Man's Life-Alert pendant goes off; gets shot after telling police to leave him alone
113 replies, posted
I'd like to say that it's a mystery how someone could be dumb enough to go through the thought process of "man with heart problems, instigate grievous bodily assault", but then I remember the article about the applicant who was overqualified for police work because he was too smart.
If a crime hasn't happened and one isn't reported, dont the cops have to get a warrant to enter a home without probable cause?
[QUOTE=Dysgalt;35042535]The protection from stabbing in Kevlar only goes so far, and you cannot protect all of the body, he could have easily sliced open the thigh of an officer. Just have to consider all probabilities, even if I disagree with their choice.[/QUOTE]
We're talking a fucking 68 year old with heart problems, I doubt that's gonna penetrate kevlar, or clothing even when slashing.
Justified use of force but it seems like the police incited him to attack or at least didn't talk him down
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35043883]If a crime hasn't happened and one isn't reported, dont the cops have to get a warrant to enter a home without probable cause?[/QUOTE]
Yup, so they were breaking and entering, and shooting potentially lethal weapons(tazers) and lethal weapons(pistols) at the dude.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35043883]If a crime hasn't happened and one isn't reported, dont the cops have to get a warrant to enter a home without probable cause?[/QUOTE]
I think an activated emergency like Life-Alert over rides that. Especially when he doesn't answer.
To the peopl crying foul about the taser, it's quite possible one of the prongs missed and that's why they had to use lethal force. Whether the situation was justified isn't for me to say - I wasnt there.
[QUOTE=Crimor;35043910]We're talking a fucking 68 year old with heart problems, I doubt that's gonna penetrate kevlar, or clothing even when slashing.[/QUOTE]
Kevlar covers the chest and hands - a knife can hit anywhere. And just because he had heart problems doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to penetrate with a knife.
[QUOTE=Sottalytober;35043945]I think an activated emergency like Life-Alert over rides that. Especially when he doesn't answer.
To the peopl crying foul about the taser, it's quite possible one of the prongs missed and that's why they had to use lethal force. Whether the situation was justified isn't for me to say - I wasnt there.[/QUOTE]
He did answer, he said he was fucking fine.
[QUOTE=Crimor;35043952]He did answer, he said he was fucking fine.[/QUOTE]
I've just shot you in your house after you called 911. I yell I'm fine to the cops who respond and I say "I'm fine sorry." they walk away and I drag your body into a tub, steal your things and walk away.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35043883]If a crime hasn't happened and one isn't reported, dont the cops have to get a warrant to enter a home without probable cause?[/QUOTE]
Life alert can also be used to call the cops. He hit the button, meaning there was [i]some[/i] kind of unspecified emergency, which is why they sent cops with the ambulance. He didn't answer the life alert caller, so there were a number of possible circumstances(one of them being a home invasion/murder). When the cops get there and he refuses to answer the door but instead just yells at them to go away, that was very suspicious. For all the cops knew a murder had taken place and whoever was inside had a body somewhere inside. So they busted down the door because they had enough probable cause(they were sent to address an unidentified emergency, and when they arrive nobody will open the door). The man was yelling and whether he was being aggressive at that moment is unclear. Maybe he stood up and took a step towards the cops, maybe a cop got scared, maybe they were being trigger happy at that moment, who knows? But the man gets shocked, and while the cops are moving into the house trying to check for other people/dead bodies, the man grabs a knife. In all the commotion he could've stabbed anyone, and even at this point they most likely didn't know this was the same man who had the heart condition. This whole ordeal from door opening to shot fire probably took place in a matter of seconds. A cop saw a possible threat and decided to deal with it. The whole thing could have gone better than it had, but it seems like mistakes were made on [b]both[/b] sides.
Bottom line is, when you basically call 911 for an emergency, and don't answer the phone responder(leading them to think you're dead or otherwise in serious danger), you should probably open the door when they knock. The man is at fault here, too.
