• All new upcoming CPUs to officially support only Windows 10
    187 replies, posted
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50994999]But I bet they'll run Linux just fine. :pcrepair:[/QUOTE] ... Yes? What is even the point of this post?
[QUOTE=Demache;50996758]Fuck no. Windows Update in 7 is sweet garbage. Selecting updates is literally its ONLY positive. It breaks at the drop of a hat and starts to install the same update over and over if it even gets that far. Not to mention ludicrous resource use (I'm checking for updates, I'll use 600 MB of RAM and one of your cores for the next hour). I've deleted "SoftwareDistribution" in hopes to correct bad updates more than I can count. I've done entire system images at work because Windows Update breaks for no reason. No thanks. Say what you want about 10 update, at least Windows Update works. But in all fairness it worked in 8 too so there's that.[/QUOTE] I actually just had to fix Windows update in 10 because it kept trying and failing to do updates on every startup and shutoff :v: It's still broken but at least it stopped trying every time I turned on my computer. [editline]3rd September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fox Powers;50996976]Am I the only one not affected by this? I've never gotten this kind of shit, most updates DO install while I'm using it but thankfully always happen when I'm not really doing anything, so I just restart[/QUOTE] It happens rarely enough and depends enough on your computing habits that it doesn't happen to everyone, or only happens very rarely. Like I said earlier it's only happened to me twice in the nearly two years I've had 10, but both times were during overnight 3D prints, which cost a lot of time and money. That was enough for me to finally start moving my workflow entirely over to Linux. [editline]3rd September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50997092]You can't get DX12. Because there's so many people who can't get DX12, and refuse to upgrade to 10, DX12 isn't being pushed into as many games meaning we're not getting the widespread adoption of a significantly better API to be working with so yeah, you may not think you're holding anything up, dr evilcorp may not think that, but, you are.[/QUOTE] Windows 8 still has mainstream support until 2018 and, to my knowledge, there is no technical reason why DX12 can't work on 8. Blame Microsoft for arbitrarily deciding DX12 is only allowed on Windows 10. Also, I'm already on Windows 10, but no I don't give a shit if your games get slightly worse performance. Furthermore, let's not forget that devs are [I]always[/I] slow to adopt new DirectX versions. Produce evidence that devs are avoiding DX12 because of a lack of Windows 7/8 support before making your claim.
[QUOTE=SleepyAl;50997165]Is there any specific technical reason why these CPUs won't work with older Windows other than "we chose not to let it"?[/QUOTE] Certain changes in CPU architecture require work to implement. Windows 7 RTM doesn't support Intel's AVX instruction set extensions for example, but SP1 does. (Changes had to be made to the kernel to allow for saving/restoring the state of the new 256-bit wide YMM vector registers) So if you want to do something with AVX-512 in the future, or some other CPU feature requiring software-side implementation - you're going to have to use 10.
[QUOTE=meppers;50994997]honestly i've just given up on people that won't move on past 7[/QUOTE] I and others have no real reason to move to Windows 10. I can still play all the games I want to on 7 just perfectly. The only reason to really to windows 10 is features. Of which I don't need. And honestly I don't understand why your making a smart ass remark when your os icon is Mac.
It's "official" support. Or in other words "you can't come to us for technical support if you're using it like that". I seriously doubt that older Windows won't work on the newer CPUs. That'd take some [I]serious[/I] fuckery with basic x86 functionality. A platform where the only non-backwards compatible change made in its entire existence was the introduction of protected mode [I]34 years ago[/I] in 1982.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50997092]You can't get DX12. Because there's so many people who can't get DX12, and refuse to upgrade to 10, DX12 isn't being pushed into as many games meaning we're not getting the widespread adoption of a significantly better API to be working with so yeah, you may not think you're holding anything up, dr evilcorp may not think that, but, you are.[/QUOTE] Vulkan works on windows 7, btw. So that's one other solution developers can turn to so that they don't have to worry about 7/8 users in their playerbase, don't use directx12, use vulkan.
