Most next gen console games will run at 30 FPS according to Carmack - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Matt-;38877933]The swerving left and right, how can you not see the jerky camera?[/QUOTE] The right video isn't 60 fps on Youtube, and it's clearly visible. Youtube limits videos to 30 fps.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;38877706]30 fps is pretty terrible, and the input lag becomes very noticeable in some games.[/QUOTE] Fucking this [B]THIS[/B]

Once you play games at 60 fps and then go back to play a game at 30 fps you notices how utterly stupid shit it is. 60 fps makes you feel immersed. Maybe they think of the way movies are beeing done? Most movies run at around 28 fps currently, now that the hobbit used almost twice of that in the HSV (was it that?) format with 48 fps everyone will be forced to change since now all 28fps movies feel wrong. I don't know but todays industry in games and movies is putting effort into the wrong section [B]mostly[/B] Games are becoming prettier but at the same time less lively, smaller, shorter. Basicly they put in pretty but take out game. Movies are becoming action disasters and effect monsters (prettier) but less lively, interesting, original, creative you know what I mean.

You can start to spot input lag at 50fps, and 30fps is unplayable for me. Then again, these are consoles we're talking about, you're swinging fucking sticks around that don't translate 1:1 to what happens on the screen, so maybe it's not a problem.

[QUOTE=IKTM;38877469]It's not that bad. 30 fps is still quite playable.[/QUOTE] Maybe ten fucking years ago. Jesus Christ what is this, 1850?

Game devs will still be able to make games run 60fps or what ever they want. Thing is, it's not that people "want" it to run at 30 instead of 60. It's that your game can graphically look better or do more when you got more time to process a frame. When you jump from 30 to 60, you got half the time to render your frame. Which mean to you got less time to do other things, like Post Process, lighting, or other rendering passes. Want faster frame rate, lower the accuracy or completely remove one of your fancy effects.

[QUOTE=gjsdeath;38878098]Game devs will still be able to make games run 60fps or what ever they want. Thing is, it's not that people "want" it to run at 30 instead of 60. It's that your game can graphically look better or do more when you got more time to process a frame. When you jump from 30 to 60, you got half the time to render your frame. Which mean to you got less time to do other things, like Post Process, lighting, or other rendering passes. Want faster frame rate, lower the accuracy or completely remove one of your fancy effects.[/QUOTE] I give up as many graphical features as I can to get at least 50 fps. I can live without ambient occlusion or depth of field in return for smooth framerate.

That's an advantage of playing on a PC. You can choose what you want(in most cases). You can drop some graphical effects in favor of others. On a console, the developers have to make a decision that they just hope most people like.

I don't understand how next gen consoles expect to compete with PC gaming if they keep the 30 FPS cap. Hell, some gamers nowadays have 120hz monitors.

[QUOTE=gjsdeath;38878302]That's an advantage of playing on a PC. You can choose what you want(in most cases). You can drop some graphical effects in favor of others. On a console, the developers have to make a decision that they just hope most people like.[/QUOTE] Why can't they add graphics settings to consoles? Have 30 fps for people who want fancy dof while having 60fps with no postfx for fps freaks. I never understood why this wasn't done. How about ability for native 1080p in exchange for some texture quality(but then again, it's already so low...)

30 fps is very playable IMO, the problem is when it's 30fps but ALSO unstable. A game that goes from 30 to 20 often is annoying as fuck. Sometimes I'd just like a 20fps cap and be done with it.

It depends a lot on the games, so I see no reason to believe this.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;38878395]At least the ports will run at a steady 120 fps on pc.[/QUOTE] Sure they will, if you drop all the graphical features or have very high end hardware. [QUOTE=itisjuly;38878448]Why can't they add graphics settings to consoles? Have 30 fps for people who want fancy dof while having 60fps with no postfx for fps freaks. I never understood why this wasn't done. How about ability for native 1080p in exchange for some texture quality(but then again, it's already so low...)[/QUOTE] They can tightly optimize and create content with the predefined graphics settings in mind. If they let us change them, then the level they made that ran at a steady 30/60 FPS before might drop down to unplayable levels, or crash the console(since console games run really close to the hardware). So I'm guessing it's just to make it easier and faster to develop. Also, changing the resolution will effect more than just the "texture" quality. Especially if the game uses deferred rendering.... [QUOTE=borisvdb;38878359]I don't understand how next gen consoles expect to compete with PC gaming if they keep the 30 FPS cap.[/QUOTE] Of course graphically they can't in the long run with high-end gaming PCs. But they do have several advantages that keep them doing quite well: -Development --One hardware set per console --Closer access to the actual hardware --If it works on one xbox, it works on all of them. --Less overhead(no huge inflated OS to deal with) --Cheaper because less time spent debugging thousands of driver and hardware sets --Much more difficult to pirate, though PC piracy rates are not looked at in the proper light -Customer --Cheaper, console are sold for less than the hardware is worth, as money is returned via games --Easier, No stupid drivers to manage, no figuring out what you did to your OS that now breaks the game --User friendly, throw a disc in and it plays. No compatibility issues, no installs, it just works. Consoles can definitely compete. And they have been, for the reasons above and more. I don't think a faster framerate trumps everything stated above. Not saying they are "better", cause that really depends on what aspect you look at. And no worries, I'm sure the next COD on the Xbox 720 will be 120FPS!

[QUOTE=Matt-;38877756][video=youtube;GqHz3a-u0l0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqHz3a-u0l0[/video] ( The cars accelerate and decelerate faster and slower due to the cap, but pay no attention to that. Notice when it swerves left and right, that's why we need 60fps. )[/QUOTE] Keep in midn there's a huge technological difference between a monitor and a tv and how it handles frames.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;38878944]Keep in midn there's a huge technological difference between a monitor and a tv and how it handles frames.[/QUOTE] Not really. Unless we're talking about those "120Hz+" TVs that just interpolate frames.