[editline]8th March 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crimor;35043952]He did answer, he said he was fucking fine.[/QUOTE]
He didn't respond to life alert, he only talked to the cops at his house. Had he said "I'm fine," over the speaker or whatever it is he uses to talk to the life alert system, cops wouldn't have showed up.
[editline]8th March 2012[/editline]
It's like calling 911 and then not saying anything. He hit a button specifically made to report emergencies.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;35040939]And this is why UK police don't have guns.[/QUOTE]
Err, yes they do, the only time I've seen an officer without at least a glock or revolver on them is in a police station.
[QUOTE=Rents;35044171]Err, yes they do, the only time I've seen an officer without at least a glock or revolver on them is in a police station.[/QUOTE]
You saw a UK policeman with a glock or a revolver? I'm certain revolvers aren't issued to any law enforcement in the UK
[QUOTE=Kondor58;35044265]You saw a UK policeman with a glock or a revolver? I'm certain revolvers aren't issued to any law enforcement in the UK[/QUOTE]
Not for a few years, so it's probably phased out, but still about the least deadly thing I've seen the police carrying while on-duty.
[quote]Another officer, the niece says, said he wanted to pee in Mr. Chamberlain’s bathroom.[/quote]
Wait, why is this offensive? Isn't that kinda what bathrooms are for?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;35044610]Wait, why is this offensive? Isn't that kinda what bathrooms are for?[/QUOTE]
Exactly the sensationalist bullshit I am talking about. I would bet he was like "Hey man I've been in that squad car for four hours, I'm gonna ask this guy if I can use his bathroom before we go"
[QUOTE=ZF911;35044065]Life alert can also be used to call the cops. He hit the button, meaning there was [i]some[/i] kind of unspecified emergency, which is why they sent cops with the ambulance. He didn't answer the life alert caller, so there were a number of possible circumstances(one of them being a home invasion/murder). When the cops get there and he refuses to answer the door but instead just yells at them to go away, that was very suspicious. For all the cops knew a murder had taken place and whoever was inside had a body somewhere inside. So they busted down the door because they had enough probable cause(they were sent to address an unidentified emergency, and when they arrive nobody will open the door). The man was yelling and whether he was being aggressive at that moment is unclear. Maybe he stood up and took a step towards the cops, maybe a cop got scared, maybe they were being trigger happy at that moment, who knows? But the man gets shocked, and while the cops are moving into the house trying to check for other people/dead bodies, the man grabs a knife. In all the commotion he could've stabbed anyone, and even at this point they most likely didn't know this was the same man who had the heart condition. This whole ordeal from door opening to shot fire probably took place in a matter of seconds. A cop saw a possible threat and decided to deal with it. The whole thing could have gone better than it had, but it seems like mistakes were made on [b]both[/b] sides.
Bottom line is, when you basically call 911 for an emergency, and don't answer the phone responder(leading them to think you're dead or otherwise in serious danger), you should probably open the door when they knock. The man is at fault here, too.
[editline]8th March 2012[/editline]
He didn't respond to life alert, he only talked to the cops at his house. Had he said "I'm fine," over the speaker or whatever it is he uses to talk to the life alert system, cops wouldn't have showed up.
[editline]8th March 2012[/editline]
It's like calling 911 and then not saying anything. He hit a button specifically made to report emergencies.[/QUOTE]
Most sensible & informative post in this topic so far, I think.
[QUOTE=booster;35040256]Withstood electric charges?
I thought those things were made so you wouldn't be able to move after being shot by one.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes they don't work property or get a proper contact.
I got in a use of force in a jail with one. I kid you not, a huge 300 pound dude was going at it and we pulled out the taser on him. The taser was a direct hit but had no effect on him, he turned around and asked us why we were tasing him. At that point we just dog piled him.
[QUOTE=MR-X;35044984]Sometimes they don't work property or get a proper contact.
I got in a use of force in a jail with one. I kid you not, a huge 300 pound dude was going at it and we pulled out the taser on him. The taser was a direct hit but had no effect on him, he turned around and asked us why we were tasing him. At that point we just dog piled him.[/QUOTE]
I just assumed the guy was masturbating and your post became hilarious.
