Bernie Sanders says he'll introduce 'Medicare for all' bill - Polidicks

A plurality of Americans support universal healthcare btw: [url]http://www.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx[/url] [url]http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/279991-poll-majority-of-americans-support-federally-funded-healthcare[/url] And bailing out Wallstreet was what in the trillions? Same for an unnecessary war in Iraq. Yes we can absolutely find the money for this.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52013102]What's a progressive tax plan to you? Will it be enough to make up for the cost of the new national insurance monopoly?[/QUOTE] As stated by Bernie's plan in the primaries: [quote] Progressive income tax rates. Revenue raised: $110 billion a year. Under this plan the marginal income tax rate would be: ○ 37 percent on income between $250,000 and $500,000. ○ 43 percent on income between $500,000 and $2 million. ○ 48 percent on income between $2 million and $10 million. (In 2013, only 113,000 households, the top 0.08 percent of taxpayers, had income between $2 million and $10 million.) ○ 52 percent on income above $10 million. (In 2013, only 13,000 households, just 0.01 percent of taxpayers, had income exceeding $10 million.) [/quote] his plan also listed several other sources of income, including eliminating tax deductions for the rich ( anyone making over $250,000 will no longer save > $.28/$1), an estate tax, and others.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52013074]The idea of expanding Medicare to everyone is generally unpopular mostly for budgetary reasons, I think. Medicare payouts right now take up some 35%(?) of the annual federal budget. Given the quality of care already afforded to those in the system (what with being denied service by those who can't afford to treat them) it doesn't add up that we'd be able to give everyone that same service AND significantly improved the quality of care without some massive tax hikes. That's where the real problem lies, tax and spending. In my opinion, healthcare plans tend to offer a "pick two" of affordability, quality, or availability. This just doesn't seem like the right combination.[/QUOTE] Except most do want a medicare like system. [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/16/most-americans-want-to-replace-obamacare-with-a-single-payer-system-including-a-lot-of-republicans/?utm_term=.5f2b38d2b609]Even some republicans do[/url] [QUOTE=Chonch;52013092]Time has taught me to avoid trusting entirely the words of the politician using these kinds of sales tactics.[/QUOTE] You must really hate Trump then.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52013074]The idea of expanding Medicare to everyone is generally unpopular mostly for budgetary reasons, I think. Medicare payouts right now take up some 35%(?) of the annual federal budget. Given the quality of care already afforded to those in the system (what with being denied service by those who can't afford to treat them) it doesn't add up that we'd be able to give everyone that same service AND significantly improved the quality of care without some massive tax hikes. That's where the real problem lies, tax and spending. In my opinion, healthcare plans tend to offer a "pick two" of affordability, quality, or availability. This just doesn't seem like the right combination.[/QUOTE] Yeah, we can't make medicare available for everyone, we have to buy more bombs so we can destroy the Middle East!

Footage of speech [media]https://youtu.be/pQfEuiQLmFQ[/media] Angry Bernie is best Bernie.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;52013148]Yeah, we can't make medicare available for everyone, we have to buy more bombs so we can destroy the Middle East![/QUOTE] The galling thing about this continued debate about healthcare is that almost every other developed country out there has some sort of nationalized healthcare system. But somehow one of the richest countries on earth can't seem to find the cash.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/BjqpZoa.png[/img]

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52013053]maybe the solution is to raise taxes then. or make healthcare cheaper, less profit driven[/QUOTE] It's not possible to out tax the growth of Medicare. It's a nonsensical answer to the problem. You could take 100% of the money from every wealthy person and it wouldn't be anything more than a band-aid. This is my point. It seems like it would make sense to figure out how to make Medicare work now, before putting everyone onto it.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013166]It's not possible to out tax the growth of Medicare. It's a nonsensical answer to the problem. You could take 100% of the money from every wealthy person and it wouldn't be anything more than a band-aid. This is my point. It seems like it would make sense to figure out how to make Medicare work now, before putting everyone onto it.[/QUOTE] Healthcare works in every other country, America is the only country that is apparently so fucking stupid we can't figure it out even though we've got dozens of functioning examples to work from.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013166]It's not possible to out tax the growth of Medicare. It's a nonsensical answer to the problem. You could take 100% of the money from every wealthy person and it wouldn't be anything more than a band-aid. This is my point. It seems like it would make sense to figure out how to make Medicare work now, before putting everyone onto it.[/QUOTE] I doubt that will happen anytime soon considering how quickly trumpcare nosedived into the ground.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013166]It's not possible to out tax the growth of Medicare. It's a nonsensical answer to the problem. You could take 100% of the money from every wealthy person and it wouldn't be anything more than a band-aid. This is my point. It seems like it would make sense to figure out how to make Medicare work now, before putting everyone onto it.[/QUOTE] the medicare bubble will only last the next twenty years or so then taper off, yes you absolutely can out tax it. we managed to keep social security afloat so far and theres two big generations on it presently

