Bitcoin's value halves overnight as China tightens restrictions on new deposits, most other cryptocu - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Grimhound;43225415]I wonder how long before cryptocurrencies are banned across the board under pyramid scheme laws.[/QUOTE] there's no reason to ban them, people speculate on their value and in this case got screwed. no different than the stock market

I'm annoyed by Bitcoin's success because the implementation is fucking shit. It's not even close to anonymous, which would be nice for a purely online currency.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;43224867]Viewing a safe investment as anything but a high risk investment is delusional due to the existence of black swans.[/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong (because I am not even trying to pass of as a knowledgeable investor), but while the situations leading to this drop in the value of bitcoin is unexpected, the drop in value is not so can it really be considered a black swan at this point? [editline]18th December 2013[/editline] Plus even the situation is not that unexpected, with China warning about use of bitcoins and banning transactions involving bitcoins quite explicitly a while ago.

[QUOTE=Fetret;43225755]Correct me if I'm wrong (because I am not even trying to pass of as a knowledgeable investor), but while the situations leading to this drop in the value of bitcoin is unexpected, the drop in value is not so can it really be considered a black swan at this point? [editline]18th December 2013[/editline] Plus even the situation is not that unexpected, with China warning about use of bitcoins and banning transactions involving bitcoins quite explicitly a while ago.[/QUOTE] Bitcoin drop wasn't because of a black swan. It was predictable that some government would start to legislate against it soon enough. I suppose that gave some people enough reason to panic sell, hence the current pricing which I'd consider more of a correction than anything. Value is still up from what it was prior to the third bubble. What I mean by Bitcoin itself being a black swan is - it could, itself, be an 'unexpected event' that comes from nowhere and breaks the current paradigm. It's continued expansion and growth point to this being the case.

[QUOTE=BaguetteThug;43223695]Top post of r/bitcoin is the suicide hotline number...[/QUOTE] Bwhaahah so fucking dumb that people seriously were saying this wasn't a bubble I got out when I did because it was so damn obvious it was a bubble How anyone could buy at over $1k and was not intending to play the market is seriously beyond me. This is exactly how the last bubble played out and I got nothing but BS from over-bullish people in the market who were in denial that the price could ever go below even $800 again. Sorry for your loss! And the best part is people are blaming china and saying it would have gone up forever if it wasn't for china. There is [I]always[/I] some kind of scapegoat for a bubble crash, when in reality it wouldn't have crashed unless the market was balancing on a knife's edge ready to crash but just needed something to push it over. Especially since the market was already in a bear market before the news about china broke, we saw a serious loss in value from the ATH in $1200's down into the $900 region where it kind of floated between there and $1050 for days, unable to find any real momentum to see it rise anymore. It was already going to crash soon. The China news just happened to be the wind that let the wobbly vase tip over. [editline]18th December 2013[/editline] That said people who bought at $266 in the last bubble are extraordinarily rich now if they didn't sell until past $1k. So if you did buy at the peak here, worst case just hold onto your coins and ride it out. In all likelyhood we'll AT LEAST see us meet the ATH again in the future, if not well exceed it like we did in this run. The only situation where this wouldn't happen is if serious government crackdown after government crackdown happens all around the world next year. In which case BTC might as well be in the dumps for a long while.

[QUOTE=KorJax;43225967]Bwhaahah so fucking dumb that people seriously were saying this wasn't a bubble I got out when I did because it was so damn obvious it was a bubble How anyone could buy at over $1k and was not intending to play the market is seriously beyond me. This is exactly how the last bubble played out and I got nothing but BS from over-bullish people in the market who were in denial that the price could ever go below even $800 again. Sorry for your loss! And the best part is people are blaming china and saying it would have gone up forever if it wasn't for china. There is [I]always[/I] some kind of scapegoat for a bubble crash, when in reality it wouldn't have crashed unless the market was balancing on a knife's edge ready to crash but just needed something to push it over. Especially since the market was already in a bear market before the news about china broke, we saw a serious loss in value from the ATH in $1200's down into the $900 region where it kind of floated between there and $1050 for days, unable to find any real momentum to see it rise anymore. It was already going to crash soon. The China news just happened to be the wind that let the wobbly vase tip over. [editline]18th December 2013[/editline] That said people who bought at $266 in the last bubble are extraordinarily rich now if they didn't sell until past $1k. So if you did buy at the peak here, worst case just hold onto your coins and ride it out. In all likelyhood we'll AT LEAST see us meet the ATH again in the future, if not well exceed it like we did in this run. The only situation where this wouldn't happen is if serious government crackdown after government crackdown happens all around the world next year. In which case BTC might as well be in the dumps for a long while.[/QUOTE] Well all this rollercoasting has tripled my initial investment so I'm happy.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;43223667][I]"For bitcoin to make it, it needs to be banned by a few governments and critiqued by policy makers. Otherwise it will fade." -Nassim Nicholas Taleb[/I][/QUOTE] [I]"bitcoins are stupid as hell" - Barttool[/I]

I think it's sort of funny because dogecoin looks like it's going up while all the other ones are going down.

