not a "true democracy" to begin with though
[QUOTE=Map in a box;51385022]you're either blind or ignoring my point or trying to set me up for something.
each state will be weighed differently because they have differing populations. this would also be t rue for a direct democracy. the US is not a "true democracy" to begin with though[/QUOTE]
To me the most important factor is that there are state laws and when the country is large enough you can have vastly different natural environments as well. (higher chances of tornado, flood, drought, etc)
I still think it's a good analogy to imagine the entire world voting for something. China and India would have the biggest influence if it was just by popular vote. Depending on the what the vote is for being Chinese can have a big influence on what you would vote for which would be unfair for the rest of the world.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;51385022]you're either blind or ignoring my point or trying to set me up for something.
each state will be weighed differently because they have differing populations. this would also be t rue for a direct democracy. the US is not a "true democracy" to begin with though[/QUOTE]
What part of "count the total tally" are you having trouble understanding? [I]In a true democracy, the states don't have individual power based on population.[/I] You count [B][I]all[/I][/B] the votes, in their [I][B]total[/B][/I]. That's it. It's so goddamn simple. You're fixated on state power when [I]a true democracy has none of that shit.[/I]
[QUOTE=CapsAdmin;51385046]To me the most important factor is that there are state laws and when the country is large enough you can have vastly different natural environments as well. (higher chances of tornado, flood, drought, etc)
I still think it's a good analogy to imagine the entire world voting for something. China and India would have the biggest influence if it was just by popular vote. Depending on the what the vote is for being Chinese can have a big influence on what you would vote for which would be unfair for the rest of the world.[/QUOTE]
But then in the world vote that's unfair to weight things against the Chinese and again, why would population be the only thing to weight for?
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51385158]But then in the world vote that's unfair to weight things against the Chinese and again, why would population be the only thing to weight for?[/QUOTE]
When you say weight against do you mean in the electoral vote system sense? I'm only saying the idea of a plain popular vote is unfair in some cases. The electoral vote is an attempt but apparently not a very good one.
But in this world vote case the countries like Iceland will barely have an influence on the vote. I think it's unfair because Iceland doesn't deal with the same problems as China or even the other way around. China doesn't represent Iceland just because their population is larger.
I think it has to do with protecting unpopular views (both good and bad) to me. Just having a popular vote will bias everything to the most popular view. I think this is not good for society in the long run.
Donald Trump Already won presidency. What is there to say? Majority of Americans wants him to be their president. If this is how they want democracy, let them have it and pray to god that Trump will not do something stupid like cutting off all ties with the European Union and leaving NATO
[QUOTE=BCell;51385797]Donald Trump Already won presidency. What is there to say? [B]Majority of Americans wants him to be their president.[/B] If this is how they want democracy, let them have it and pray to god that Trump will not do something stupid like cutting off all ties with the European Union and leaving NATO[/QUOTE]
Are you incapable of reading
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51385804]Are you incapable of reading[/QUOTE]
Majority of Americans =/= majority of Americans that voted. Not that I agree with what BCell said, just wanted to point that out.
[QUOTE=dai;51383099]I saw someone do a graphic on Cali v Wyoming just a bit ago
[t]https://68.media.tumblr.com/6ba59b5675a7e5c107fe14454a939ac4/tumblr_ogri4tM20G1qc6jxfo1_1280.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Does it bother anyone else that the size comparison of the figures isn't to scale? They scaled by height rather than area.