[QUOTE=Chonch;52012996]I'm sure it will demonstrate the highest respect for fiscal responsibility that the Sanders name has become so well known for.[/QUOTE] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/04/donald-trump-travel-costs-mar-a-lago-taxpayers[/url] [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-costs-trips-security-taxpayer-barack-obama-month-year-a7586261.html[/url] [url]https://www.bustle.com/p/how-much-were-obamas-travel-costs-compared-to-trumps-potus-trips-come-with-a-price-tag-46423[/url] [B]F I S C A L R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y [/B] Cram it, Corky.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52013205]Healthcare works in every other country, America is the only country that is apparently so fucking stupid we can't figure it out even though we've got dozens of functioning examples to work from.[/QUOTE] Great, cool. So why didn't the democrats fix the current Medicare when they had control? It's easy to say that something is easy to fix, but when they've failed to do it, even with completely control, the easiness doesn't seem so easy anymore.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013250]Great, cool. So why didn't the democrats fix the current Medicare when they had control?[/QUOTE] because they were busy working on obamacare?

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52013252]because they were busy working on obamacare?[/QUOTE] Medicare has been growing in cost at a fairly constant rate since the late 1970s.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52013102]What's a progressive tax plan to you? Will it be enough to make up for the cost of the new national insurance monopoly? When I'm on mobile, I do these things and use words like "think" and "?" because source options are not readily available to me. I appreciate you looking up the real figure. I guess a quarter of the budget isn't nearly as outrageous. Mercy me.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4ySoy9o.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4BMJdwP.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rfwTnND.png[/IMG] If you'd bothered to read the source properly you'd see it's less than 15%, which is not even [I]close[/I] to the 35% you pulled out of your arse. Even that is a huge amount, I agree -- partly because you have the most expensive healthcare system in the whole world. [URL="http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror"](Source, 2014)[/URL] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tnVNGu3.png[/IMG] I think the government has a lot better chance of bringing that figure down than the people getting shafted, and maybe if you put the millstone around their neck then they would actually have an incentive to sort it out. It's a national embarrassment. Free market my arse.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013258]Medicare has been growing in cost at a fairly constant rate since the late 1970s.[/QUOTE] It's been rare for the democrats to have full control of congress while also having a democratic president in power. That's how LBJ got medicare done in the first place. Reading around it looks like obamacare actually took steps to try to reduce the cost of medicare so hey I guess they did try to fix medicare.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52012996]I'm sure it will demonstrate the highest respect for fiscal responsibility that the Sanders name has become so well known for.[/QUOTE] Citation needed.

Here's the sister bill in the House. [url="https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/676/text"]HR676 - Expanded & Improved Medicare For All Act[/url]

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013250]Great, cool. So why didn't the democrats fix the current Medicare when they had control? It's easy to say that something is easy to fix, but when they've failed to do it, even with completely control, the easiness doesn't seem so easy anymore.[/QUOTE] Why are you assuming the Democrats are a hivemind? Dems are far less likely to simply fall in line than Republican politicians are so even with full Dem control there's going to be plenty of issues with opposition. And I'm sure they totally could have fixed things with Republicans constantly trying over and over and over to repeal Obamacare and reverse decisions they don't like despite the fact they'd already failed to do so the last twenty times.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013258]Medicare has been growing in cost at a fairly constant rate since the late 1970s.[/QUOTE] Yeah probably because of old people living longer thanks to modern medicine. Was your mind blown by that? [editline]26th March 2017[/editline] Also because of cuts Republicans so desperately want to give it, Medicare becomes even more stressed. We'd eliminate its fiscal problem if we opened up the coverage for it. More healthy people paying in, [I]on a nation wide level[/I], will help lower costs.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013250]Great, cool. So why didn't the democrats fix the current Medicare when they had control? It's easy to say that something is easy to fix, but when they've failed to do it, even with completely control, the easiness doesn't seem so easy anymore.[/QUOTE] because they tried? obamacare was the consiquence of having lost their 60 vote supermajority in the senate. they couldn't change the final bill without running into a filibuster

