• [London Underground] Mon-Thursday Strike Imminent... that's 3 Strikes in One Year.
    55 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Fetret;44719793]I'm hoping you were joking, but anyway as far as I know the flags just show the country you first registered your FP account not the country you are at the moment. At least for me.[/QUOTE] It was a joke.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;44710449]They protect the interests of their workers at what cost? Almost every union in history has been involved in organized crime at some point to achieve their goals, and some regularly run with criminal organizations. Activities have ranged from corruption, embezzlement, coercion, extortion, larceny, violence and murder. Then you have the problem of unions causing businesses to fail because of outlandish compensation and benefit demands. And even if businesses don't fail, the ridiculous demands drive up prices for the consumer that have to buy said product under the unionized workforce. You have such a twisted view of the world that it's hilarious. Rich people BAD cuz they keep tha poo man down! Unions are a redundant product of a bygone era that have no place in modern society.[/QUOTE] holy shit as if the employers haven't historically been so rotten that you could easily make similar sweeping generalisations about them. [QUOTE=Matthew7434;44709333]thing is that there is laws for that kind of stuff[/QUOTE] Those laws wouldn't probably exist or survive without unions enforcing said laws.
What is with the anti-labor reactionaries on Facepunch, how can one seriously argue against the necessity of organized labor. Like I understand criticizing certain (mostly American) unions for being integrated into the corporate structures and failing their purposes, but to argue that we're in some kind of 'post-union' era and we can just trust employers not to be abusive dickheads? In every thread about labor or striking there's a huge amount of apologists for capital and a villainizing of workers asking for anything more than the 'privilege' to work, backed up by some high school economics garbage. Where does this shit even come from, seriously?
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44710022]A good unionised workforce is probably the closest one can get to the [b]dictatorship of the Proletariat[/b] in a capitalistic society.[/QUOTE] is this satire
Unions definitely have a place, the problem with Tube strikes (and similarly Teachers' strikes) is that they don't do harm to the employer so much as other people. Costing one of the biggest cities in the world millions of pounds and inconveniencing the millions of people who live there isn't directly hurting TFL, it's just making everyone hate them and be far less amenable to their cause.
also unions are a good thing, they are about as capitalist as the capitalists themselves its effectively a type of labour cartel, and many businessmen are just as likely to cut a deal as they are to employ union busting [editline]4th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=E1025;44719838]I can't wait for the tube to be automated.[/QUOTE] It's rather cool in a way. One of the most fascinating things I've found is to study the worker. Break down every single one of his actions. Then hire a single person to do each action, and have it all done in a single continuous process. Then you replace each action with a tool or piece of machinery, and gradually work them altogether, until you have a completely automated system, with the use of science and reason. It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of jobs.
[QUOTE=Joey90;44723343]Unions definitely have a place, the problem with Tube strikes (and similarly Teachers' strikes) is that they don't do harm to the employer so much as other people. [/QUOTE] It affects both equally, really. While a lot of people may miss work or be really late, large businesses will lose a lot of money on a day to day basis if the city goes into effective transit gridlock.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44711067]No. Straight up, 100% fucking no. That is just a blatantly untrue statement to make. You're saying the 100% of all unions ever are involved in organised crime. You're fucking wrong.[/quote] Nice straw man you have there. [QUOTE=The Aussie;44711067]I know of several major unions, both my parents are in Unions, and most of my relatives are in unionised workforces. I have not once ever heard of any such claim.[/quote] Why would the unions your relatives work in reveal their inner structure to outsiders? Of course you're not going to hear about it, nobody is dumb enough to freely expose their secrets to the public. [QUOTE=The Aussie;44711067]I'm sorry but it seems to me that you're the one with the twisted world view. Have you considered its also in the best interests for the workers to not bankrupt their parents companies? Why the fuck would union bosses choose to bankrupt their employers? Union bosses aren't retarded, they realise that if the parent goes bankrupt, they lose their job and everyone they represent loses their job too. I would also love for you to show me how the owners of companies in America love giving liveable salaries with good benefits. I would also like to see how a fair amount and number of employees are employed to prevent overworking.[/quote] You say I have a twisted world view when you attempt to straw man my post, get angry and proceed to infer that because you've never heard of organized crime in the unions your family belongs to that it never happens? Good show. And why would union bosses bankrupt the companies they work for? That's easy, greed. There's a difference between a fair market wage and being overpaid or grossly overpaid. Fair market wage is not always going to be the same, and many unions simply price themselves out of the market because they refuse to budge on their compensation. This is what causes businesses to fail, while the business may be able to handle the extra "baggage" of union wage and benefit gouging when the economy is good, they quickly fall into crisis during troubled times. The recession starting in 2008 readily showed this. [QUOTE=The Aussie;44711067]You Americans are so proud of being overworked.[/quote] You need to stop making ridiculous generalizations lol.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44712389]Get rid of the drivers and get automated trains, robots dont complain[/QUOTE] it's not drivers striking -_-
Unions are great idea in theory, just in most cases aren't transparent enough in practice, allowing for corruption and bias to take place.
