• Eleven-Year-Old Boy Shot By Younger Brother, Dies
    134 replies, posted
Oh my lol, You guys realize, even if you ban guns, someone is gonna' eventually sneak some in anyways. Because if you're not caught it's legal always. Edit: [QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;36190720]Already had my thoughts[/QUOTE] My god man, you are the best.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;36184525]Guns were invented with the sole purpose of making a hole in something to kill it in war. Golf obviously wasn't invented to kill people, it's just a game. America seriously needs to move on, there's no wild west Texan duels and civil wars any more - nobody needs a gun. The only reason it's still popular is because people there think it gives them some manliness when they hold a gun. The fact is, if guns were illegal for citizens there this boy wouldn't have died and you'd have less gun crime like [B]Europe[/B].[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44234000/gif/_44234517_gun_crime_4161.gif[/IMG] [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] Belgium it's self beats the US, and thats not even counting ALL of Europe. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] And before you go well thats not strictly on guns only, doesnt matter murder is murder. If someone really wants to kill someone else, they will find a way.
While I Can't explain the fluctuation in Belgium, the US' murder rate is still about five times higher than Germany and Denmark. Denmark is a very small country, but Germany has a population of ~85 million. So even though you can argue that the US is lower than Belgium, it scores higher than Bulgaria, and much higher than most European countries. I'd argue that the life standard in Bulgaria is lower than in the US, and therefore I find that some other factor must be the cause here. If you think I'm insinuating that it's guns, that's what I'm doing, though there's probably some other explanation as well.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;36188097]Of course. Our cultures are extremely different in terms of civil rights. As an American, I believe that right to own firearms is extremely important as a basic human right. When certain groups, like the United Nations or China, suggest banning firearms in the United States, I feel extremely offended. For me, and many like-minded Americans, banning firearms would almost be on the same level as banning free-speech or the right to protest.[/QUOTE] In the Netherlands, people aren't allowed to have a gun unless you're 18, mentally stable and have proven to handle guns with care, afaik. A lot of people, especially the government itself, don't treat owning firearms as a basic human right because they're afraid of having another Alphen aan de Rein (6 killed by psychopatric asshole who got through the screening). I don't consider it a basic human right either. Why should it be? I'm very jealous of not being able to own a gun so easily like in the US, but saying guns are a basic human right seems a little far-fetched for me.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;36190892][IMG]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44234000/gif/_44234517_gun_crime_4161.gif[/IMG] [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] Belgium it's self beats the US, and thats not even counting ALL of Europe. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] And before you go well thats not strictly on guns only, doesnt matter murder is murder. If someone really wants to kill someone else, they will find a way.[/QUOTE] Out-dated and you can't compare one tiny country to USA. Try looking at Europe v USA. Intentional homicide rates per 100,000 population by region 2004 2010 North America 6.5 4.7 West and Central Europe 1.5 1.2 Infact when you look at a real source the homicides by firearm per 100,000 is 0.6, and Belgium Number of homicides by firearm 59 United Kingdom Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population Number of homicides by firearm 49 Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population 0.1 I don't see how you can even begin arguing that citizens owning guns doesn't affect crime rates with guns - the facts are all there, and common sense also says that if guns were removed from the population there would be less crimes with them. Now before you go "OOOOOOOOHHhohohoh well we can't just remove [i]allllll[/i] the guns!" well no, obviously not - hence why the UK still has some gun crime. But take another look at the statistics above and try arguing that again.
I like how the average facepunch user is normally very left of the political spectrum, but when the topic of gun control comes up suddenly everyone unleashes their inner redneck and they'll fight to the death to protect their guns from obama bin laden.
[QUOTE=Sh33p;36192299]I like how the average facepunch user is normally very left of the political spectrum, but when the topic of gun control comes up suddenly everyone unleashes their inner redneck and they'll fight to the death to protect their guns from obama bin laden.[/QUOTE] We've had a pretty civil discussion so far, so there's no reason to call people out. I understand people's obsessions with guns, but I really can't relate to the basic right mindset. It's simply too far from what I'm used to.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;36192267]Out-dated and you can't compare one tiny country to USA. Try looking at Europe v USA. Intentional homicide rates per 100,000 population by region 2004 2010 North America 6.5 4.7 West and Central Europe 1.5 1.2 Infact when you look at a real source the homicides by firearm per 100,000 is 0.6, and Belgium Number of homicides by firearm 59 United Kingdom Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population Number of homicides by firearm 49 Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population 0.1 I don't see how you can even begin arguing that citizens owning guns doesn't affect crime rates with guns - the facts are all there, and common sense also says that if guns were removed from the population there would be less crimes with them. Now before you go "OOOOOOOOHHhohohoh well we can't just remove [i]allllll[/i] the guns!" well no, obviously not - hence why the UK still has some gun crime. But take another look at the statistics above and try arguing that again.[/QUOTE] you are honestly retarded if you think the SOLE reason why the homicide rate in the US is so fucking high is solely because of guns. Have you ever thought to get through your thick skull that maybe population density is a fuck ton higher in the US, meaning more crime? [B]Guns are not the fucking cause of murder, crime is.[/B] If you think that the government should remove guns from the people to magically lower the crime and murder rate, once again you are retarded. Like I said earlier, if people really want to kill someone then they will use whatever they have whether it be a gun or a knife.And I would love for you Angrychair to tell millions of people to just throw their guns away and not to get mad. and do you have a source backing that up or are you pulling that out of your ass?