[QUOTE=Sableye;52013219]the medicare bubble will only last the next twenty years or so then taper off, yes you absolutely can out tax it. we managed to keep social security afloat so far and theres two big generations on it presently[/QUOTE] Wouldn't use social security as an example unless you like the idea of only a few generations getting healthcare and then abruptly no healthcare for the others

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013250]Great, cool. So why didn't the democrats fix the current Medicare when they had control? It's easy to say that something is easy to fix, but when they've failed to do it, even with completely control, the easiness doesn't seem so easy anymore.[/QUOTE] It's not that they couldn't do it, it's that they didn't try to. They went a completely different route trying to keep private sector interests relevant while also providing coverage. And I do not think that way the correct route.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;52013162][img]http://i.imgur.com/BjqpZoa.png[/img][/QUOTE] It's too bad public opinion means jack shit to politicians

[QUOTE=sgman91;52013250]when they had control? even with completely control[/QUOTE] not even close lol do you remember when the republicans were blocking every measure, stripped down the ACA to half what it once was, etc? and today they place the blame on dem's "obamacare" for ruining healthcare when its they intentionally butchered and passed it. this was around the same time as they threw a tantrum at every turn and threatened to shut the government down multiple times (and came close). i havent forgotten

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;52013021]And your buddy Trump cutting Medicare is helping that? I honestly do not see why the idea of a single payer plan is so radical in the United States.[/QUOTE] Two reasons, I figure. Reason 1) Socialism is BAD BAD BAD. They drilled that into the heads of everyone who's currently running the damn country when they were still young. 2) Money is all America cares about and stands for these days. There's no way an industry as large as insurance is going to let the government make them obsolete I figure when the current generation is in power, we MIGHT see a change. But don't hold your breath

Medicare still works though the private healthcare industry, right? Seems like the way to fix it would be to enroll everyone, and make the clinics government run over time. In the meantime, everyone having insurance through the government means that coverage will go up, because they're doing business from the strongest position possible, and because there will be no overhead for profit in the insurance part. The US should be able to spend less than it does now (private and public) and still cover everyone - every other comparable country does it, if the US can't it basically shows a lack of competence.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52013074]The idea of expanding Medicare to everyone is generally unpopular mostly for budgetary reasons, I think. Medicare payouts right now take up some 35%(?) of the annual federal budget. Given the quality of care already afforded to those in the system (what with being denied service by those who can't afford to treat them) it doesn't add up that we'd be able to give everyone that same service AND significantly improved the quality of care without some massive tax hikes. That's where the real problem lies, tax and spending. In my opinion, healthcare plans tend to offer a "pick two" of affordability, quality, or availability. This just doesn't seem like the right combination.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1536670&p=51164289&viewfull=1#post51164289"]You know, I did some calculations back in October of last year.[/URL] I determined that compared to Canada, the cost per covered person of Medicare in the USA was around 760% of what it is in Canada. I've cited my sources and shown my math, you can tell me if I'm wrong. The problem with the USA is that insurance companies and healthcare businesses have no regulations on their pricing. In other words, they're fleecing you people like cattle, and nobody wants to stop them. Want affordable single-payer healthcare for all? Pin those bastards to the ground first. Ask yourself why every other developed western nation on the planet provides some form of single-payer healthcare to their people, but the supposedly richest nation on earth somehow can't afford it.

[QUOTE=Chonch;52013074]The idea of expanding Medicare to everyone is generally unpopular mostly for budgetary reasons, I think. Medicare payouts right now take up some 35%(?) of the annual federal budget. Given the quality of care already afforded to those in the system (what with being denied service by those who can't afford to treat them) it doesn't add up that we'd be able to give everyone that same service AND significantly improved the quality of care without some massive tax hikes. That's where the real problem lies, tax and spending. In my opinion, healthcare plans tend to offer a "pick two" of affordability, quality, or availability. This just doesn't seem like the right combination.[/QUOTE] If you introduce a single payer system then you reduce the costs. Pharmaceutical companies can't charge stupid amounts of money if you say "Well we will only pay you this much and no more, if you don't like it then you can't sell your drug to 330 million people". Right now they can charge stupid amounts of money because insurance companies pay it, and if they don't then it's at the loss of the people on that insurance provider.