[QUOTE=MissZoey;50997068]None of these mean anything to most users, and on that list I cannot find a single feature that is desirable enough to make me change my OS. I'd upgrade if there was some mega serious issue with Windows 7, but like many, I'm happy with what I have. Most of those features seem technical and specified, and I don't do anything that would require them, many people are the same. Point being, a lot of non-upgraders aren't not-upgrading because they hate ten, but because they are happy with what they have in seven.[/QUOTE] I kind of understand that many of the new features aren't meaningful to people who aren't tech-savvy, but tell me, what [I]would[/I] be a single feature that is desirable enough to make you change OSes? You get a lot of these technical improvements because the core Windows experience is probably as best as it can be- save for the entire updating shenanigans. I'm not sure what else you would want in Windows that isn't already there if you're not tech-savvy.
[QUOTE=Demache;50997055]It literally depends on your computing habits. If your like me, and are very consistent (like not staying up late), shut your PC off regularly, and don't leave it on overnight, you'll never get this. If you leave your PC on all time, its much more likely. It waits 3 days for you to reboot, but if you never reboot...that happens. Nothing I do requires my workstation to stay on a week straight, so it doesn't. And when I do leave it on, its 3:00 AM on Wednesday on the dot.[/QUOTE] I do all of the bad habits above and I've never had an update happen while I'm on it.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50995500]I've already explained why Windows 10 does not work for me above. Many others take similar issues with it. I did not say it was a universal constant; if Win10 works for you, then you are more than free to use it. Acting like your situation applies to everybody is naïve [I]at best[/I].[/QUOTE] If you're a 'power user' who can't do something in Windows 10 I hate to break it to you buddy but you're not an honest to god power user. I hate to go all 'no true Scotsman' here but seriously this complaint is like all I hear people say and having been through pretty much every Windows iteration since 95 extensively I can safely say that Windows 10 is practically a modern XP when it comes to user controls. You're allowed to have your opinions, but don't get grumpy when people point out you've got water under your feet.
[QUOTE=duckmaster;50998173]I do all of the bad habits above and I've never had an update happen while I'm on it.[/QUOTE] Most thats happened to me is it says, "YOU NEED THESE UPDATES FUCKER" [editline]4th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=daigennki;50996872]Because it interrupts whatever you are doing unexpectedly, duh. [video=youtube;eP31lluUDWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP31lluUDWU[/video][/QUOTE] Its never actually done that for me, its always warned me first. And I don't think thats purely anecdotal. I'm assuming he didn't stream from that computer as well and streamed through HDMI because otherwise the stream would have just ended.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50998220]Most thats happened to me is it says, "YOU NEED THESE UPDATES FUCKER" [editline]4th September 2016[/editline] Its never actually done that for me, its always warned me first. And I don't think thats purely anecdotal. I'm assuming he didn't stream from that computer as well and streamed through HDMI because otherwise the stream would have just ended.[/QUOTE] The notifications can be hidden by full screen applications, which is almost certainly what happened there. [editline]4th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=No Party Hats;50998176]If you're a 'power user' who can't do something in Windows 10 I hate to break it to you buddy but you're not an honest to god power user. I hate to go all 'no true Scotsman' here but seriously this complaint is like all I hear people say and having been through pretty much every Windows iteration since 95 extensively I can safely say that Windows 10 is practically a modern XP when it comes to user controls. You're allowed to have your opinions, but don't get grumpy when people point out you've got water under your feet.[/QUOTE] If we're talking about my workflow, I can do anything on Windows 10; it isn't a problem. If we're talking about mitigating Windows 10's terrible design choices, then I'm using the word "can't" loosely here. I [I]could[/I] download/buy Enterprise and fuck with group policy settings and fix it, but why bother doing that when I'm now happily getting all my work done in Arch Linux? More efficiently, too. For other people, why bother upgrading to 10 when they don't need 10's new features, and 10 has all these annoying nannying issues? People seem to forget that, again, your operating system is a [B]tool[/B]. If the tool works, why trade it in for a tool that's more annoying to use? It doesn't make sense. Some people, including the average consumer, are going to use the new features of Windows 10 and probably won't be bothered by the nannying. That's totally fine. But all of you in this thread in such hard denial about somebody having a legitimate reason not to upgrade are just bonkers. The world isn't so black and white as "everybody should upgrade to Windows 10" or "nobody should upgrade to Windows 10".
