CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief: "Washington, Tel Aviv, and London are already goading Iran to react with v - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061025]Not really the point, considering he just said 'NATO countries'. How much funding each one donates is irrelevant to the assertion he made.[/QUOTE] I only discounted Norway and Iceland and a few others.

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061041]I only discounted Norway and Iceland and a few others.[/QUOTE] Right, so after Norway and Iceland, you would describe the other 26 states in NATO as 'corporatist'?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061064]Right, so after Norway and Iceland, you would describe the other 26 states in NATO as 'corporatist'?[/QUOTE] More or less, or heavily controlled/influenced by the USA or Germany.

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061075]More or less, or heavily controlled/influenced by the USA or Germany.[/QUOTE] You're mad. Germany, Denmark, France, Belgium, Hungary, Canada, The Netherlands, all Corporatist? Based on what?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061088]You're mad. Germany, Denmark, France, Belgium, Hungary, Canada, The Netherlands, all Corporatist? Based on what?[/QUOTE] Denmark I neglected to mention at my other post but lets go down the list. Germany: Germany is one of the worst corporatist countries in the EU and NATO, their government is controlled by Merkel and her Capitalist puppet masters. France: Along with Germany they although have a social welfare state like Germany, they still have a lot of Euro corps controlling and lobbying the Government, not to mention the Imperalist aggression against Libya and Syria. Belgium& Netherlands: They're not as bad as say other NATO countries but still buy into most American control. Hungary: Hungary gave away control of its government to corporatism when the sold off state assets in the 90s. Canada: You got to be fucking kidding me if you think we are not Corporatist/American controlled.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061088]You're mad. Germany, Denmark, France, Belgium, Hungary, Canada, The Netherlands, all Corporatist? Based on what?[/QUOTE] Canada is corporatist. But we are not American controlled. Our conservative government just seems to agree on many things that the states agrees on.. need a new party ottawa.

Also special mention to the fact that Germany is controlled by the Post fascist government formed by the allies.

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]Germany is one of the worst corporatist countries[/quote] Citation needed. [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]Capitalist puppet masters.[/quote] Citation needed. [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]Along with Germany they although have a social welfare state like Germany[/quote] It's good that citizens can go to university or get healthcare no matter what their income level. [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]they still have a lot of Euro corps controlling and lobbying the Government[/quote] Citation needed. [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]not to mention the Imperalist aggression against Libya and Syria.[/quote] Calling it 'imperialist aggression' doesn't change what it was, pure rhetoric. [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]Belgium & Netherlands: They're not as bad as say other NATO countries but still buy into most American control.[/quote] Citation needed. [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]Hungary: Hungary gave away control of its government to corporatism when the sold off state assets in the 90s.[/quote] Citation needed for the 'gave away control of its government to corporatism' part, I know they sold off assets. [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]Canada: You got to be fucking kidding me if you think we are not Corporatist/American controlled.[/QUOTE] Harper is very Conservative, but I wouldn't say Canada as a country is Corporatist. Again, citation needed. You've said a ton of large things as if they are widely known fact. Provide basis for them or they are forfeit.

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]not to mention the Imperalist aggression against Syria. [/QUOTE] where

[QUOTE=Starpluck;34061195]where[/QUOTE] The fascist rebels fighting against their righteous, freedom loving government, duh[I]![/I] [editline]00[/editline] Also, Ale, educate yourself on what corporatism is: [quote] is a system of economic, political, or social organization that involves association of the people of society into [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_group_%28sociology%29"]corporate groups[/URL], such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labor, military, patronage, or scientific affiliations, on the basis of common interests[/quote] You're thinking of plutocracy.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;34061195]where[/QUOTE] Mostly diplomatic at this point, but with the giving of arms to the rebels.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;34061195]where[/QUOTE] "EU rejects French call for intervention in Syria" "France training rebel force in Syria" "France funding Syrian rebels"