[QUOTE=ZF911;35040393]If he was fine he should've opened the door and talked to the officers. For all they knew someone had broken into the place and killed the man who called life alert.[/QUOTE]
Only a retard opens the door for people who may have weapons. I'd tell them to either get a warrant or set up an appointment for me to go down to the station if I'm not a suspect. You never know when cops are not actually cops... and yes, that does actually happen, people disguise themselves as police and then rob people.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;35045892]Only a retard opens the door for people who may have weapons. I'd tell them to either get a warrant or set up an appointment for me to go down to the station if I'm not a suspect. You never know when cops are not actually cops... and yes, that does actually happen, people disguise themselves as police and then rob people.[/QUOTE]
When you hit an emergency button that dials 911, would you really expect "cops" that show up within the next half hour to be fakes?
[editline]8th March 2012[/editline]
And under normal circumstances they need a warrant. When you hit an emergency button and don't respond to the operator, the cops are sent under the assumption that you are either unconscious, dead, restrained, or otherwise in danger. All they hear when they get there is "Leave me alone," and the person inside absolutely refuses to open the door, even though an emergency button was pressed to call the cops. It's not unreasonable of the cops to consider the possibility of a home invader trying to get rid of the police.
Option Chosen: Shoot him in a lethal area
Other Options Possible
-Shoot in the legs
-Maybe shoot him with the beanbag gun.
-Heavy objects work well i'm sure.
EDIT:
What I meant:
Could've, you know, not used lethal force...
fucking pig cops
if the police think there's a possible emergency in your home when there isn't you should probably let them in for 45 seconds to show them that there's not
[QUOTE=blackfire88;35046296]Option Chosen: Shoot him in a lethal area
Other Options Possible
-Shoot in the legs
-Maybe shoot him with the beanbag gun.
-Heavy objects work well i'm sure.[/QUOTE]
contrary to popular belief, a shot in the leg can actually be very fatal if it his a major artery. And i really doubt most cops carry a beanbag gun. and a heavy object such as a police baton can kill someone. Im not really for the cops, but both sides fucked up in this situation.
[QUOTE=blackfire88;35046296]Option Chosen: Shoot him in a lethal area
Other Options Possible
-Shoot in the legs
-Maybe shoot him with the beanbag gun.
-Heavy objects work well i'm sure.[/QUOTE]
Police are not trained to defend themselves by shooting people in the legs.
Also I don't see what some people don't get about the guy saying he's fine and to go away. For all the police knew, there was a criminal inside telling them "hey guys don't come in. everything's fine in here!" with the homeowner tied up and gagged. If that really happened you'd all be sitting there calling the police morons for falling for it.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;35046680]contrary to popular belief, a shot in the leg can actually be very fatal if it his a major artery. And i really doubt most cops carry a beanbag gun. and a heavy object such as a police baton can kill someone. Im not really for the cops, but both sides fucked up in this situation.[/QUOTE]
It said in the article that they had beanbag shotguns.
And this why you don't pull a knife on cops. Even if you're in the right....you just don't do it
[QUOTE=Crimor;35041053]And if you, a trained fucking police officer trained in cqc, can't grab the knife of a fucking 68 year old with heart problems, with your kevlar fucking gloves, you need to go back to the academy.
Hell, it said that they had shotguns, damn things are awesome as a stick to hit something out of the hands of people.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious?
Are you fucking serious?
You need to stop watching movies.
Regardless of this situation. You're painting the picture of a broad scenario.
Sorry, but not all police officers are the likes of Steven Seagal.
Except I actually train with knives regularly and something like a shitty kitchen knife, wielded by a fucking 68 year old with a major heart condition isn't gonna pose a threat with a decent pair of kevlar gloves, even less with a kevlar vest.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;35043883]If a crime hasn't happened and one isn't reported, dont the cops have to get a warrant to enter a home without probable cause?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;35048343]Yes.[/QUOTE]
Which again, means that they illegally entered private housing, threatened a civilian and then shot him when he defended himself.
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