There's no legitimate reasons presented here. Any control restrictions can be bypassed in literally seconds. It's a consumer product first, tool second. that's not to say it's any worse at being a tool than earlier versions, but these so called 'power user' can't be so assed as to do anything remotely tech savvy to make their experience better lol [editline]4th September 2016[/editline] Again, work on what you want, but if you're gonna outdate yourself then recognize it. Don't pretend that you're not.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;50998028]It's "official" support. Or in other words "you can't come to us for technical support if you're using it like that". I seriously doubt that older Windows won't work on the newer CPUs. That'd take some [I]serious[/I] fuckery with basic x86 functionality. A platform where the only non-backwards compatible change made in its entire existence was the introduction of protected mode [I]34 years ago[/I] in 1982.[/QUOTE] Exactly. If this shouldn't work, then they'd have to update Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and older, to ensure that it wouldn't work. Otherwise it's just specific CPU features and x86 extensions that won't be used. I mean it has happened before that AMD has been unable to support their CPUs on certain versions of Windows due to these changes, but that's a long time past.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;50998335]There's no legitimate reasons presented here. Any control restrictions can be bypassed in literally seconds. It's a consumer product first, tool second. that's not to say it's any worse at being a tool than earlier versions, but these so called 'power user' can't be so assed as to do anything remotely tech savvy to make their experience better lol [editline]4th September 2016[/editline] Again, work on what you want, but if you're gonna outdate yourself then recognize it. Don't pretend that you're not.[/QUOTE] It does not take "literally seconds" to buy and upgrade to Enterprise, nor should someone have to for such a simple thing. Make all the childish personal attacks you want; the world still isn't as black and white as you say. You can't just invalidate people's experiences by saying they're illegitimate because you say so; you can [I]try[/I], but that's not going to make them want to upgrade.
[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;50998461]It does not take "literally seconds" to buy and upgrade to Enterprise, nor should someone have to for such a simple thing. Make all the childish personal attacks you want; the world still isn't as black and white as you say. You can't just invalidate people's experiences by saying they're illegitimate because you say so; you can [I]try[/I], but that's not going to make them want to upgrade.[/QUOTE] I don't want you to upgrade lmao, trust me idgaf, but you're absolutely hilarious if you think enterprise is your only chance to control your O's 'Power User'
I updated to Windows 10 just to check it out expecting some sort of huge piece of shit but when It ended up running/booting faster and apart from some questionable things like cortana once i got used to the new UI it was honestly fine, took me like, 10 minutes to adjust to the newer UI
I did a fresh install of Windows 10 on a new HDD because my old one was failing. The only thing that sucks with it for me is that it can't use my DVD drive correctly, resulting in very slow reading speeds, opening/closing 10 times when you want it to open only once and a bunch of other things that make it unusable. If it is used with a bootable DVD, (before Windows 10 can do anything with it), it works completely fine. :speechless:
[QUOTE=Fox Powers;50996976]Am I the only one not affected by this? I've never gotten this kind of shit, most updates DO install while I'm using it but thankfully always happen when I'm not really doing anything, so I just restart[/QUOTE] I have done nothing special to my settings and my win10 only updates when i hit the Update and Shut Down button when i was going to shutdown anyway
If Microsoft didn't put so much spyware in along with forced untested update, this wouldn't be a problem. But no only is MS stealing your data, they're sending you update which have the potential to break your install. So the point of this is what exactly?
[QUOTE=da space core;50996572]virtual desktops? directx 12? task view? fast start up? action center? windows ink? native notification sync to andriod? a way to beta test dev builds and ask for bugfixes and new features? wireless display abilities? better driver control? storage arrays? better multimonitor support? etc etc etc yeah i get there are some issues with 10, particularly the forced upgrades and updates, and you are all free to criticize microsoft for those actions, but some of the windows 10 hate is just so plain incorrect. this isnt going from xp to vista where we got a shiny skin at the cost of performance, higher minimum requirements, and just plain instability no matter the system. there are actual, real improvements under the hood and even in plain features. the forced update thing is not consumer friendly, but in reality, actual updates occur once every few months (unless you are on the insider tracks). feel free to dislike windows 10, you have all the right, but keep your reasoning in reality, not nonsense.[/QUOTE] Yes, thank you for listing the things people may not deem update worthy.