[QUOTE=draugur;44719615]To all you guys bitching about "evil unions" : how about you come like in my state, a right to work state, and then fucking tell me that unions are evil. You're spreading anti-union propaganda but have never experienced the employment hell that is a union less work environment. I mean, unless you enjoy being verbally abused by your employer legally for less than minimum wage that is. Once you give me proof that you've worked in the conditions that come from your idiotic ideology, I'll give you the credibility you presently hardly deserve the notion of getting a sliver of. I've worked for $6 an hour, 12 hour days and been verbally abused by my boss legally. Did I quit my job? Yeah, but only because I didn't HAVE to have a job at that point, had I needed the money to survive it would have been absolute hell. Just because you take unions for granted in your sheltered fucking world, doesn't mean everyone else does. Despite your almost religious preaching that big trickle down economics is a functional idea and that employees would somehow be better off if the employer wasn't forced to treat them like human beings, I don't think anyone smarter than a hand full of sand will buy into it, and I really doubt you have any actual experience that says otherwise besides the "evil union ruins X" stories you watched on Fox News.[/QUOTE] If your employer is cheating you, call the DOL.
God you anti union guys are worse at arguing your points than the white knights here. If you want someone to agree with you, try not to insult them in every statement you make. "I think unions are a good idea because..." -good "Only an idiot from the past would even..." -bad
[quote]that's 3 Strikes in One Year.[/quote] Every year we get at least four major strikes across the country from either airports and train conductors in France, plus the bus conductor strikes. Three strikes in one year doesn't sound like it's a lot to me, is that sad ? :v:
Apparently the strike is called off. Joyous news.
Yeah I got emailed by TFL telling me it's cancelled. Thank god because I have a job interview in Central tomorrow.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;44727673]Every year we get at least four major strikes across the country from either airports and train conductors in France, plus the bus conductor strikes. Three strikes in one year doesn't sound like it's a lot to me, is that sad ? :v:[/QUOTE] i meant this year. [editline]5th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Dominic0904;44727845]Yeah I got emailed by TFL telling me it's cancelled. Thank god because I have a job interview in Central tomorrow.[/QUOTE] oh nice!!
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44711067]No. Straight up, 100% fucking no. That is just a blatantly untrue statement to make. You're saying the 100% of all unions ever are involved in organised crime. You're fucking wrong. I know of several major unions, both my parents are in Unions, and most of my relatives are in unionised workforces. I have not once ever heard of any such claim. I'm sorry but it seems to me that you're the one with the twisted world view. Have you considered its also in the best interests for the workers to not bankrupt their parents companies? Why the fuck would union bosses choose to bankrupt their employers? Union bosses aren't retarded, they realise that if the parent goes bankrupt, they lose their job and everyone they represent loses their job too. I would also love for you to show me how the owners of companies in America love giving liveable salaries with good benefits. I would also like to see how a fair amount and number of employees are employed to prevent overworking. You Americans are so proud of being overworked. [editline]3rd May 2014[/editline] 1. See above. 2. Yes, i agree Unions complicate the office, but it's nice to feel safe and secure in your Job, wage and benefits. 3. Taking my parents as another real world example, i can say that my parents aren't stuck to one job. My dad was pretty much a manual labourer. However, after cuts at work, he did his accreditations through the union to replace people who got made redundant. It's also worth mentioning again that just because a workforce is unionised, doesn't mean that people cant be fired (well, made redundant). Now he actually does skilled work, and works in a variety of situations. [editline]3rd May 2014[/editline] God unions in America are fucking retarded.[/QUOTE] i said it before, the cold war had very serious repercussions on the american psyche(and some europeans too), anything that isn't right-wing is literal communism or bad due to "reasons" to a lot of americans, those guys you answered are likely a result of that. the US needs to feel what is like having next to no worker rights to realize the insanity of opposing unions.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44728748]i said it before, the cold war had very serious repercussions on the american psyche(and some europeans too), anything that isn't right-wing is literal communism or bad due to "reasons" to a lot of americans, those guys you answered are likely a result of that. the US needs to feel what is like having next to no worker rights to realize the insanity of opposing unions.[/QUOTE] I don't think that's necessarily what happened. I thought the anti-communist propaganda in the West from the 50s to the 90s incorrectly focused on the authoritarian aspects of the 'communist' regimes (in reality, far from communist), rather than being a criticism of what communism actually is. Tagging something as socialist or communist will obviously bring back that connection to the 'red scare' for some people, but I think the only criticisms for things such as optional universal healthcare (like Australia's system) would be criticised for their cost aspects (and for being against small and efficient government), not for being left-wing.
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44724935]If your employer is cheating you, call the DOL.[/QUOTE] What the fuck is the DOL going to do if it's legal? Nothing. Because my employer was breaking no laws by fucking me over like that, I fall in that place of nothing can be done and no one is going to stand up for me.
[QUOTE=draugur;44733045]What the fuck is the DOL going to do if it's legal? Nothing. Because my employer was breaking no laws by fucking me over like that, I fall in that place of nothing can be done and no one is going to stand up for me.[/QUOTE] If you worked for less than minimum wage, you didn't have a real job then. It is illegal as hell to pay under the minimum wage.
