Come the fuck on - Pro Russian rebel leaders say they'll abandon the cease fire because Ukraine want
49 replies, posted
I hate Russia as much as the next American. But mindlessly shitting on anything they do doesn't help anyone. Ask yourself, what makes us better than Russia? It's that we don't listen to rhetoric and propaganda, we are critical of ourselves, and we admit when we are wrong. Ever since the start of this conflict, I've seen a whole lot of rhetoric from our side, and a lot of needless lying. That is why it is so hard to get behind the Ukrainian leadership in this war. They lie constantly, and are no better than the Russian leadership ideologically.
We need to stop this. We are better than this.
[QUOTE=gman003-main;47348605]Who says they're refusing to negotiate? The only person I see claiming that is you, and you have no intrinsic trustworthiness. I'll listen to your [b]evidence[/b] but you've still not provided any.[/QUOTE]
The Ukrainian side actually didn't cooperate at all during the conflict.
Key points:
- Refused to hold POW exchanges on many occasions. Showed up with tied up civillians during one exchange and exchanged them for soldiers.
- Rejected every signle ceasefire rebels and Russia proposed. There were many proposals prior to first minsk talks.
- Sent a nobody to almost every peace negotiations. Sending unknown politicians instead of Poroshenko really indicates how little shit they gave about the meetings. Rebels sent Zacharchenko and other important figures. Putin sent very known diplomats.
- Stopping the humanitarian convoys and delaying them even after checking and inspecting them.
- Not giving their info (radar tracking and operator recordings) on MH-17 to the international commitee or anyone.
- Labeling rebels terrorists, cutting essential supplies to major cities, never negotiating with the rebels or even trying to.
- Breaking ceasefires, not doing anything to create the demilitarized zone proposed ages ago to stop city bloc shelling. Yes, rebels are guilty of that too, but it doesn't make Kiev less guilty.
I dont remember a time when Kiev proposed a peacefull solution.
Rebels did propose two. First one was "gib decentralisation and amnesty", second one was "leave us alone".
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;47348737]I hate Russia as much as the next American. But mindlessly shitting on anything they do doesn't help anyone. Ask yourself, what makes us better than Russia? It's that we don't listen to rhetoric and propaganda, we are critical of ourselves, and we admit when we are wrong. Ever since the start of this conflict, I've seen a whole lot of rhetoric from our side, and a lot of needless lying. That is why it is so hard to get behind the Ukrainian leadership in this war. They lie constantly, and are no better than the Russian leadership ideologically.
We need to stop this. We are better than this.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with a U.S. backed take over of Ukraine to be honest. They need a new government.
[QUOTE=Durandal;47348715]Why would the separatists make any concessions to the government? They've been absolutely demolishing the Ukrainian Military and could continue to do so if they really wanted to.[/QUOTE]
Seems more like a stalemate tbh
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47348765]The Ukrainian side actually didn't cooperate at all during the conflict.
Key points:
- Refused to hold POW exchanges on many occasions. Showed up with tied up civillians during one exchange and exchanged them for soldiers.
- Rejected every signle ceasefire rebels and Russia proposed. There were many proposals prior to first minsk talks.
-[b] Sent a nobody to almost every peace negotiations.[/b] Sending unknown politicians instead of Poroshenko really indicates how little shit they gave about the meetings. Rebels sent Zacharchenko and other important figures. Putin sent very known diplomats.
- Stopping the humanitarian convoys and delaying them even after checking and inspecting them.
- Not giving their info (radar tracking and operator recordings) on MH-17 to the international commitee or anyone.
- Labeling rebels terrorists, cutting essential supplies to major cities, never negotiating with the rebels or even trying to.
- Breaking ceasefires, not doing anything to create the demilitarized zone proposed ages ago to stop city bloc shelling. Yes, rebels are guilty of that too, but it doesn't make Kiev less guilty.
I dont remember a time when Kiev proposed a peacefull solution.
Rebels did propose two. First one was "gib decentralisation and amnesty", second one was "leave us alone".[/QUOTE]
I was gonna ignore this for a second but holy hell how is the first President of Ukraine since the USSR collapsed a "no body".
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47348782]I was gonna ignore this for a second but holy hell how is the first President of Ukraine since the USSR collapsed a "no body".[/QUOTE]
Being an Ex-president does not giving him any real political weight or influence in goverment.
His official occupation (that is no joke): pensionary.
Soo yeah, he's close to being a "no body".
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47348782]I was gonna ignore this for a second but holy hell how is the first President of Ukraine since the USSR collapsed a "no body".[/QUOTE]
They sent regional level diplomats and god knows whom many times.
[QUOTE=Fourier;47347730]We know Russians are retarded, nothing new
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racism/shitposting" - Gurant))[/highlight]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racism/shitposting" - Gurant))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
The russophobia is real.