[QUOTE=Burnout6010;50998625]I did a fresh install of Windows 10 on a new HDD because my old one was failing. The only thing that sucks with it for me is that it can't use my DVD drive correctly, resulting in very slow reading speeds, opening/closing 10 times when you want it to open only once and a bunch of other things that make it unusable. If it is used with a bootable DVD, (before Windows 10 can do anything with it), it works completely fine. :speechless:[/QUOTE] Seems like a driver error, have you looked into that?
MS said they fixed several of the critical 'not booting after install, upgrade, update' bugs yet guess what, they didn't update those into new ESD/ISOs yet :speechless:
it's not as simple, MS did lot of subtle ways how force new Windows for example quite some of fixes for xAudio2 exists only in version for Windows 10 you guess right even the updated version for 8.1 don't have those fixes and you can' t run the W10 lib on 8.1 because dependencies :) overally I'm still quite worried about the new CPUs being unsupported on 8.1 as that's still an active OS
I stick with 7 because I play a lot of older games that I can barely get running on 7, can't even imagine the headaches I'd have if I were to upgrade. Also, the two times I have tried to give 10 a go my computer simply refused to boot up.
[QUOTE=Dwarden;50999013]overally I'm still quite worried about the new CPUs being unsupported on 8.1 as that's still an active OS[/QUOTE] They're "unsupported" in the sense that new features of the CPU instruction set just straight up will be unavailable on the OS. The CPU itself will work totally fine as any given Windows NT kernel supports the minimum subset of x86_64 required to actually compute. It just means you don't have access to parallel processing instruction sets like newer versions of AVX and SSE. You'll still be able to do anything you can currently do on Windows 7/8/8.1, you just wont be able to use anything particularly new CPU wise (not that this is a problem as most desktop applications are running on abstractions anyway, so underlying differences in CPU instruction sets are hidden from programmers). [editline]4th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Matthew0505;50998947]It's probably just an artificial restriction that can be bypassed with a patch like Halo 2 for Vista.[/QUOTE] This is because Halo 2 didn't actually use DX10, it was still using DX 9.0c like almost every single D3D based game at the time because DX10 was a travesty. The game was just performing a check on the reported Windows version. Not API availability. DX12 is something developers are actually intending on using, you won't be able to just say "yeh but i am w10 tho" to the game. If it attempts to use DX12 and DX12 isn't there, it's not going to use DX12 at all.
[QUOTE=daigennki;50996872]Because it interrupts whatever you are doing unexpectedly, duh. [video=youtube;eP31lluUDWU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP31lluUDWU[/video][/QUOTE] this is utterly unforgivable, entirely anti-user friendly design and anyone who defends this needs a reality check as to what an operating system that is supposed to serve the consumer should and should not be doing
Don't ignore all the update scheduling messages it gives you and everything will be fine.
[QUOTE=da space core;50996572] better multimonitor support? [/QUOTE] Kinda wanna disagree here, you can no longer do corner to corner multiscreen, as screen 1's upper left corner connects with screen 2's bottom right, because there's this stupid ass thing in the corner that stops you from doing that which you can't disable.
[QUOTE=da space core;50994946]Before any of you jump to conclusions, please read the source, they are not outright banning other windows versions from the new chips, they just wont have official support. This affects intel and AMD CPU's[/QUOTE] It's still a bad title. It reads more like that thing in 8.1 where it will refuse to start if you're missing a certain CPU instruction.
[QUOTE=lavacano;50999480]It's still a bad title. It reads more like that thing in 8.1 where it will refuse to start if you're missing a certain CPU instruction.[/QUOTE] What CPUs did that actually impact? I can't think of many from recent years at least that are lacking certain core instructions. Outside of actual legacy hardware that I'd be surprised to see in use by like 98% of the consumer market (Pentium/MIPS makes up the entire remaining 2%).
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