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061186]Citation needed. Citation needed. It's good that citizens can go to university or get healthcare no matter what their income level. Citation needed. Calling it 'imperialist aggression' doesn't change what it was, pure rhetoric. Citation needed. Citation needed for the 'gave away control of its government to corporatism' part, I know they sold off assets. Harper is very Conservative, but I wouldn't say Canada as a country is Corporatist. Again, citation needed. You've said a ton of large things as if they are widely known fact. Provide basis for them or they are forfeit.[/QUOTE] All are these countries free market? Yes Do these countries have lobbies for corporations? Most of them Are they all influenced by the US State department? Yes If they have the first two, they are most likely corrupted by corporations. [editline]5th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;34061203]The fascist rebels fighting against their righteous, freedom loving government, duh[I]![/I] [editline]00[/editline] Also, Ale, educate yourself on what corporatism is: You're thinking of plutocracy.[/QUOTE] Okay, I'll use plutocracy, now. I always thought that what corporatism was.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061088]You're mad. Germany, Denmark, France, Belgium, Hungary, Canada, The Netherlands, all Corporatist? Based on what?[/QUOTE] To be fair, Germany is pretty predominately corporatist.

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061212]All are these countries free market? Yes Do these countries have lobbies for corporations? Most of them Are they all influenced by the US State department? Yes If they have the first two, they are most likely corrupted by corporations.[/QUOTE] That doesn't mean it's safe to assume that such a country is corporatist, or that a country with even the smallest amount of corporate influence is corporatist. [editline]5th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34061268]To be fair, Germany is pretty predominately corporatist.[/QUOTE] Okay, but based on what? Just because the CDU's in charge of the current government that doesn't mean it's corporatist. Even if Die Linke was currently the ruling party it wouldn't mean the country suddenly becomes Leftist.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061286]That doesn't mean it's safe to assume that such a country is corporatist, or that a country with even the smallest amount of corporate influence is corporatist. [editline]5th January 2012[/editline] Okay, but based on what? Just because the CDU's in charge of the current government that doesn't mean it's corporatist. Even if Die Linke was currently the ruling party it wouldn't mean the country suddenly becomes Leftist.[/QUOTE] They all have large amounts of corporate influence.

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061154]Germany: Germany is one of the worst corporatist countries in the EU and NATO, their government is controlled by Merkel and her Capitalist puppet masters.[/QUOTE] I feel safe to say that's not the case. Merkel is pretty pathetic as a ruler, most of the time she tries to calm everyone else's tits and acts like a big nanny while 50% of the politicians are absent during sessions and the other 50% are busy polishing their egos for upcoming elections. The FDP, who formed a coalition with Merkel's party in order to get the majority needed to be the ruling party, is crumbling steady, in some areas they're below the friggin Pirate Party. The FDP's name probably won't tell you much, but let's just say they're mainly known for getting a lot of "donations" from the industry and hoteliers by now. Our government right now is pretty much right, so the left-aligned parties are currently getting a boost. It's always like that, one coalition fucks up and people put faith in the opposition, the sides are switched but the same thing happens again and they switch again and again and again. The only thing that slowly changes is votes going from the big parties going to smaller ones with a clean record so far, which makes the big parties so desperate for votes they consider coalitions with tough enemies - which of course doesn't satisfy their voters and fuels the development. Of course the government isn't free of corruption. The energy and electricity industry over here is pretty monopolistic in nature and is granted backdoors again and again in the updated plans of progressively replacing atomic energy through green energy. They're also getting free passes on a lot of security matters that would mean expensive renovations, but every now and then somebody notes how fucked up some power plant securities are. But I don't think anything really changes in that regard. I would say however that Merkel is more "America-loving" than her predecessor, tho it could be part of her "can't we just work together on this?"-mentality. Her predecessor strictly opposed assisting the American war in the middle east with troops (selling weapons is still profitable & cool tho), but because troops are currently being pulled out she's doing a lot of backpedaling right now on a decision that's less-than-popular with the people anyway. Plus it's a move the opposition advocated since long, so now it looks like they had the right idea all along. And like I said above, the opposition is left inclined and has one party in particular inclined to socialist views, as opposed to Merkel's party and most notably her coalition partner the FDP who is all for stabilizing the economy by supporting its biggest and most important players, the big corporations. After the Greece incident and the crumbling of the American market as well as the European one, naturally people don't think it's the way to go, so Merkel has to somehow backpedal on this without leaving a bad impression by outright dumping her coalition partner. Plus she has quite a big of voting power in the EU and a lot of people are depending on her opinion on the current Euro crisis. Does this seem like a government that's in control of the situation? Obviously lobbyists aren't nonexistent, but that's a given, isn't it?

