Vengeance for Eric Garner? Two New York officers shot.
154 replies, posted
[QUOTE=hrak;46759678]What else is it? Are people making conscious decisions to become deranged killers? Clearly not.
[/QUOTE] Getting a gun, pointing it at someone and shooting is rather conscious, not to mention his twitter post, showing clear intent and conscious decisionmaking.
[QUOTE=hrak;46759678]
He killed two people. That's awful. He, through a series of circumstances none of us can understand, became a killer, and himself died. That's awful. One does not invalidate the other.[/QUOTE]
It's awful that he became a killer because he killed people.
Yeah great.
I'm going to NYC soon, and I'm really looking forward to the gunfights on Times Square between cops and idiots/gangmembers.
Why don't we use out critical thinking skills here and look into [B]why[/B] this shit happened. A cop choked a man to death, and literally nothing happened. The only thing that did happen was that the camera man was charged of a crime.
The justice system is broken. Police get away with more than they should be.
[editline]20th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pr0fane;46759724]Yeah great.
I'm going to NYC soon, and I'm really looking forward to the gunfights on Times Square between cops and idiots/gangmembers.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck do you think this is? The wild west?
It was an isolated incident done by one person.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;46759708]Getting a gun, pointing it at someone and shooting is rather conscious, not to mention his twitter post, showing clear intent and conscious decisionmaking.
It's awful that he became a killer because he killed people.[/QUOTE]
you're not really getting it.
[editline]20th December 2014[/editline]
nobody said he was crazy or not aware of what he was doing.
Did no one read the article? It's pretty obvious he was a fucking nut that used it as an excuse. He also killed his girlfriend before leaving Baltimore. The deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner are irrelevant because he used it as baseless justification to kill himself and hurt three other people.
He would have hurt anyone for some reason eventually if Michael Brown and Eric Garner never died.
[QUOTE=Fort83;46759526]This selfish piece of shit decided to take the lives of two cops for no reason. He clearly had a death wish, he should have took his own life instead. The lives of the cops were worth more than this scum.[/QUOTE]
So edgy. If the US didn't have such a pitiful mental health system, this could have been prevented.
[QUOTE=TG2;46759788]Did no one read the article? It's pretty obvious he was a fucking nut that used it as an excuse. He also killed his girlfriend before leaving Baltimore. The deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner are irrelevant because he used it as baseless justification to kill himself and hurt three other people.
He would have hurt anyone for some reason eventually if Michael Brown and Eric Garner never died.[/QUOTE]
This monster is a victim
[QUOTE=itisjuly;46759795]This monster is a victim[/QUOTE]
At what point exactly are you saying he made this choice? When he picked up the gun and went to go kill the peeps, right?
But hmm - turns out he made that choice based on a lifetime of experiences he had no control over. Or, uh - well, you can say he made decisions in the past, too, except that those decisions were similarly informed by past occurrences. Now things get muddy. When did he make the choice? In fact, when did anyone make any choice?
The fact is that people cannot be 'responsible' for things in the way that it's popularly portrayed. The whole idea of responsibility is a social fabrication to get people to act the right way. I guess you can call the dehumanization of killers one of these social fabrications. Maybe it serves a purpose - maybe folks who might be prone to kill will abstain from killing, not wanting to be remembered as inhuman. But maybe a better effect could be reached by, as a society, understanding the problems creating these killers and working to solve them.
[QUOTE=Fort83;46759882]So edgy. The US having a decent mental health system wouldn't guarantee this wouldn't happen.[/QUOTE]
He's not saying definitely, just that it 'could have been' prevented. It's not an untrue statement. A lot of mentally unstable people who later became killers could've been dealt with much better. You wouldn't believe how expensive it is to get treatment for mental issues in the USA. It's even worse than physical health problems.
[QUOTE=xxncxx;46759791]So edgy. If the US didn't have such a pitiful mental health system, this could have been prevented.[/QUOTE]
no health system could have prevented this. This man was not mentally ill. He knew what he was doing and was glad he was doing it. You can argue it all you want, but this man consciously knew the rights, wrongs, and punishment for his actions.
[QUOTE=hrak;46759832]At what point exactly are you saying he made this choice? When he picked up the gun and went to go kill the peeps, right?
But hmm - turns out he made that choice based on a lifetime of experiences he had no control over. Or, uh - well, you can say he made decisions in the past, too, except that those decisions were similarly informed by past occurrences. Now things get muddy. When did he make the choice? In fact, when did anyone make any choice?[/QUOTE]At the end of the day, we actually do, legitimately, have decision making capabilities. Prior circumstances will influence, but do not determine. The universe is not deterministic, no actions are preplanned on every level from start to finish.
I really hate people who try to excuse wrong doing by route of a deterministic universe.
[QUOTE=Fort83;46759882]So edgy. The US having a decent mental health system wouldn't guarantee this wouldn't happen.[/QUOTE]
Glad to see you can read. Also please explain how I was being edgy by calling you out on being edgy by advocating suicide.
[editline]20th December 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46759916]no health system could have prevented this. This man was not mentally ill. He knew what he was doing and was glad he was doing it. You can argue it all you want, but this man consciously knew the rights, wrongs, and punishment for his actions.[/QUOTE]
I'm fairly sure that anyone can tell you this guy wasn't right in the head. Attempting to commit suicide by cop and ultimately shooting yourself in the head is not something someone mentally healthy would do. And I wouldn't put it past these same posters to flip their view the moment a white person does this, to be perfectly honest.
