[QUOTE=OleWally;25041306]Very interesting for you to post this when
[img]http://i56.tinypic.com/keubfd.jpg[/img]
inb4 neanderthals had bigger brains[/QUOTE]
I haven't really addressed this because the book it's from is pretty dodgy and most biologists say it's bullhonkey, but for those of you who haven't taken statistics yet you should note that the bar graph doesn't start at zero, making the difference in the graph far more exaggerated than it actually is.
This is considered an extremely dishonest trick by statisticians, because although it's not technically lying, the physical size of the bars no longer reflect the quantities they are supposed to represent, which defeats the purpose of a visual aid.
What's the unit of measurement for the Y axis anyways?
What is a 1000 brain size
[editline]09:28PM[/editline]
cubic...centimeters?
Yeah, I assumed cm^3 as well
if the chart wasn't shit it would have labelled it.
[QUOTE=TH89;25057051]I haven't really addressed this because the book it's from is pretty dodgy and most biologists say it's bullhonkey, but for those of you who haven't taken statistics yet you should note that the bar graph doesn't start at zero, making the difference in the graph far more exaggerated than it actually is.
This is considered an extremely dishonest trick by statisticians, because although it's not technically lying, the physical size of the bars no longer reflect the quantities they are supposed to represent, which defeats the purpose of a visual aid.[/QUOTE]
also, "orientals".
[QUOTE=Roskarnolkov;25053582]I hate Holocaust jokes. My grandfather died in WWII. He was a Nazi at a concentration camp and was shot by an enemy soldier.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hear that. My grandpa died there too. In a drunken stupor, he fell out of a concentration camp guard tower.
[editline]12:38AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TH89;25057051]I haven't really addressed this because the book it's from is pretty dodgy and most biologists say it's bullhonkey, but for those of you who haven't taken statistics yet you should note that the bar graph doesn't start at zero, making the difference in the graph far more exaggerated than it actually is.
This is considered an extremely dishonest trick by statisticians, because although it's not technically lying, the physical size of the bars no longer reflect the quantities they are supposed to represent, which defeats the purpose of a visual aid.[/QUOTE]
"Studies show that blacks have smallest brains.. egh, I don't like that, that's dodgy. That don't represent shit."
I learned about broken scales in 7th grade :smug:
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;25057075]What's the unit of measurement for the Y axis anyways?[/QUOTE]
Glad to know I wasn't the only person wondering what the hell the measurements were...
[QUOTE=GodKing;25057278]Sorry to hear that. My grandpa died there too. In a drunken stupor, he fell out of a concentration camp guard tower.[/quote]
Hurr, and it's already been done in this thread.
[QUOTE=GodKing;25057278][editline]12:38AM[/editline]
"Studies show that blacks have smallest brains.. egh, I don't like that, that's dodgy. That don't represent shit."[/QUOTE]
A single study done in a non-scientific context (trying to show the inferiority of blacks) to measure something that modern biologists agree doesn't mean shit.
[editline]12:52AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ridge;25057596]Glad to know I wasn't the only person wondering what the hell the measurements were...[/QUOTE]
I'm thinking they're grams or cubic centimeters.
[QUOTE=Ridge;25057596]Glad to know I wasn't the only person wondering what the hell the measurements were...[/QUOTE]
Cubic centimeters
the y-axis should be labeled "thetans"
[editline]penis[/editline]
because it's bullshit
[QUOTE=Prismatex;25057669]I'm pretty sure they're grams.[/QUOTE]
It could be a tumor...
[QUOTE=GodKing;25057278]"Studies show that blacks have smallest brains.. egh, I don't like that, that's dodgy. That don't represent shit."[/QUOTE]
[quote]In a review of Rushton's book, anthropologist C. Loring Brace wrote:
"Race, Evolution, and Behavior is an amalgamation of bad biology and inexcusable anthropology. It is not science but advocacy, and advocacy of 'racialism'"[15][/quote]
[quote]In a response to Rushton's book, Peregrine found, even though using "three versions of the ‘race’ variable, each representing one of the apparent definitions that Rushton used", that "Rushton’s predictions do not find much support, regardless of how ‘race’ is operationalized."[19]
Gil-White, writing in regards to Peregrine's work, states:
The authors are not doing justice to their own findings. It is not true that "Rushton’s predictions do not find much support"; what is true is that Rushton’s predictions are completely contradicted.[20]
[/quote]
[quote]After mass mailing his book to psychology, sociology and anthropology professors across North America based on his racial papers, Hermann Helmuth, a professor of anthropology at Trent University, said, "It is in a way personal and political propaganda. There is no basis to his scientific research."[24][/quote]
[quote]Francisco Gil-White wrote disparagingly of Race, Evolution and Behavior, stating, "Race, Evolution, and Behavior is a tiny, self-published book (a pamphlet, really), that Rushton takes the trouble to mail to people who never requested a copy, such as myself."[25][/quote]
The only significant non-psychologist who responded favorably to this book was an evolutionary anthropologist who was already heavily invested in his pet theory of superior Jewish intelligence.
