• Eleven-Year-Old Boy Shot By Younger Brother, Dies
    134 replies, posted
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36209006] That has nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think people get to be vicious murderers because of them learning how to handle a gun, it's simply the thing that there's actually a need for it.[/QUOTE] Shit I quoted the wrong person, sorry, ignore that
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36209041]Im sorry, but there really isn't an excuse for not teaching a kid this. [url]http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp[/url] It would take about an hour to explain it. And the concept of it is that little kids will know that they are dangerous and not to mess with them. Guns aren't the problem but the lack of education concerning guns is.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I agree that it's the best solution, but it doesn't fit into the view I have of how society should be built up. It's purely ideology, not realpolitik.
How exactly do you think that a society should be built up then? Not trying to sound rude. Also, the NRA sight didn't say to assume all guns were loaded, that's dumb.
[QUOTE=Jetblack357;36209092]How exactly do you think that a society should be built up then? Not trying to sound rude. Also, the NRA sight didn't say to assume all guns were loaded, that's dumb.[/QUOTE] I'm of course a Danish idealist, and I find that the system we use here works rather well. It's not perfect at all, but the social gaps aren' that big, most people have no trouble getting by, people are well educated and crime is a not a very major problem. Of course we're still pissed on our politicians, police and many other aspects of the society, but I think most people wouldn't have it any other way. And we don't have the badshit insane candidates that you've got in the US. I would like a more green profile, but we're doing fairly well compared to many other countries. Sadly still not enough.
I find it pretty sad that every-time there's an accident involving a firearm, anti-gun activists use the incident as fuel to further their own agendas. When a man dies of alcohol poisoning, do you see people trying to ban beer? When a man crashes on a motorcycle, do you see people try and ban motorcycles?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;36209191]I find it pretty sad that every-time there's an accident involving a firearm, anti-gun activists use the incident as fuel to further their own agendas. When a man dies of alcohol poisoning, do you see people trying to ban beer? When a man crashes on a motorcycle, do you see people try and ban motorcycles?[/QUOTE] I'd say no matter what accident we're looking at someone's pushing an agenda. Haven't we got road safety campaigns running constantly? Politicians are making beer more expensive, and harder to get for young people (you're even looking at an age of 21 in the US - it's 16 in Denmark). You ahve to admit, though, that while guns are fun an all - they [I]are[/I] dangerous, so I'd say saying that they're pushing some sort of malicious agenda is just trying to play it down. It's horrible when it happens, and while a ban most probably won't work (look at when they tried to ban alcohol), you can't fault someone to think that harsher control would be a good thing. Actually I'm surprised the US is talking more about gay marriage and Obama's brth certificate than the gun laws. It might just be me not hearing much from the US, but that's the picture I get.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36209278]you can't fault someone to think that harsher control would be a good thing.[/QUOTE] I bet you don't even realize how much control there already is. I just got my pistol permit and it took about a year (I live in NY) I had to fill out 2 3 page forms (two copies) Both needed at least FOUR references that needed to be signed in-front of a registered notary I then had to take them and have my picture taken and a background check preformed. I had to wait a while for a judge to look at my form I had to go see the judge in person and have him ask me questions as to why i needed a permit and such When i finally was approved i had to be background checked again when i went to buy a gun. The gun i bought had to be shot at the factory or the store to get its markings and be entered into a database so it can be tracked if it is used in a crime. Another background check after I bought it. 2 pages of papers needed to be filled out. The pistol I own can only hold 10 rounds, its made for 15 but NY and CA laws forbid larger sizes. California is even worse with some of its laws. The point is 99% of gun crime in the us happens with Illegal guns. Guns that were stolen from owners or just illegally imported. The only way to accidents involving children and guns is education.