We should ban kitchen knives and plastic cutlery because they can be used to kill.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;36193237]you are honestly retarded if you think the SOLE reason why the homicide rate in the US is so fucking high is solely because of guns. Have you ever thought to get through your thick skull that maybe population density is a fuck ton higher in the US, meaning more crime? [B]Guns are not the fucking cause of murder, crime is.[/B] If you think that the government should remove guns from the people to magically lower the crime and murder rate, once again you are retarded. Like I said earlier, if people really want to kill someone then they will use whatever they have whether it be a gun or a knife.And I would love for you Angrychair to tell millions of people to just throw their guns away and not to get mad. and do you have a source backing that up or are you pulling that out of your ass?[/QUOTE] While you're right that there definitely are other factors than just guns, citing population density isn't really the next big thing. There lives ~32 people per km^2 in the US, and 130 in Denmark. Japan is of course a much better country to compare to, as the size is much more alike and they have cities that can compare in size. Numbers from 1990 (pretty old, but they show some sort of picture) says that 1.1 person was killed per 100,000 people. The US number in 1990 was 8.7 - England's number was 1.03. I think this shows that there's a tendency in the United States that can't solely be attributed to population density. The fact that you attack his intelligence using a factor that can't really be accounted for makes you as retarded as he is. If you had cited the composition of the demographic and the fairly large class differences in the US, I might be more inclined to agree. And lastly, he didn't say the SOLE reason was that guns are publically available - he argued that citizens owning guns [I]affect[/I] the crime rate. There's a clear difference. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Recurracy;36193616]We should ban kitchen knives and plastic cutlery because they can be used to kill.[/QUOTE] They can also be used to cook food, consume food, and generally plastic cutlery isn't that effective at killing people. Knives are generally a better choice, but still far from as lethal as guns. When was the last time you cut out your food with a gun? The argument is stupid.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36193627]While you're right that there definitely are other factors than just guns, citing population density isn't really the next big thing. There lives ~32 people per km^2 in the US, and 130 in Denmark. Japan is of course a much better country to compare to, as the size is much more alike and they have cities that can compare in size. Numbers from 1990 (pretty old, but they show some sort of picture) says that 1.1 person was killed per 100,000 people. The US number in 1990 was 8.7 - England's number was 1.03. I think this shows that there's a tendency in the United States that can't solely be attributed to population density. The fact that you attack his intelligence using a factor that can't really be accounted for makes you as retarded as he is. If you had cited the composition of the demographic and the fairly large class differences in the US, I might be more inclined to agree. And lastly, he didn't say the SOLE reason was that guns are publically available - he argued that citizens owning guns [I]affect[/I] the crime rate. There's a clear difference. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] They can also be used to cook food, consume food, and generally plastic cutlery isn't that effective at killing people. Knives are generally a better choice, but still far from as lethal as guns. When was the last time you cut out your food with a gun? The argument is stupid.[/QUOTE] I hate to tell you but apparently you dont know AngryChair and calling him retarded is the lightest thing you can say to him. And I love how you point out 1990 in the US when that was the massive crime spree era that eventually died down in the late 90s. Again guns dont kill people, people kill people.
[QUOTE=codemaster85;36193987]I hate to tell you but apparently you dont know AngryChair and calling him retarded is the lightest thing you can say to him. And I love how you point out 1990 in the US when that was the massive crime spree era that eventually died down in the late 90s. Again guns dont kill people, people kill people.[/QUOTE] I'm well aware of that AngryChair is retarded, but if you have to use that to invalidate his argument, you're not doing it properly. The data I found was from 1990, just got some more recent: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate[/url] Paints the same picture, though not [I]as[/I] bad. And in this case it wasn't people killing people intentionally. The child wasn't dead if the firearm wasn't there. That's like saying lots of the accidents in the industrialization was not the outcome of unsafe machines, but rather uneducated people - I'd argue that it's both. And you can't fault a small child of not learning gunsafety, it's seems that his own familiy didn't use guns.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36193627]They can also be used to cook food, consume food, and generally plastic cutlery isn't that effective at killing people. Knives are generally a better choice, but still far from as lethal as guns. When was the last time you cut out your food with a gun? The argument is stupid.[/QUOTE] If you didn't know, guns are used for target shooting as well as for competitions. They're also used for hunting, and for self-defense.