[QUOTE=borisvdb;38878359]I don't understand how next gen consoles expect to compete with PC gaming if they keep the 30 FPS cap.[/QUOTE] Because if a $500 console is running the game at 30FPS, a $800 PC running with the same settings and resolution will probably run at 30FPS too. Consoles are much better optimized. For a given hardware level, they'll get better framerates. Most people get higher framerates on PC because they either have top-of-the-line hardware or are running at a lower resolution than 1920x1080.

Next generation of consoles will be pretty much the same as these but look better, gaming mechanics will be little improved if not entirely worse Good luck

I only play at 45+ fps.

[QUOTE=borisvdb;38878359]I don't understand how next gen consoles expect to compete with PC gaming if they keep the 30 FPS cap. Hell, some gamers nowadays have 120hz monitors.[/QUOTE] As a PC guy with a 120Hz monitor, I can tell you that I never want to go back down to 60Hz Have a crap port with unplayable input latency (dead space)? Suddenly playable! It also gives you a massive advantage in online games Most people call bullshit about the difference between 60 -> 120hz, but frankly the difference is almost as stark as 30 -> 60

[QUOTE=gjsdeath;38878772] Of course graphically they can't in the long run with high-end gaming PCs. But they do have several advantages that keep them doing quite well: -Development --One hardware set per console --Closer access to the actual hardware --If it works on one xbox, it works on all of them. --Less overhead(no huge inflated OS to deal with) --Cheaper because less time spent debugging thousands of driver and hardware sets --Much more difficult to pirate, though PC piracy rates are not looked at in the proper light -Customer --Cheaper, console are sold for less than the hardware is worth, as money is returned via games --Easier, No stupid drivers to manage, no figuring out what you did to your OS that now breaks the game --User friendly, throw a disc in and it plays. No compatibility issues, no installs, it just works. Consoles can definitely compete. And they have been, for the reasons above and more. I don't think a faster framerate trumps everything stated above. Not saying they are "better", cause that really depends on what aspect you look at. And no worries, I'm sure the next COD on the Xbox 720 will be 120FPS![/QUOTE] At some point even console users are going to want to see some improvement in the graphical fidelity of their games. It doesn't take a genius to manage drivers either. They even auto detect you gpu and have presets for graphics options. As for the 120hz, not every game is going to be crysis level graphics. You can easily run source games over 60 fps. I will agree about the development interest however.

[QUOTE=Matt-;38877756][video=youtube;GqHz3a-u0l0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqHz3a-u0l0[/video] ( The cars accelerate and decelerate faster and slower due to the cap, but pay no attention to that. Notice when it swerves left and right, that's why we need 60fps. )[/QUOTE] OH MY YOU ARE COMPARING THIS ON YOUTUBE! OH GOD THE DIFFERENCE 30 fps vs 60 (oh wait) youtube can only go up to 35 fps.

quit spergin yall 30fps is fine. you have autism if you think you can tell the difference.

Not surprising in the slightest you can have a better looking game that is easier to market or a game that feels better to play (though most won't even be able to tell why) that doesn't looks good.

I need at least 120 LOL just playing my system on Black Ops only goes to 40

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;38879481]quit spergin yall 30fps is fine. you have autism if you think you can tell the difference.[/QUOTE] ^^ Someone who has not seen anything higher than 30 fps ^^ Also seems to be the most banned guy on fp.

Constant 30fps isn't that bad for games that don't rely on precise timing or skill. When you get to the most fast paced games that require precision timing, such as fighting games/beat em ups/hack and slash where you have to hit a button within a 2 frame timespan 60fps really is a necessity.

Unless I'm mistaken, most console games today run at 30-45 FPS. [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] If you think anything less than 60 is fine for an FPS you have no idea how shooters work.

Wasn't expecting developers to sacrifice other things for a higher framerate. [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Raidyr;38879624]Unless I'm mistaken, most console games today run at 30-45 FPS. [editline]18th December 2012[/editline] If you think anything less than 60 is fine for an FPS you have no idea how shooters work.[/QUOTE] Very little console games run above 30fps. The only one's I know of that aren't arcade titles are fighting games, some racing games, a couple of hack n slash games, and Call of Duty. And 30 FPS is fine as a minimum unless you're playing some Quake-like shooter. I never noticed much of an impact when playing CS on a laptop. It'll be an improvement if they manage to run games at 30fps with no dips. Console makers need to make sure that they include a lot of RAM this time. Microsoft almost went with 256mb for the 360 but Cliffy B. convinced them otherwise so he says because it wasn't enough for Gears of War. I hope the WiiU doesn't encourage weak specs.

hahaha you guys are ridiculous, pretty much all console games run at 30fps Try playing any game on a PAL non-HD console, that's always in 25fps and completely playable. Saying 30fps is unplayable is mostly a placebo effect just because of the erections you guys get when watching your fps counters rise, gameplay-wise it's not much of a difference

[QUOTE=Eric95;38880028]hahaha you guys are ridiculous, pretty much all console games run at 30fps Try playing any game on a PAL non-HD console, that's always in 25fps and completely playable. Saying 30fps is unplayable is mostly a placebo effect just because of the erections you guys get when watching your fps counters rise, gameplay-wise it's not much of a difference[/QUOTE] More console fanboys enter. Gameplay wise I can be the most terrible player at 30 fps and the greatest of them all at 120. This is only with people playing on pc because if you were to give the framerate to the console players they would still have the longest reaction time and the worst accuracy so it would not matter.