[QUOTE=ac/14;36209439]I bet you don't even realize how much control there already is. I just got my pistol permit and it took about a year (I live in NY) I had to fill out 2 3 page forms (two copies) Both needed at least FOUR references that needed to be signed in-front of a registered notary I then had to take them and have my picture taken and a background check preformed. I had to wait a while for a judge to look at my form I had to go see the judge in person and have him ask me questions as to why i needed a permit and such When i finally was approved i had to be background checked again when i went to buy a gun. The gun i bought had to be shot at the factory or the store to get its markings and be entered into a database so it can be tracked if it is used in a crime. Another background check after I bought it. 2 pages of papers needed to be filled out. The pistol I own can only hold 10 rounds, its made for 15 but NY and CA laws forbid larger sizes. California is even worse with some of its laws. The point is 99% of gun crime in the us happens with Illegal guns. Guns that were stolen from owners or just illegally imported. The only way to accidents involving children and guns is education.[/QUOTE] I don't know much about gun laws, but from looking at Wikipedia it seems that NY has got some of the strictest. I that was how it was everywhere, sure, they seem harsh enough, but it doesn't seem so.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36209511]I don't know much about gun laws, but from looking at Wikipedia it seems that NY has got some of the strictest. I that was how it was everywhere, sure, they seem harsh enough, but it doesn't seem so.[/QUOTE] I'd be more for gun control if the laws that were being put in place weren't retarded. Laws such as 922r, or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_microstamping]the ridiculous idea of serial number engraving.[/url] Give me an example of a firearm law that could supposedly cut down on crime while not being utterly moronic.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36208016]Of course I haven't - but that's not the point. People don't [I]need[/I] to hunt (and even then I suggest that it should be completely legal), but people generally need knives to cook food. One is something you do for fun, the other is something that is essential to most people's lives. [editline]5th June 2012[/editline] If you actually read the context you would see that I'm talking about something very different. The guy was arguing that if you ban guns you have to ban knives as well, and I hate to break it to you, but that's a completely ridiculous claim. I'm not saying gun control should be instated (I'm not even saying that it should, 'cause it probably wouldn't work practically in the US) because people hunt. I'm saying that hunting isn't very impotant compared to knives, and as such his comparison was totally out in the woods.[/QUOTE] Some people LIKE to hunt, I know I do, cooking your own food that you know hasn't been fucked with by chemicals, preservatives, and what ever other shit a lot of meat has in it. You've obviously never, and probably never will handle a firearm, so you can't say there is no need for this and that. Gun control is something people don't like here that much either, a part of our declaration of rights is that virtually any citizen can own guns for self defense, except felons. It helps first off, because criminals will be less willing to break in and get shot, yes crime still happens, but we have 330 million people in the US. Most people live in the eat and west coast, so it's crowded. People like being able to buy firearms with no trouble, and yes, some crazy dickweeds get them and commit crimes. If guns were banned, they would simply buy them illegally. About hunting....in your above post, why in the hell would you think people use machine guns to hunt? It's meant to be a quick clean kill, not blasting them apart and ruining the meat. Do some more research about American gun culture.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;36219586]Some people LIKE to hunt, I know I do, cooking your own food that you know hasn't been fucked with by chemicals, preservatives, and what ever other shit a lot of meat has in it. You've obviously never, and probably never will handle a firearm, so you can't say there is no need for this and that. Gun control is something people don't like here that much either, a part of our declaration of rights is that virtually any citizen can own guns for self defense, except felons. It helps first off, because criminals will be less willing to break in and get shot, yes crime still happens, but we have 330 million people in the US. Most people live in the eat and west coast, so it's crowded. People like being able to buy firearms with no trouble, and yes, some crazy dickweeds get them and commit crimes. If guns were banned, they would simply buy them illegally. About hunting....in your above post, why in the hell would you think people use machine guns to hunt? It's meant to be a quick clean kill, not blasting them apart and ruining the meat. Do some more research about American gun culture.[/QUOTE] That's why I said that people, [I]probably[/I] wouldn't need machine guns for hunting. "Cooking your own food"... that's precisely what I was fucking talking about. Being able to cook food. I don't think you read the post that this discussion stemmed from, so i'm going to quote it: [QUOTE=Recurracy;36193616]We should ban kitchen knives and plastic cutlery because they can be used to kill.[/QUOTE] Cooking without knives sucks. That's what I'm fucking talking about. You might say "well goddamn that's a stupid discussion", and it damn well is. But I didn't fucking make such a stupid argument, and it's been used 3 times throughout this thread. I'm not a fucking dictator saying what you can like and not like - I enjoy using various weapons, bows, swords, spears and air pellet guns(?), but they aren't [I]necessities.[/I] What do you generally need to use in your life - a knife. So let's recap: Guns: Not essential to your daily life. Knives: Pretty fucking essential in your daily life. I really don't know how it from that ridiculous post to this, but apparently it did. I think it's fairly clear that I'm not arguing the same things that you guys are, and I think all of our stupid arguing stems from that.