[QUOTE=Fort83;46759949]This guy knew what he was doing, he wanted to do it and knew the outcome. He wasn't doing it because some voices in his head told him to, he made the decision to do it. So no it probably still wouldn't have prevented it.[/QUOTE]
You clearly don't know much about how mental illness works judging by how you likened the term mental illness to psychosis symptoms.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46759937]Prior circumstances will influence, but do not determine.[/QUOTE]
What, aside from prior experiences, do people make decisions based on?
[quote=Doctor Zedacon] The universe is not deterministic, no actions are preplanned on every level from start to finish.[/quote]
1) It is not yet known if this is true. There is debate over whether or not the coordinates of electrons are truly random. It is presumed they are.
2) Even if the universe is not determined humans are still not responsible for their actions. The only way the universe can be undetermined is if there is some truly random agent, like a random electron. But this doesn't suddenly grant humans agency. Since humans cannot predict the outcome of a truly random force, they cannot affect their future any more than in the case of a determined universe. They are at the whims of those random electrons.
[QUOTE=hrak;46759977]What, aside from prior experiences, do people make decisions based on?[/QUOTE]That provides much of the base for it, but is not the whole picture. The circumstances around us at the time also influence, as well as the unknowable changes that can intervene and thereby influence.
[QUOTE]2) Even if the universe is not determined humans are still not responsible for their actions. The only way the universe can be undetermined is if there is some truly random agent, like a random electron. But this doesn't suddenly grant humans agency. Since humans cannot predict the outcome of a truly random force, they cannot affect their future any more than in the case of a determined universe. They are at the whims of those random electrons.[/QUOTE]Humans are by all means responsible for their actions. We barely understand the complexity of human thought processes, what makes us act how we do, but we can say that it is not preplanned in any form, there is no algorithm that determines how to act. Knowing all possible details and outcomes is not necessary for autonomy. Again, these things can only influence, but they do not directly control.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;46760035]The circumstances around us at the time also influence, as well as the unknowable changes that can intervene and thereby influence.
[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that what's happening to you at the very present is within your control, even as you admit that what's happened in the past isn't? You understand there's a very narrow definition of what constitutes 'the present'? When you submit a cause to the world, the output effect is happening in response to stimuli that are already in the past.
I'm not gonna continue this argument because it's turning into an annoying thing that detracts from the subject of the article, but you guys should try entertaining the thought that people don't make decisions on their own. Everything that's happened to them leads up to those decisions, and those happenings were not within their control.
Cop lives matter
[QUOTE=hrak;46760047]Looks like you never finished this thought and put it on hold, moving down to the next part of the post. I wonder why.[/QUOTE]I wrote something, then decided to redo it. I switched to the other part briefly, and mistakenly thought I had finished it.
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;46760051]Cop lives matter[/QUOTE]
More than a deadbeat thug that kills random people because of some stupid trivial bullshit going on.
So how long now after this incident until the police kill another unarmed black guy?
[QUOTE=Covalent;46760065]More than a deadbeat thug that kills random people because of some stupid trivial bullshit going on.[/QUOTE]
How do you seriously and consistently make posts like this?
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46759916]no health system could have prevented this. This man was not mentally ill. He knew what he was doing and was glad he was doing it. You can argue it all you want, but this man consciously knew the rights, wrongs, and punishment for his actions.[/QUOTE]
i find it very hard to believe that a sane person kills his girlfriend then kills 2 cops knowing that he will be killed too
[QUOTE=Fort83;46760140]I was showing you how childish it is to use the "so edgy" thing. Are you about done being now?
And people get upset when they see the police getting more armoured vehicles and gear.[/QUOTE]
And somehow suggesting suicide is okay for situations like these is not childish and edgy?
[editline]20th December 2014[/editline]
Do you read what you post or do you just shit on your keyboard?
[QUOTE=Fort83;46760236]I see being childish is all you can do. Have fun with that.
Was there any other injuries besides the two cops, the girlfriend and the guy?[/QUOTE]
I see you like dismissing my argument because you can't rebut. Have fun with that.
[QUOTE=Fort83;46760236]I see being childish is all you can do. Have fun with that.[/QUOTE]
Dude, just answer his question.
[QUOTE=Covalent;46760065]More than a deadbeat thug that kills random people because of some stupid trivial bullshit going on.[/QUOTE]
all lives matter equally.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;46760122]i find it very hard to believe that a sane person kills his girlfriend then kills 2 cops knowing that he will be killed too[/QUOTE]
Saying "no mental health system" could've prevented this is kind of a dumb thing to say. However in his instagram post that "this may be my final post" insinuating he knew he might die.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;46760556]Saying "no mental health system" could've prevented this is kind of a dumb thing to say. However in his instagram post that "this may be my final post" insinuating he knew he might die.[/QUOTE]
yeah i know, i'm saying that he knew he was gonna be killed and he shot 2 cops and killed his girlfriend. none of these sound like the acts of a sane person to me
Here's my question. What the fuck were his friends/followers thinking when he posted very obviously suicidal shit? Nobody thought to call him or send him a message?
Saw this on Reddit:
[QUOTE]I'm not a regular poster here but I work a few precincts over in Brooklyn. Perp likely killed his girlfriend in Baltimore then came down here and murdered both MOS. Perp shot himself while fleeing in train station. Both officers were assigned to the 84 pct but were doing CRV in the 79, which is bed stuy. Still working on name of perp. Just talkin to my Sgt and he said there hasn't been an ambush on an MOS like this in NYC since the 70s. RIP PO LIU AND PO RAMOS. You will never be forgotten.[/QUOTE]