I kept telling people bitcoin was going to crash like this when it was at 800-1100, but nobody listened. I bailed out while it was still worth something and more or less doubled my investment on it.

[QUOTE=Grimhound;43225415]I wonder how long before cryptocurrencies are banned across the board under pyramid scheme laws.[/QUOTE] Shame its not really a pyramid scheme and it'd be like trying to ban web torrenting [editline]18th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=nikomo;43225653]I'm annoyed by Bitcoin's success because the implementation is fucking shit. It's not even close to anonymous, which would be nice for a purely online currency.[/QUOTE] It wasn't designed to be anonymous, it just happens to be a benefit of it It can be extremely anonymous if you aren't stupid about it. If you generate new addresses every time you send/receieve money it'll be almost impossible for your identity to be revealed unless someone knows your address belongs to you.

I think the main de-valuer of bitcoin is the ease at which new crypto-currencies can be created. The open-source nature of the software means any young whippersnapper can download the code and make ridiculous shit like 'dogecoin'. As of yet I haven't seen a great degree of innovation in any of the alternative crypto-currencies. I've hedged into the few that I think have potential. I think the best is yet to come for crypto-currencies and I doubt we're looking at the best implementation just yet.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;43225938]Bitcoin drop wasn't because of a black swan. It was predictable that some government would start to legislate against it soon enough. I suppose that gave some people enough reason to panic sell, hence the current pricing which I'd consider more of a correction than anything. Value is still up from what it was prior to the third bubble. What I mean by Bitcoin itself being a black swan is - it could, itself, be an 'unexpected event' that comes from nowhere and breaks the current paradigm. It's continued expansion and growth point to this being the case.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind every bubble to date has had the price crash to just above the previous high, and stabilize somewhere near double it after a few months. This is part of the reason why Bitcoin is experiencing long term logrithmic growth at a pretty steady pace, it never drops lower than the previous high before a price rally begins. This is a crash, not a correction, but long term (year or two) I'm pretty confident that the market will remain bullish. Right now? Not at all. [editline]18th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SCopE5000;43226190]I think the main de-valuer of bitcoin is the ease at which new crypto-currencies can be created. The open-source nature of the software means any young whippersnapper can download the code and make ridiculous shit like 'dogecoin'. As of yet I haven't seen a great degree of innovation in any of the alternative crypto-currencies. I've hedged into the few that I think have potential. I think the best is yet to come for crypto-currencies and I doubt we're looking at the best implementation just yet.[/QUOTE] Bitcoin has the first mover advantage and the media only cares about bitcoin. Its a de-valuer right now but I don't think altcoins will have a serious effect on bitcoin's price in the long term. Espeically since most of the altcoins are only better in very small ways that don't really affect how bitcoin actually works, since they are all based off bitcoin.

I think one of the huge problems with bitcoin is that its not exactly regulated. Most currencies in use today are intensely regulated by modern states who have been competing against financial speculators in a continual race. Bitcoin essentially removes those financial protections, while existing in a system where financial attacks have evolved to work against regulation. In other words, it's completely defenseless to the misdeeds of the merchants who have spent the past 4000 years working out how to play the markets for their own gain. [url]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3787375[/url] [quote]Bitcoin takes the monetary system back essentially a hundred years. We know how to beat that system. In fact, we know how to nuke it for profit. Bitcoin is volatile, inherently deflationary and has no lender of last resort. Cornering and squeezing would work well - they use mass in a finite trading space. Modern predatory algos like bandsaw (testing markets by raising and suddenly dropping prices), sharktooth (electronically front-running orders), and band-burst (creating self-perpetuating volatile equilibria in a leverage-sensitive trading space, e.g. an inherently deflationary one), would rapidly wreak havoc. There is also a part of me that figures regulators will turn a blind eye to Bitcoin shenanigans.[/quote]

Well time to go collect my victory money from my brother after he insisted that bitcoin was flawless and that it wouldn't see a large drop anytime soon again.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shxiy7l5b_4[/media]

[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;43226095]I think it's sort of funny because dogecoin looks like it's going up while all the other ones are going down.[/QUOTE] That's because it was pretty much worthless to begin with [img]http://i.imgur.com/J2LPcHy.png[/img] Notice how the graph is basically a flat line

to the moon guys!

Just more evidence to show that bitcoin is not a real currency.