[QUOTE=James*;36183583]The difference is these things aren't specifically designed to kill people[/QUOTE] A lot of knives are made to kill people. A lot of cars are made to kill people. A lot of rocks can be made to kill people. Hands really can't unless you're the dude from Terminator 2. [editline]6th June 2012[/editline] Fucking hell if I tried I could get an illegally obtained gun for fucking cheap. Lets say I was a criminal, and there was gun control. I now have the power to go around robbing and shooting people because nobody else has a gun.
[QUOTE=Webby2020;36222483]A lot of knives are made to kill people. A lot of cars are made to kill people. A lot of rocks can be made to kill people. Hands really can't unless you're the dude from Terminator 2. [editline]6th June 2012[/editline] Fucking hell if I tried I could get an illegally obtained gun for fucking cheap. Lets say I was a criminal, and there was gun control. I now have the power to go around robbing and shooting people because nobody else has a gun.[/QUOTE] This is the fourth time this argument has been made, and it's as ridiculous as the first time. And about the last part - look at fucking Denmark. Or rest of Europe. Japan. Where fucking ever. It's not the case - criminals don't just go around killing people, they generally want to take their shit. If they can get away without killing anybody, they probably want to.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36223036]This is the fourth time this argument has been made, and it's as ridiculous as the first time. And about the last part - look at fucking Denmark. Or rest of Europe. Japan. Where fucking ever. It's not the case - criminals don't just go around killing people, they generally want to take their shit. If they can get away without killing anybody, they probably want to.[/QUOTE] So you can tell what every criminal is going to do? No, you dont fucking know what someone is going to do when they break in your house. How do you know they aren't there to torture you horribly, cripple you, deform your body, or something else fucked up and depraved? You don't, which is a good reason to have a lethal form of self-defense. You don't have to worry about stuff like that as much most likely. You're trying to make gun control look good, when it just gives more power to criminals.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;36223223]So you can tell what every criminal is going to do? No, you dont fucking know what someone is going to do when they break in your house. How do you know they aren't there to torture you horribly, cripple you, deform your body, or something else fucked up and depraved? You don't, which is a good reason to have a lethal form of self-defense. You don't have to worry about stuff like that as much most likely. You're trying to make gun control look good, when it just gives more power to criminals.[/QUOTE] I can't tell what every criminal is going to do, and I personally don't think that i made it seem that way. Words like "just", "Generally" and "probably" are "soft" words - they make it somewhat clear that this isn't extremes, and some cases will probably (there's that word again) sway away from said prediction. Let me explain myself: When people get pressured they generally get more desperate. This is most easily shown by looking at very poor countries like Somalia and so on - people are driven to extremes, for example piracy, or simply killing for money. If a person is intimidated (take you for example) they want to protect themselves, and so they get a gun. Problem is, if you were a criminal, would you feel secure knowing that you might get shot down when you enter a house? Of course you wouldn't, and therefore you get something protect yourself with, even though it micht've not have been needed. Now we have a potentially dangerous situation, both sides have means to kill the other, and this means that situations might escalade. If you're not feeling threatened while doing burglary, you probably won't go upstairs and hold the family at gun point, but as soon as you see or hear a gun, the situation escalades. Would the criminal have carried the gun if he didn't feel intimidated? You can discuss that, but it is [I]extremely[/I] rare that someone is actually threatened with a gun here in Denmark in case of burglary, even more rare that someone gets shot or injured. I'm not saying that this by all certainty applies to the US, but I really think it does. It's my personal opinion, and I don't see why any criminal would act like you describe, unless they're entirely fucked up. And most criminals aren't fucked up, they just need money like every other guy.
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