[QUOTE=BCell;51385797]Donald Trump Already won presidency. What is there to say? Majority of Americans wants him to be their president. If this is how they want democracy, let them have it and pray to god that Trump will not do something stupid like cutting off all ties with the European Union and leaving NATO[/QUOTE]
[citation needed]
[QUOTE=Aathma;51386709]Does it bother anyone else that the size comparison of the figures isn't to scale? They scaled by height rather than area.[/QUOTE]
nerde
on topic: direct democracy is bad, but so is the current state of the EC. If every state had proportional delegation, and instant runoff like Maine just enacted, not only would 3rd parties have a chance, but everyone would actually have a voice no matter where they live, such as Texas Dems and Cali Repubs
Third parties wouldn't have a chance still. But it just means that you won't be scapegoated for voting third party anymore
[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;51387840]nerde
on topic: direct democracy is bad, but so is the current state of the EC. If every state had proportional delegation, and instant runoff like Maine just enacted, not only would 3rd parties have a chance, but everyone would actually have a voice no matter where they live, such as Texas Dems and Cali Repubs[/QUOTE]
But that's direct democracy?
Don't see what's so bad about direct democracy TBH.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51388246]People are gonna say now "BREXIT" forgetiing that this is an election and they most likely elect their representatives directly anyway. (Talking about USA. How do you elect your governors, House members?)[/QUOTE]
we elect just about anyone (in a position that needs electing) who isn't potus/vp directly.
[QUOTE=Pops;51388311]we elect just about anyone (in a position that needs electing) who isn't potus/vp directly.[/QUOTE]
Except the voting power depending on state is even more skewed than for the POTUS.
[QUOTE=Aathma;51386709]Does it bother anyone else that the size comparison of the figures isn't to scale? They scaled by height rather than area.[/QUOTE]
The red figure would not be able to fit on the image then.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51388246]People are gonna say now "BREXIT" forgetiing that this is an election and they most likely elect their representatives directly anyway. (Talking about USA. How do you elect your governors, House members?)[/QUOTE]
govenors are elected by the people just like how we do our presidential election, just on the state scale and no EC.
ok what state has these new numbers?
[QUOTE=bdd458;51381817]What needs to be done is not an abolishment of the electoral college, but rather the abolishmsnt of the winner takes all system within it. District the electors out.[/QUOTE]
It would really help if the number of electoral votes in each state matched the population, which it stopped doing over a hundred years ago.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51381626]Do this, and small states will stop voting because there will be no point in trying to beat California. I mean why would you vote in Nebraska if California = your state + 20 others combined? The Electoral College is flawed, but straight popular vote isn't any better.[/QUOTE]
Why wouldn't you vote? I really don't understand.
States don't vote homogenously. There is no state that has a 100% vote left or right. It's not a competition between California and your state. If you instated a direct voting system the presidency would be decided by every American across every state. What state you're from wouldn't matter. That's the point.
I just find it so ironic that that dumbass George Soros said "Donald Trump will win the popular vote, but he will not win the electoral vote"
[QUOTE=Kyklis;51385005]I really hope he addresses this at some point. The popular vote is irrelevant now and when he was complaining about it, because it's not and it wasn't how the president is chosen. I just want him to address that the system is flawed, and hopefully try to change it in a positive way.[/QUOTE]
You saw those Tweets from earlier right?
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/798521053551140864[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/798519600413601792[/media]
Again, compare the above to what he had to say in 2012:
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082[/media]
When he stands to benefit from a thing, then that thing is good. But if that thing works against him and his interests somehow, then it's bad.
He's not going to do shit to abolish or reform the electoral college, just as he's completely going back on his word to "drain the swamp" in his administration... conveniently packing it with careerist politicians/Washington insiders, loyalists, and his own family members. He's a hypocritical piece of human garbage.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;51381994]Winner-take-all pledges need to be thrown into the trash, hands down.
[editline]16th November 2016[/editline]
The electoral college is important for preventing something like the media from having a massive influence on something as important as the presidency. The electors themselves can stay as informed as can be, but it does open up a potential major corruption point. Electors shouldn't be allowed to be swayed as much as some are.[/QUOTE]
Do you actually beleive that? Considering how many states have laws against faithless electors I don't think anyone is expecting them or wanting them to use their own judgement when it comes time to vote.
And every single modern election is completely influenced by the media. That's how the voters get informed on the candidates. Both party's push smear campaigns in an attempt to sway the public one way or another. News stations have their own agendas. We're all affected it in some way.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