Gun control doesn't stop crime. As i'm aware, its purpose is to lower crimes that are associated with guns so you have potentially less crime related homocides.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36191937]While I Can't explain the fluctuation in Belgium, the US' murder rate is still about five times higher than Germany and Denmark. Denmark is a very small country, but Germany has a population of ~85 million. So even though you can argue that the US is lower than Belgium, it scores higher than Bulgaria, and much higher than most European countries. I'd argue that the life standard in Bulgaria is lower than in the US, and therefore I find that some other factor must be the cause here. If you think I'm insinuating that it's guns, that's what I'm doing, though there's probably some other explanation as well.[/QUOTE] It's not guns. It's our poverty rate. We need to raise the minimum wage and tax the shit out of the highest few tax brackets to fund some civil works projects. The fact that our country was founded by religious zealots probably doesn't help, either. Oh, and the fact that we actually have to deal with the relations between [i]different ethnic groups[/i], unlike Europe. That's probably a huge factor. We're a country that's made up entirely of immigrants. It's incredible that we get along as well as we do.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;36192267] I don't see how you can even begin arguing that citizens owning guns doesn't affect crime rates with guns - the facts are all there, and common sense also says that if guns were removed from the population there would be less crimes with them. Now before you go "OOOOOOOOHHhohohoh well we can't just remove [i]allllll[/i] the guns!" well no, obviously not - hence why the UK still has some gun crime. But take another look at the statistics above and try arguing that again.[/QUOTE] AngryChairR do you even know anything about America? About how many guns are actually here? This country is saturated in guns. The only thing outlawing them will accomplish is making civilians defenseless against criminals with guns and making a whole new very lucrative business for criminals selling guns. The only thing this will do in America is empower criminals. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] Believe me I wish stopping all violent crime in America was as simple as just waving a magic wand and making all guns disappear but that simply isn't possible with the gun saturation and the gun culture, and it is annoying that if people like you had the power you would ignore all these problems and just go ahead and do something that will only cause harm.
Interesting note: It is harder to legally obtain a firearm in Mexico then it is the US. And you see how it works down there.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;36194073]If you didn't know, guns are used for target shooting as well as for competitions. They're also used for hunting, and for self-defense.[/QUOTE] I can't even fathom why you think that you can somehow justify your ridiculous comparison by citing target shooting and competetions. Are these things you use in your daily life? What would you rather - loose the target shooting competetions or the ability to cut whatever food you got yourself? And we don't live in the stoneage - there's a super market just round the corner. And even then, I'm not talking about banning hunting (and even then this is completely hypothetical) - hunting is allowed in Denmark. Every person ever don't go hunting, though, and they don't need a machine gun or a normal pistol to do that - generally you use rifles and shotguns. At least to my understanding.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36199484]I can't even fathom why you think that you can somehow justify your ridiculous comparison by citing target shooting and competetions. Are these things you use in your daily life? What would you rather - loose the target shooting competetions or the ability to cut whatever food you got yourself? And we don't live in the stoneage - there's a super market just round the corner. And even then, I'm not talking about banning hunting (and even then this is completely hypothetical) - hunting is allowed in Denmark. Every person ever don't go hunting, though, and they don't need a machine gun or a normal pistol to do that - generally you use rifles and shotguns. At least to my understanding.[/QUOTE] Here's a question Have you actually handled a real firearm before?
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36199484]I can't even fathom why you think that you can somehow justify your ridiculous comparison by citing target shooting and competetions. Are these things you use in your daily life? What would you rather - loose the target shooting competetions or the ability to cut whatever food you got yourself? And we don't live in the stoneage - there's a super market just round the corner. And even then, I'm not talking about banning hunting (and even then this is completely hypothetical) - hunting is allowed in Denmark. Every person ever don't go hunting, though, and they don't need a machine gun or a normal pistol to do that - generally you use rifles and shotguns. At least to my understanding.[/QUOTE] Careful now, you're starting to cease to make any sense. Are you telling me that gun control should be instated because people don't hunt, and not everyone shoots for fun? Well I hate to break it to you, but people [i]do[/i] hunt, and they [i]do[/i] shoot for recreation. These are activities millions of people do every day, and you feel it's right to take that from them in the name of trying to prevent crime by disarming a law-abiding population?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36199532]Here's a question Have you actually handled a real firearm before?[/QUOTE] Of course I haven't - but that's not the point. People don't [I]need[/I] to hunt (and even then I suggest that it should be completely legal), but people generally need knives to cook food. One is something you do for fun, the other is something that is essential to most people's lives. [editline]5th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;36207643]Careful now, you're starting to cease to make any sense. Are you telling me that gun control should be instated because people don't hunt, and not everyone shoots for fun? Well I hate to break it to you, but people [i]do[/i] hunt, and they [i]do[/i] shoot for recreation. These are activities millions of people do every day, and you feel it's right to take that from them in the name of trying to prevent crime by disarming a law-abiding population?[/QUOTE] If you actually read the context you would see that I'm talking about something very different. The guy was arguing that if you ban guns you have to ban knives as well, and I hate to break it to you, but that's a completely ridiculous claim. I'm not saying gun control should be instated (I'm not even saying that it should, 'cause it probably wouldn't work practically in the US) because people hunt. I'm saying that hunting isn't very impotant compared to knives, and as such his comparison was totally out in the woods.