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;25041982]black
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racism" - TH89))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
i actually had to check if that was real.
I don't find the term "Oriental" to be drastically pejorative to the point that it warrants changing it to something more politically-correct. If I lived in China, people could call me whatever the hell they'd want as long as they didn't have any malevolent intent.
As for the matter of racial jokes, a person should not make one when in the company of someone that belongs to the race targeted by the joke, unless he's especially familiar with them and knows for fact that the intended level of hilarity derived from said joke is enough to warrant making it in the first place.
[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;25065520]I don't find the term "Oriental" to be drastically pejorative to the point that it warrants changing it to something more politically-correct. If I lived in China, people could call me whatever the hell they'd want as long as they didn't have any malevolent intent.
As for the matter of racial jokes, a person should not make one when in the company of someone that belongs to the race targeted by the joke, unless he's especially familiar with them and knows for fact that the intended level of hilarity derived from said joke is enough to warrant making it in the first place.[/QUOTE]
May I ask what race you are
[QUOTE=James*;25065596]May I ask what race you are[/QUOTE]
I was raised by goats in the mountains of Albania, but my biological parents were really Austronesian pygmies that were brought to the Balkans as part of a science experiment.
[QUOTE=James*;25065596]May I ask what race you are[/QUOTE]
According to a newspaper survey in Toronto most Asians don't find Oriental offensive, and that ones that do usually relate it to the oppression of Oriental labourers in the early late 19th-early 20th centuries.
[QUOTE=OleWally;25068302]According to a newspaper survey in Toronto most Asians don't find Oriental offensive, and that ones that do usually relate it to the oppression of Oriental labourers in the early late 19th-early 20th centuries.[/QUOTE]
Oh you dog you critical thought. Always trying to insult Muslims.
[QUOTE=OleWally;25068302]According to a newspaper survey in Toronto most Asians don't find Oriental offensive, and that ones that do usually relate it to the oppression of Oriental labourers in the early late 19th-early 20th centuries.[/QUOTE]
My point was that he doesn't find the term offensive, which unless he is Asian, is pretty much irrelevant. Obviously you can judge how offensive a word may be by doing studies such as in the example you posted and by looking at historical context etcetera but he's not really in a position to say whether they should be offended by it or not.
[QUOTE=James*;25068932]but he's not really in a position to say whether they should be offended by it or not.[/QUOTE]
Of course I am!
:smug:
[QUOTE=Afgman;25068612]Oh you dog you critical thought. Always trying to insult Muslims.[/QUOTE]
What's about Muslims?
Do I have to stop refering to that area as "The Orient" now? Is that offensive? Oriental is not offensive, it's a fucking word, jesus christ. It's not offensive, stop being babies.
It has magical powers just like the "n word."
Occident represent
It was only a matter of time
When describing a person, I would use the word "Oriental" if I'm not sure of his or her specific nationality. I don't use the word "Asian," only because it sounds so ghastly unspecific. Yeah, people will know what I'm talking about if I say Asian, but then I'd just be using common terminology. I'm a rebel, yo'.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;25047881]Yeah, averages. Averages aren't accurate equations of entire populations, nor can they deal with socio-political or socio-economic reasons. It's a rough guide, to explain everything using an average is just dumb. Averages compliment arguments, not finish them.[/quote]
I think you don't understand how averages work. They pretty accurately portray a range for each group.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;25047881]Yeah, you'know, like analyzing why WWII happened. You can't say 'on average a large number of Germans were racist, so WWII started'. I know it's not quite that simple, I'm being simplistic and crude to make a point. What exactly is wrong with Socio-economic analysis?[/quote]
Yes you are. The problem is that socio-economics have nothing to do with brain sizes, unless you're suggesting that your brain grows when you learn more.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;25047881]Rich families can afford a better education. Mozart wasn't poor, neither was Kissin or Salvador Dali. But that doesn't mean rich people are smarter, it's the fact that they have better access to education, more pressure to do well, and less social pressures in their way from education. Nothing to do with white people or racism, it's pure economics. It's why I say comparing American Blacks to African blacks on IQ scores is just stupid from an intelligence point of view, you're only analyzing economics.[/quote]
I was mocking you when you brought up "money involved". Also no I'm not only analyzing economics, as I said the average Black American has 20% European DNA.