It does not take much brainpower to figure out that a currency backed by nothing and without regulation is ridiculously easy to manipulate. Gullible sheep falling for a simple ponzi scheme.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43226380]I think one of the huge problems with bitcoin is that its not exactly regulated. Most currencies in use today are intensely regulated by modern states who have been competing against financial speculators in a continual race. Bitcoin essentially removes those financial protections, while existing in a system where financial attacks have evolved to work against regulation.[/QUOTE] A regulatory body that is 18 trillion dollars in debt (and rising). [QUOTE=Sobotnik;43226380]In other words, it's completely defenseless to the misdeeds of the merchants who have spent the past 4000 years working out how to play the markets for their own gain. [/QUOTE] Whatever is made will be exploited/played. Intervening with people doing so is more problematic in the long run. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;43226380]Bitcoin takes the monetary system back essentially a hundred years. We know how to beat that system. In fact, we know how to nuke it for profit.[/QUOTE] Great. At least this way it can never become 'too big to fail'. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;43226380]Bitcoin is volatile, inherently deflationary and has no lender of last resort.[/QUOTE] [I]'Lender of last resort'[/I] is codename for bailing out those who spent irresponsibly, with money that simply doesn't exist. [QUOTE=Sobotnik;43226380]Cornering and squeezing would work well - they use mass in a finite trading space. Modern predatory algos like bandsaw (testing markets by raising and suddenly dropping prices), sharktooth (electronically front-running orders), and band-burst (creating self-perpetuating volatile equilibria in a leverage-sensitive trading space, e.g. an inherently deflationary one), would rapidly wreak havoc. There is also a part of me that figures regulators will turn a blind eye to Bitcoin shenanigans.[/QUOTE] And preventing any of this would be more irresponsible interventionism.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;43226835]A regulatory body that is 18 trillion dollars in debt (and rising).[/quote] lol [quote]Whatever is made will be exploited/played. Intervening with people doing so is more problematic in the long run.[/quote] laissez faire economics doesn't work we've known this for the best part of a century [quote]Great. At least this way it can never become 'too big to fail'.[/quote] i'd prefer to be paid wages that dont have their value fluctuate every day by as much as 50% face it, most normal people out there want wages that are at least stable, and that the money also doesn't accumulate value over time [quote][I]'Lender of last resort'[/I] is codename for bailing out those who spent irresponsibly, with money that simply doesn't exist.[/quote] define what makes money real I think bitcoins and dollars are real, but i prefer one as a store of value [quote]And preventing any of this would be more irresponsible interventionism.[/QUOTE] until people started regulating markets, huge and painful crashes happened every few years and were leagues worse than anything we have today [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873[/url]

[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;43226095]I think it's sort of funny because dogecoin looks like it's going up while all the other ones are going down.[/QUOTE] "I lost a ton of [potential/invested] money and have to make it back up to break even and that website yesterday was reporting that doge was becoming popular so i better buy in now"

breaking news: kid converts all of his family's money into bitcoins, attempts to commit suicide

[img]http://i.imgur.com/DKyAInV.png[/img]

I still haven't made a full dollar yet. Then again I haven't lost anything at all yet, I'm good.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;43227124]While Bitcoin itself is probably going to crash and burn due to how people are using it, I wonder if the actual concept behind it holds any merit. Would it ever be possible to create a (stable) global, decentralized currency?[/QUOTE] Digital gold which is regulated by a single central bank.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;43227124]While Bitcoin itself is probably going to crash and burn due to how people are using it, I wonder if the actual concept behind it holds any merit. Would it ever be possible to create a (stable) global, decentralized currency?[/QUOTE] Decentralized, no, but the rest is perfectly feasible.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;43227124]While Bitcoin itself is probably going to crash and burn due to how people are using it, I wonder if the actual concept behind it holds any merit. Would it ever be possible to create a (stable) global, decentralized currency?[/QUOTE] btc isn't decentralized. it's centralized by the programs and algorithms used to generate them and make transactions. [editline]18th December 2013[/editline] just because btc is a shitty currency doesn't mean that you can't have a similar concept, tweak it some, and have a cryptocurrency that has some level of stability while also being anonymous and non-government.

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;43227208]I mean if you're going to create something like this there has to be a need for it in the first place. Kind of wondering how different things would be if it were more wide spread amongst retailers (in the most hypothetical, ideal situation possible).[/QUOTE] That's one of the big problems with it. For a big company who has loads of workers, spends a lot of money on buying goods, allocating them, paying wages, paying taxes, etc, then what advantage does the bitcoin afford to them? Is it superior for receiving payments in? Is it superior for buying goods and paying wages with? Is it accepted for taxation purposes? Bitcoin might have a slightly better chance if governments solely used it for taxation, but even then, if you had a sudden spike in prices, you will find that the government cannot easily produce more funds to cover the sudden shortfall in order to pay all the necessary civil servants and workers. And if a state suddenly goes belly up and effectively becomes bankrupt, that's bad bad bad news for the residents of the country.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;43227258]That's one of the big problems with it. For a big company who has loads of workers, spends a lot of money on buying goods, allocating them, paying wages, paying taxes, etc, then what advantage does the bitcoin afford to them? Is it superior for receiving payments in? Is it superior for buying goods and paying wages with? Is it accepted for taxation purposes? Bitcoin might have a slightly better chance if governments solely used it for taxation, but even then, if you had a sudden spike in prices, you will find that the government cannot easily produce more funds to cover the sudden shortfall in order to pay all the necessary civil servants and workers. And if a state suddenly goes belly up and effectively becomes bankrupt, that's bad bad bad news for the residents of the country.[/QUOTE] i prefer btc as a means of buying things the government doesn't want you to buy. idc about btc as anything more than an "illegal" currency tbh. as an anti-authoritarian btc provides a useful function even though it's a completely shoddy currency.