[QUOTE=AngryChairR;36184013]Oh look another death that wouldn't have happened if America would stop living in the 18th century owning guns. They aren't fun, not for a hobby, sport or anything. They're for police and military and that's all. When will that backwards country learn..[/QUOTE] You have no idea how much fun it is to shoot targets with friends and such.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36208187]You have no idea how much fun it is to shoot targets with friends and such.[/QUOTE] I personally do have an idea of it, and it's not something I want to remove. I would like to make that clear. It seems that most of the posts that argue against what I'm saying stems from that they think I hate guns and don't want people to have fun. That's not what I'm saying. At all.
[QUOTE=Sh33p;36192299]I like how the average facepunch user is normally very left of the political spectrum, but when the topic of gun control comes up suddenly everyone unleashes their inner redneck and they'll fight to the death to protect their guns from obama bin laden.[/QUOTE] Well considering everyone over here in America has guns as long as anyone remembers, that's no surprise. [editline]5th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36208226]I personally do have an idea of it, and it's not something I want to remove. I would like to make that clear. It seems that most of the posts that argue against what I'm saying stems from that they think I hate guns and don't want people to have fun. That's not what I'm saying. At all.[/QUOTE] I do think it would be good to create some mandatory course in schools at a young age so stuff like this doesn't happen.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36208256]Well considering everyone over here in America has guns as long as anyone remembers, that's no surprise. [editline]5th June 2012[/editline] I do think it would be good to create some mandatory course in schools at a young age so stuff like this doesn't happen.[/QUOTE] And this is pretty much where we part. I don't think it's a bad idea, but the fact that it's neccessary to learn a 6-year old gun safety makes me cringe a bit. People that don't own guns shoudn't be affected by the fact that other people do. Stricter laws on guns is pretty much what I think would help, if it wouldn't be so hard to implement in the US.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36208292]And this is pretty much where we part. I don't think it's a bad idea, but the fact that it's neccessary to learn a 6-year old gun safety makes me cringe a bit. People that don't own guns shoudn't be affected by the fact that other people do. Stricter laws on guns is pretty much what I think would help, if it wouldn't be so hard to implement in the US.[/QUOTE] thats incredibly stupid. its much better to educate all children about guns then it is to just take the guns away from the people who have been entrusted with them. your not going to stop the criminals from having guns, what if a kid finds one some robber chucked in a bush to avoid getting caught? you could end up with the same situation as this article.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36208292]And this is pretty much where we part. I don't think it's a bad idea, but the fact that it's neccessary to learn a 6-year old gun safety makes me cringe a bit. People that don't own guns shoudn't be affected by the fact that other people do. Stricter laws on guns is pretty much what I think would help, if it wouldn't be so hard to implement in the US.[/QUOTE] It would require next to no effort to teach a kid the basic functions and safe handling of a gun.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36208292]And this is pretty much where we part. I don't think it's a bad idea, but the fact that it's neccessary to learn a 6-year old gun safety makes me cringe a bit. People that don't own guns shoudn't be affected by the fact that other people do. Stricter laws on guns is pretty much what I think would help, if it wouldn't be so hard to implement in the US.[/QUOTE] I was taught on basic firearms safety at 7 years old. Look at what a vicious murderer I became.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36208958]It would require next to no effort to teach a kid the basic functions and safe handling of a gun.[/QUOTE] As I said, it's not a bad idea, I just find the concept of it wrong. Sorry, but that's my views. I'm not saying that it's practical, just that I would find it much better that way. [editline]5th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;36208995]I was taught on basic firearms safety at 7 years old. Look at what a vicious murderer I became.[/QUOTE] That has nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think people get to be vicious murderers because of them learning how to handle a gun, it's simply the thing that there's actually a need for it.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36209006]As I said, it's not a bad idea, I just find the concept of it wrong. Sorry, but that's my views. I'm not saying that it's practical, just that I would find it much better that way.[/QUOTE] Im sorry, but there really isn't an excuse for not teaching a kid this. [url]http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp[/url] It would take about an hour to explain it. And the concept of it is that little kids will know that they are dangerous and not to mess with them. Guns aren't the problem but the lack of education concerning guns is.
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