• Vengeance for Eric Garner? Two New York officers shot.
    154 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46759223]This thread is about two cops who got murdered for no reason other than being cops, not Garner.[/QUOTE] Well, the article does state that they were killed as a misguided way of getting vengeance for Garner, so it is at least marginally related to him. I won't mention Garner anymore, though - what this guy did was disgusting, misguided, and missed the point of the publicity of Garner's death. It's the same as the people who used the events at Ferguson as an excuse to act violently and riot. Violence doesn't solve these types of issues - if anything, it worsens them.
cool thread
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46759223]This thread is about two cops who got murdered for no reason other than being cops, not Garner.[/QUOTE] As much as I rather not jump on the ~pig hate~ wagon, the guys primary motive was out of revenge for Garner and Brown. It's relevant enough to talk about as long as the whole two cops dying thing doesn't get ignored yknow.
[QUOTE=Flameon;46759204]Get over this cop killer and stop, thanks.[/QUOTE]In your previous post you tried to rationalize random killing because "Ehh, maybe you'll get some bad people with the good ones too."
what discussion could even generate from this thread? if we stay on topic, its gonna be an echo chamber of people condemning the killer and a couple people looking for boxes to put their christmas presents in. last reference to garner: the fact that his murder (caught on camera) can generate pages of debate while this thread may be lucky to reach 2 pages says more than I even need to. [editline]20th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46759274]In your previous post you tried to rationalize random killing because "Ehh, maybe you'll get some bad people with the good ones too."[/QUOTE] i dont agree with the sentiment, I just posted it because I found it powerful.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46759223]This thread is about two cops who got murdered for no reason other than being cops, not Garner.[/QUOTE] Is this thread some sort of vacuum where suddenly the context of just why these cops were killed becomes irrelevant. I mean the instragram post straight up mentions Garner's name, and there is only so many times we can call this guy an idiot before trying to discuss his motives crime ya know? Garner and these cops dieing are pretty closely related (if that really is the instagram of the killer) and seriously paints a bigger picture of how serious this whole situation is going to become. People are ready to kill over it.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;46759247]Well, the article does state that they were killed as a misguided way of getting vengeance for Garner, so it is at least marginally related to him. I won't mention Garner anymore, though - what this guy did was disgusting, misguided, and missed the point of the publicity of Garner's death. It's the same as the people who used the events at Ferguson as an excuse to act violently and riot. Violence doesn't solve these types of issues - if anything, it worsens them.[/QUOTE] Thank you and I agree. [QUOTE=Mr. N;46759273]As much as I rather not jump on the ~pig hate~ wagon, the guys primary motive was out of revenge for Garner and Brown. It's relevant enough to talk about as long as the whole two cops dying thing doesn't get ignored yknow.[/QUOTE] I can agree with this also, my whole thing is quit talking about how Garner was choked out or the circumstances surround why, since we've already done that, and focus on what's happening now. Hopefully everyone takes a step back on a national level with this realize two wrongs won't make a right and violence is not the way to get the change you want.
[QUOTE=Winters;46759292] People are ready to kill over it.[/QUOTE] No they're not, some of them are just nuts.
[QUOTE=Flameon;46759287]i dont agree with the sentiment, I just posted it because I found it powerful.[/QUOTE]And yet you say there is wisdom in it.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46759313]And yet you say there is wisdom in it.[/QUOTE] The wisdom in it is that if peaceful solutions really are the answer, then we need to start presenting them - that its horrible when innocents die, but innocents are dying now and we shouldn't become complacent and make their deaths routine.
[QUOTE=usaokay;46759328]He knew he was going to die, thus meaning he was willing to give and take a life for some generalized reason. Motherfucker.[/QUOTE] Most probably dreamed of killing some pigs for a long time, now he had an excuse to go trough with it.
[QUOTE=Flameon;46759346]The wisdom in it is that if peaceful solutions really are the answer, then we need to start presenting them - that its horrible when innocents die, but innocents are dying now and we shouldn't become complacent and make their deaths routine.[/QUOTE] The problem is, this same scenario has been played out for decades in the US and I realistically don't see any way to make it so 100% of the population is non violent. One thing that I believe is a huge part of the problem is the home environment many of these people come from. I guess it goes hand in hand with the idea that better off kids do better in school due to the resources they have available. I'm curious to know if anyone talked to this guy after he made is manic post on killing people, talking him down and empathizing with his feelings may have saved all their lives. [editline]20th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;46759360]Most probably dreamed of killing some pigs for a long time, now he had an excuse to go trough with it.[/QUOTE] Even if this was the case, I believe if anyone talked to him before he left that building, he and the two officers would be alive right now.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46759053]The shooter's last instagram post [t]https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10881715_618835341554615_3113244679284695671_n.jpg?oh=6ed577f3825b5e2fdbfb51a7e09dde0e&oe=553911CB&__gda__=1429689459_12d32f7e46fac9a5b8ee8307d5dc43f2[/t] Shooter has been shot and killed and the two officers have since died.[/QUOTE] i feel sorry for this guy. he just didn't have his mind right.
[QUOTE=Flameon;46759346]The wisdom in it is that if peaceful solutions really are the answer, then we need to start presenting them - that its horrible when innocents die, but innocents are dying now and we shouldn't become complacent and make their deaths routine.[/QUOTE]That literally isn't in the lines you posted at all. The lines literally just provide the reason for vengeance, and to be indiscriminate about who it is inflicted upon.
[QUOTE=Fort83;46759500]The guy should have just killed himself instead of the two cops. Nothing of value would have been lost.[/QUOTE] oh fuck off with that, he's still a human being. no one deserves death. although i understand that not many people agree with that.