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44749129]If you worked for less than minimum wage, you didn't have a real job then. It is illegal as hell to pay under the minimum wage.[/QUOTE] not if you get tips
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;44749228]not if you get tips[/QUOTE] I don't tip the people who make my bricks.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44723300]is this satire[/QUOTE] Not in the slightest. [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Wizards Court;44728748]i said it before, the cold war had very serious repercussions on the american psyche(and some europeans too), anything that isn't right-wing is literal communism or bad due to "reasons" to a lot of americans, those guys you answered are likely a result of that. the US needs to feel what is like having next to no worker rights to realize the insanity of opposing unions.[/QUOTE] I agree, it's pretty ridiculous. In my political leanings, i'm actually decently close to classic Marxism. Moderate to small government, low authoritarianism, and left wing socialist economics. A libertarian socialist i believe. I see that many people, especially the elderly, are literally terrified and outright hostile to even socialism. [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Matthew7434;44749129]If you worked for less than minimum wage, you didn't have a real job then. It is illegal as hell to pay under the minimum wage.[/QUOTE] How old are you. This is a serious question. I want to actually know if you are a member of the workforce and hold and actual job. Furthermore, who the fuck are you to decide what is and isn't a "real job?"
[QUOTE=Matthew7434;44749129]If you worked for less than minimum wage, you didn't have a real job then. It is illegal as hell to pay under the minimum wage.[/QUOTE] What part of "Agriculture jobs are exempt from labour and wage laws" are you incapable of comprehending? I was legally employed, and I'm pretty sure being a ranch hand is more of a real job than you've even considered holding in your damn life. You probably think playing video games is gueling labour with how entitled you sound. [editline]8th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Matthew7434;44751211]I don't tip the people who make my bricks.[/QUOTE] You probably don't tip anyone, since they don't make a lot of money and thus don't have a real job. Anyway, I was payed $50 a day, 8 hours work minimum or I would be paid only 6.25/hr for the hours I did. Usually closer to 12 hours during the summer, for that same $50. Meaning I got less money the more I worked really.
[QUOTE=GiGaBiTe;44723704]Nice straw man you have there.[/quote] Oh lawdy. You made the statement "Almost every union in history has been involved in organized crime at some point to achieve their goal". I said no. Its wrong. [quote] Why would the unions your relatives work in reveal their inner structure to outsiders? Of course you're not going to hear about it, nobody is dumb enough to freely expose their secrets to the public.[/quote] You know this is a argument very reminiscent of something i'd see on stormfront. Simply replace "unions" with "jews". That simple comparison should tell you a lot about your arguments composition. [quote] You say I have a twisted world view when you attempt to straw man my post, get angry and proceed to infer that because you've never heard of organized crime in the unions your family belongs to that it never happens? Good show.[/quote] Did i say that unions have never been in organised crime? Mate, you throw the strawman at me and then yourself strawman, in the same sentence. [quote]And why would union bosses bankrupt the companies they work for? That's easy, greed. There's a difference between a fair market wage and being overpaid or grossly overpaid. Fair market wage is not always going to be the same, and many unions simply price themselves out of the market because they refuse to budge on their compensation. This is what causes businesses to fail, while the business may be able to handle the extra "baggage" of union wage and benefit gouging when the economy is good, they quickly fall into crisis during troubled times. The recession starting in 2008 readily showed this.[/quote] Funny that. Australia's economy is heavily unionised. I'm sorry, remind which economy out of the US and Australias was mostly uneffected by the GFC? Oh yeah. Australia. I'm even going to one up you with a source, from the Australian bureau of statistics. [quote]The effect of the crisis on Australia has been considerably less than in many other countries. The Australian economy has recorded markedly better growth outcomes than most other developed economies, many of which have experienced severe recessions and rises in unemployment.[/quote] [url=http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/1301.0Chapter27092009%E2%80%9310]Source[/url] [quote]You need to stop making ridiculous generalizations lol.[/quote] Hypocrite.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44752902]Funny that. Australia's economy is heavily unionised. I'm sorry, remind which economy out of the US and Australias was mostly uneffected by the GFC? Oh yeah. Australia. I'm even going to one up you with a source, from the Australian bureau of statistics. [url=http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/1301.0Chapter27092009%E2%80%9310]Source[/url][/QUOTE] I wouldn't say that a heavily unionised workforce was the reason we avoided the GFC. Correlation is not causation. The reason we escaped from it would be more attributable to a government that actually knew what they were doing, and deliberately put themselves in deficit and made sure we as consumers kept on spending. God knows where we would be if the Coalition won the 07 general election. [url]http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/6310.0Main%20Features2August%202012?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=6310.0&issue=August%202012&num=&view=[/url] In August 2012, only 18% (steady for three years at the time) of people had a union membership regarding their main job. I wouldn't call that heavily unionised. But saying all that, this isn't a criticism of unions. Only that they weren't the reason we avoided the GFC.
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