[QUOTE=MrEndangered;25047881]That's because Asians have a much more communal approach to family, and a different upbringing (For example, Asians parents in general prefer an Independent (Type B) child than a Dependant child (Type A) like alot of western countries do) even when the family has been living in a western nation for many generations. There is alot more pressure and expectation to succeed in an Asian family than in your average Caucasian home. The difference is really quite shocking, but interesting.[/QUOTE]
Tradition may be able to account for pressure for success, but that has nothing to do with brain size, nor does account for the gap between Whites and Blacks, only the gap between Whites and Asians.
The reason I didn't respond is because I've tried to argue against this same line before, like socio-economics is a catch all for problems people refuse to understand. We've been throwing money at the impoverished ethnic neighbourhoods for decades now, and the results still come up the same.
[QUOTE=God's Pimp Hand;25075691]When describing a person, I would use the word "Oriental" if I'm not sure of his or her specific nationality. I don't use the word "Asian," only because it sounds so ghastly unspecific. Yeah, people will know what I'm talking about if I say Asian, but then I'd just be using common terminology. I'm a rebel, yo'.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, fair enough, but I find most Asians refer to themselves and each other as Asians, so I don't find it that big of a deal. It's much more important to learn the physical differences than it is to find a polite word for it.
Secondly, you have an amazing name.
[editline]12:19AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=OleWally;25075891]I think you don't understand how averages work. They pretty accurately portray a range for each group.[/QUOTE]
It's a method of providing an easier format for scientific data, but in real world it doesn't apply so well. For example, getting a room full of people, measuring their brains, and applying average statistics to each individual doesn't account for all that much, since you could have a guy with a smaller than average brain who is poor at academic tests but has an extremely good applicable knowledge of mechanics or artistic talent. These things cannot be shown on an IQ test.
Also you have to factor in the Theory of Multiple Intelligences.
[QUOTE=OleWally;25075891]Yes you are. The problem is that socio-economics have nothing to do with brain sizes, unless you're suggesting that your brain grows when you learn more.[/QUOTE]
No, but you're oversimplifying the affects of brain size. May I add, that there is plenty of overlap between the races brain sizes, and that people with smaller or larger brains can be no more or less intelligent. Brain size is an interesting discussion point, but has been quoted to only account for "4-5% of the racial IQ differences". Also, you think the graph you posted is at all accurate about the sizes of black peoples brains...
Holy shit. That's all I can say.
Oh yeah, and don't forget that most tests just measure the cranium, not the actual brain using MRI scanners.
[QUOTE=OleWally;25075891]I was mocking you when you brought up "money involved". Also no I'm not only analyzing economics, as I said the average Black American has 20% European DNA.[/QUOTE]
Your point is?
[QUOTE=OleWally;25075891]Tradition may be able to account for pressure for success, but that has nothing to do with brain size, nor does account for the gap between Whites and Blacks, only the gap between Whites and Asians.[/QUOTE]
Again, oversimplification about the impact of brain size. Brain size is not a complete answer to IQ, it'd be kinda easy then, wouldn't it? MRI scan, done! We know how clever they'll be.
So, you're admitting I had a point about whites and Asians, or not?
[QUOTE=OleWally;25075891]The reason I didn't respond is because I've tried to argue against this same line before, like socio-economics is a catch all for problems people refuse to understand. We've been throwing money at the impoverished ethnic neighbourhoods for decades now, and the results still come up the same.[/QUOTE]
I take it you failed to win that argument given your tone. Social-economic arguments don't answer everything I agree, but neither do brain sizes or ethnicity. Given you have facts such as background, upbringing, nutrition, education quality, culture and family support all seem to have an effect on IQ, it's pretty stupid to ignore them completely as 'OMG you're just making excuses!'.
Also, that last point is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Go and take a good walk through alot of impoverished neighborhoods and see how much generous taxpayers money they're receiving. Sure, they want to be impoverished out of choice! Of course! I mean, there are no run down schools that can barely afford teaching staff, or there is no violent gang crime in the area sucking away possibility good students because of culture, or hell! Look at all this money we're giving them, they have everything and it just doesn't work!
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