[QUOTE=Rediscover;46759507]oh fuck off with that, he's still a human being. no one deserves death. although i understand that not many people agree with that.[/QUOTE] Not even people who gun down innocents for their own twisted moral reasons? Wish I was in the happy place you are in.
nobody deserves death. that's just my personal philosophy. locked up away from anybody they could hurt for the rest of their life? definitely. i just can't be okay with the government killing anyone as punishment. it's wrong.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46759411]The problem is, this same scenario has been played out for decades in the US and I realistically don't see any way to make it so 100% of the population is non violent. One thing that I believe is a huge part of the problem is the home environment many of these people come from. I guess it goes hand in hand with the idea that better off kids do better in school due to the resources they have available. I'm curious to know if anyone talked to this guy after he made is manic post on killing people, talking him down and empathizing with his feelings may have saved all their lives. [/QUOTE] I agree that it is part of the environment which drives people to do these things, and part of their environment is a public which doesnt *really* care when police officers kill black folk. That is gonna drive people to do shit in that desperation - take :justice: into their own demented hands when the system doesn't offer them justice. This dude needs to answer for what he did, even when our environments determine what we do we still accountable for what we did, but maybe, and this is pointing to how Garner and these killings are related, the lesson we need to take is a renewed commitment to social justice to prevent things like these revenge killings from happening in the first place.
i just don't get the vengeful thirst for blood when i hear about these shooters and murderers. they're still people, even if they're fucked up hateful people. i know it's silly, i just can't help but to feel that way.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46759506]That literally isn't in the lines you posted at all. The lines literally just provide the reason for vengeance, and to be indiscriminate about who it is inflicted upon.[/QUOTE] You can check out the whole song if you'd like, "Close your Eyes (and count to fuck)" by Run the Jewels.
i wish we could actually look at the issues and environments that would cause something like this to happen rather than waste time with dehumanizing & revenge fantasies
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46759583]i wish we could actually look at the issues and environments that would cause something like this to happen rather than waste time with dehumanizing & revenge fantasies[/QUOTE] thank you. this guy is just a product of his environment. in his mind he was doing the right thing. obviously, he was delusional, but it wasn't entirely his fault. he grew up in an environment that encouraged that type of thinking.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;46759139]I hope the shooter lived long enough to regret his decision as he bled out on the floor of a dirty NY subway. The officers likely had family, nobody deserves to have family killed, especially with the holidays right at our doorstep.[/QUOTE] Pretty amazing doublethink for you to simultaneously regret the loss of two lives while cherishing the loss of another. This is the effect of the media always telling these stories as though there are good guys (the victim(s)) and bad guys (the perpetrator(s)). When human life is taken, there are only victims. It might grate against your vengeance-prone outlook on life to hear that, but it's true. No one arrives at the conclusion that they are going to murder another person on their own. Their environment makes them into that murderer. People are not born killers. [editline]20th December 2014[/editline] Wow I posted something that it turns out a bunch of people posted before me. Y'all give me hope.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46759583]i wish we could actually look at the issues and environments that would cause something like this to happen rather than waste time with dehumanizing & revenge fantasies[/QUOTE] Yes but that would require actual effort and tough questions to be asked.
When the justice system fails to punish those who are guilty, this is what it leads too. People take matters into their own hands. When will the day come that police aren't protected by the judges? Why can't we have a court-marshal system that is effective like the military?
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;46759627]Yes but that would require actual effort and tough questions to be asked.[/QUOTE] and people wouldn't get to indulge in their revenge fantasies. we need our revenge fantasies
[QUOTE=hrak;46759603]Pretty amazing doublethink for you to simultaneously regret the loss of two lives while cherishing the loss of another. This is the effect of the media always telling these stories as though there are good guys (the victim(s)) and bad guys (the perpetrator(s)). When human life is taken, there are only victims. It might grate against your vengeance-prone outlook on life to hear that, but it's true. No one arrives at the conclusion that they are going to murder another person on their own. Their environment makes them into that murderer. People are not born killers. [/QUOTE]If that's the case then how come great people have come out of shit environments and horrible monsters out of supposedly good ones? It's more than environments. As far as victims go, the very moment you take innocent lives in cold blood, you stop being a victim. You can blame environments or parents or whatever you want, but in the end he took the gun and he shot two people. I do not support death sentences but I don't feel bad that the bastard died.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;46759655]If that's the case then how come great people have come out of shit environments and horrible monsters out of supposedly good ones? It's more than environments. As far as victims go, the very moment you take innocent lives in cold blood, you stop being a victim. You can blame environments or parents or whatever you want, but in the end he took the gun and he shot two people. I do not support death sentences but I don't feel bad that the bastard died.[/QUOTE] because everyone has a different brain and not everyone develops the same way. it's not black and white, man
[QUOTE=Rediscover;46759661]because everyone has a different brain and not everyone develops the same way. it's not black and white, man[/QUOTE] Does that mean I should feel bad about him because his brain was different? He took two innocent lives, fuck that guy. There's nothing victim about him.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;46759655]If that's the case then how come great people have come out of shit environments and horrible monsters out of supposedly good ones? It's more than environments.[/QUOTE] What else is it? Are people making conscious decisions to become deranged killers? Clearly not. [editline]20th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=itisjuly;46759675]Does that mean I should feel bad about him because his brain was different? He took two innocent lives, fuck that guy. There's nothing victim about him.[/QUOTE] He killed two people. That's awful. He, through a series of circumstances none of us can understand, became a killer, and himself died. That's awful. One does not invalidate the other.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.