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061297]They all have large amounts of corporate influence.[/QUOTE] Who does? Which corporations?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061286] Okay, but based on what? Just because the CDU's in charge of the current government that doesn't mean it's corporatist. Even if Die Linke was currently the ruling party it wouldn't mean the country suddenly becomes Leftist.[/QUOTE] Vehicles, electronics and weapons, they have very influential and powerful corporations who have their hands in the pockets of the government, it's not as bad as the US, but it isn't exactly perfect.

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;34061341]snip[/QUOTE] Although I commend you on the lecture on modern German politics, which I did find interesting, Germany is plutocratic because of the larger amount of corporate control especially compared to other countries.

[QUOTE=Marik Bentusi;34061341]Does this seem like a government that's in control of the situation? Obviously lobbyists aren't nonexistent, but that's a given, isn't it?[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing that there are no lobbyists and no corporate influence in these countries, but his allegation of 'they are corporatist' is objectively incorrect. [editline]5th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ale994145;34061372]Although I commend you on the lecture on modern German politics, which I did find interesting, Germany is plutocratic because of the larger amount of corporate control especially compared to other countries.[/QUOTE] Again, which corporations? Through what and from where are they controlling Germany?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061364]Who does? Which corporations?[/QUOTE] Banks most often, but the arms industry is a big one too, remember that when it comes to the free market, a CEO of a bank might be a member of the board of several different corporations.

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061385]Banks most often, but the arms industry is a big one too, remember that when it comes to the free market, a CEO of a bank might be a member of the board of several different corporations.[/QUOTE] Okay, but specifically, in Germany, which corporations and through what methods are they controlling the government? You keep saying 'banks and corporations', but when it comes to specifics you can't seem to do it.

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061393]Okay, but specifically, in Germany, which corporations and through what methods are they controlling the government? You keep saying 'banks and corporations', but when it comes to specifics you can't seem to do it.[/QUOTE] Alright, I'll just list every large German corporation with a stake in government, do you want a copy of every single document pointing to corporate coercion while I'm at it?

[QUOTE=Ale994145;34061412]Alright, I'll just list every large German corporation with a stake in government, do you want a copy of every single document pointing to corporate coercion while I'm at it.[/QUOTE] I'm not asking for a research paper on it, but surely you can muster at least one credible source for the claim that 'Germany is corporatist'.

Volkswagon, Heckler and Koch, Commerzbank, Daimler AG, and Deutsche Bank. These are the ones I can point out who have been pandered to by legislation in the Bundestag

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;34061443]Volkswagon, Heckler and Koch, Commerzbank, Daimler AG, and Deutsche Bank. These are the ones I can point out who have been pandered to by legislation in the Bundestag[/QUOTE] Right, there we go. So is the criteria for whether or not a country is corporatist just 'is there any amount of corporate influence'?

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061417]I'm not asking for a research paper on it, but surely you can muster at least one credible source for the claim that 'Germany is corporatist'.[/QUOTE] Aside from Membership in the WTO,EU And OECD, it is the home to a large amount huge multinational companies. Also for lobbying: [url]http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/feb2007/germ-f01.shtml[/url]. The OECD especially.

snip

[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34061450]Right, there we go. So is the criteria for whether or not a country is corporatist just 'is there any amount of corporate influence'?[/QUOTE] Of course. Honestly, corporatism is when your main industries basically control your governments decisions. You can't deny the massive car industry has influence over the German government.