All these poor shills, can't even provide evidence for anything
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;47349185]All these poor shills, can't even provide evidence for anything[/QUOTE]
I know, poor usa shills unable to compete with russia shills.
Kek, if you thing USA "shills" are the ones I'm talking about, look at who has privided more sources
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;47348765]The Ukrainian side actually didn't cooperate at all during the conflict.
Key points:...
- Stopping the humanitarian convoys and delaying them even after checking and inspecting them.
- Not giving their info (radar tracking and operator recordings) on MH-17 to the international commitee or anyone.
.[/QUOTE]
First off, most of those trucks were very suspiciously empty, with entire convoys of a dozen trucks carrying one crate of supplies in well documented cases
Second are you seriously suggesting mh-17 wasn't shot down by the rebels and instead by Ukrainian air force?
that's been proven otherwise by everyone but Russia and their rebels
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;47356897]Kek, if you thing USA "shills" are the ones I'm talking about, look at who has privided more sources[/QUOTE]
Interestingly, in EVERY SINGLE Ukrainian crysis thread it always comes down to almost-exclusively USA flagdogged users crying "shill" at karimatrix and co.
It's like world is indeed comprised of black and white.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47357377]Interestingly, in EVERY SINGLE Ukrainian crysis thread it always comes down to almost-exclusively USA flagdogged users crying "shill" at karimatrix and co.
It's like world is indeed comprised of black and white.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, its with good reason, regurgitating Russia today will get people upset
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47357377]Interestingly, in EVERY SINGLE Ukrainian crysis thread it always comes down to almost-exclusively USA flagdogged users crying "shill" at karimatrix and co.
It's like world is indeed comprised of black and white.[/QUOTE]
Interestingly, in EVERY SINGLE Ukrainian crisis thread you're always mindlessly defending Russia just as hard as they are.
[QUOTE=ImperialGuard;47357564]Interestingly, in EVERY SINGLE Ukrainian crisis thread you're always mindlessly defending Russia just as hard as they are.[/QUOTE]
Oh the irony!
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;47360979]Oh the irony![/QUOTE]
Why do you always have to be the "Hurr Hurr both sides suck" person in every single thread on Ukraine.
I know it's annoying as shit to see people cry "shill" for no reason but it's equally angering when you come into every instance of Ukrainian news just to be "Oh both of you suck", because you aren't contributing anything.
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47361403]Why do you always have to be the "Hurr Hurr both sides suck" person in every single thread on Ukraine.
I know it's annoying as shit to see people cry "shill" for no reason but it's equally angering when you come into every instance of Ukrainian news just to be "Oh both of you suck", because you aren't contributing anything.[/QUOTE]
So you berate posters for being neutral and berate posters for being pro-seperatist/pro-Russian(not sure who is 100% pro russian anyway)/anti-kiev if you will only accept people with the same opinion as yourself you might as well just spend your days reading your own post history.
Heres a link to help you out:
[url]http://facepunch.com/search.php?searchid=6054797[/url]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;47361547]So you berate posters for being neutral and berate posters for being pro-seperatist/pro-Russian(not sure who is 100% pro russian anyway)/anti-kiev if you will only accept people with the same opinion as yourself you might as well just spend your days reading your own post history.
Heres a link to help you out:
[url]http://facepunch.com/search.php?searchid=6054797[/url][/QUOTE]
lol I don't "berate" people like you're saying, I'm literally asking why he has to do this "I'm in the middle, you guys both suck" point of view, which honestly does nothing and is bullshit whenever it's said.
Did you even read the part where I say I detest the shill speak or did you just read the first part and think I was just being a dick for no reason.
Also your link is broken.
[url]http://facepunch.com/search.php?searchid=6054979[/url]
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;47361403]Why do you always have to be the "Hurr Hurr both sides suck" person in every single thread on Ukraine.
I know it's annoying as shit to see people cry "shill" for no reason but it's equally angering when you come into every instance of Ukrainian news just to be "Oh both of you suck", because you aren't contributing anything.[/QUOTE]
I'm the devil's advocate everybody needs. How else am I going to bash on both countries at the same time and not being called a Russian shill?
Seriously, though, I find it always hypocritical that both sides have bloodied history yet dare to criticise on the matters each other, from what my personal experience and knowledge of history gathered is that no matter how well you know your past you still never learn from it (thanks Hegel for wise words). For all I know, in 10-15 years of time, you will be doing same stupid shit Russia does today, albeit to a varying degree of covertness. And when that happens to occur, you will be just as MuffinZerg and karimatrix, and just as any other Israeli in Israel threads will give his point of view and perhaps bring justification and more insight as to what really happens. After all, you do not see the whole picture from your island across the globe and ocean.
Politics are fucking stupid.
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