Trijicon, maker of ACOG scopes, to Remove Bible References from Gun Sights - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Starpluck;29034807]The difference is, you have to use the scopes with the biblical scriptures, you can't refuse it. Anyone can refuse the pledge.[/QUOTE] I can't help but notice how anytime religion comes into something people get really bugged out. Half the people who use the sights have no idea they're there. Or if you're like me you don't give a shit or you don't mind. I'm pretty sure you can refuse to use an ACOG, on the otherhand, I don't know why anyone would because they're Grade-A Excellence in a box. Doesn't really matter now, butthurt atheists ruined a neat thing.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;29035160]I can't help but notice how anytime religion comes into something people get really bugged out. Half the people who use the sights have no idea they're there. Or if you're like me you don't give a shit or you don't mind. I'm pretty sure you can refuse to use an ACOG, on the otherhand, I don't know why anyone would because they're Grade-A Excellence in a box. Doesn't really matter now, butthurt atheists ruined a neat thing.[/QUOTE] If bible verses don't increase the performance of a scope and you personally didn't care about them, how was "a neat thing" ruined?

[QUOTE=c0nk3r;29035115]aka, "your opinion is different so you are a fuckwit so i rated you dumb"[/QUOTE] No I rated you dumb because your logic follows the same path as "All germans were nazis" and "All Muslims are freedom hating turrurists" I can tell I will have fun in the future trolling you.

I really don't see an issue because it is a private company. The company's own endorsements are pretty irrelevant to the buyer in that it has no effect on the product. If the purchaser has an issue with the endorsement they can ask for it to not be included, which is likely to be paid more attention to with big clients. I disagree with the oppositions terror filled claim, that such passages will only fuel extremists. That is a fear based argument. The company made a good move in voluntarily removing the references because they avoid conflict and also keep a large customer (the government). Basically what I'm saying is that the company has full right to put the references on the scopes, and the government has full right not to buy the scopes for that reason.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;29035160]I can't help but notice how anytime religion comes into something people get really bugged out. Half the people who use the sights have no idea they're there. Or if you're like me you don't give a shit or you don't mind. I'm pretty sure you can refuse to use an ACOG, on the otherhand, I don't know why anyone would because they're Grade-A Excellence in a box. Doesn't really matter now, butthurt atheists ruined a neat thing.[/QUOTE] Except it's not just atheists, it's everyone who cares. Protip: that could be anyone.

[QUOTE=c0nk3r;29035115]aka, "your opinion is different so you are a fuckwit so i rated you dumb"[/QUOTE] It is my opinion that you are a total retard. Don't rate me dumb though cause it's my opinion k.

It's retarded to put Bible references on rifle copes to begin with, but if I had to use one of those scopes it wouldn't bother me; it would just be a reference to a passage in an old book put on the scope by an idiot. Like atheists who complain about "In God We Trust" on the dollar bills, I mean who gives a shit? Complain about being discriminated on the job market or something worthwhile.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;29035196]If bible verses don't increase the performance of a scope and you personally didn't care about them, how was "a neat thing" ruined?[/QUOTE] I didn't care because it didn't effect the performance of the scope as you said, but I did think it was neat because when I heard about the passages (I never noticed them before) and I read them I thought it was really cool because of how they reference the operation of the sight with a bible passage. It was kind of badass. [editline]7th April 2011[/editline] No one gets upset when soldiers or cops wear the Pork Eating Crusader patch. (Granted these are Germans in this picture but it's an example:) [img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y-20llFH8FA/TRyuvmz8h-I/AAAAAAAAEl4/FZ5Vu77ZnO0/s1600/porkeatingcrusader.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=archangel125;29032843][B]John 8:12[/B] [I]When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”[/I] [/QUOTE] Pffft, if you are going to use this one, it should be on the side of a firebomb.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;29034599]Because [U][B]everyone [/B][B]has to[/B][/U] utilize these scopes regardless of their beliefs; It will alienate non-Christian soldiers among other things.[/QUOTE] You have quite the slippery slope argument going on. Do you legitimately think the passages on the scope have any kind of impact at all? Do you really think it has potential to alienate somebody? Could you describe a plausible situation in which it would have a negative impact?

[QUOTE=c0nk3r;29035115]aka, "your opinion is different so you are a fuckwit so i rated you dumb"[/QUOTE] I don't care if you're not an atheist or disagree, but it's [B]wrong[/B] to equate everyone within a group.

They aren't being removed because of controversy they are being removed because they are getting mixed up with serial codes or something.

[QUOTE=Pepin;29035306]You have quite the slippery slope argument going on. Do you legitimately think the passages on the scope have any kind of impact at all? Do you really think it has potential to alienate somebody? Could you describe a plausible situation in which it would have a negative impact?[/QUOTE] It damages the image of the US as a secular nation, or this conflict as a secular war.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;29035259] No one gets upset when soldiers or cops wear the Pork Eating Crusader patch. (Granted these are Germans in this picture but it's an example:) [img_thumb]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y-20llFH8FA/TRyuvmz8h-I/AAAAAAAAEl4/FZ5Vu77ZnO0/s1600/porkeatingcrusader.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] Wow, didn't see that before. I can definitely see that being viewed as offensive, but quite humorous too. Wearing those patches is the choice of the solder himself though, and I can respect if someone with a job that involves shooting at people and getting shot at needs to use some humor to cope with it. I've personally experienced nurses and doctors pull distasteful jokes relating to their daily activities for the same reason.

[QUOTE=Pepin;29035306]You have quite the slippery slope argument going on. Do you legitimately think the passages on the scope have any kind of impact at all? Do you really think it has potential to alienate somebody? Could you describe a plausible situation in which it would have a negative impact?[/QUOTE] It would annoy the shit out of me and make me feel like I was fighting for beliefs that are not my own. I imagine there are plenty of Atheist soldiers with similar feelings. So yeah, it would have a negative impact.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;29035417]Wow, didn't see that before. I can definitely see that being viewed as offensive, but quite humorous too. Wearing those patches is the choice of the solder himself though, and I can respect if someone with a job that involves shooting at people and getting shot at needs to use some humor to cope with it.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they're optional. Those are Germans but I've also seen American, Canadian and the UK forces using them. They also have the "INFIDEL" patches. "Hadji's Don't Surf" and so on. [img]http://milspecmonkey.com/store/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Hadji_Don_t_Surf_4b80e8c82c9bd.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Bassplaya7;29035325]It damages the image of the US as a secular nation, or this conflict as a secular war.[/QUOTE] Alright, you made a claim, but you need something to support that claim. Go into detail on how it causes damage and the direct correlations. Be sure to focus on how a Biblical reference on a scope made by a third party has such an impact on all of the other premises for the war.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;29035259]I didn't care because it didn't effect the performance of the scope as you said, but I did think it was neat because when I heard about the passages (I never noticed them before) and I read them I thought it was really cool because of how they reference the operation of the sight with a bible passage. It was kind of badass. [editline]7th April 2011[/editline] No one gets upset when soldiers or cops wear the Pork Eating Crusader patch. (Granted these are Germans in this picture but it's an example:) [img_thumb]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y-20llFH8FA/TRyuvmz8h-I/AAAAAAAAEl4/FZ5Vu77ZnO0/s1600/porkeatingcrusader.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE][QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;29035440]Yeah, they're optional. Those are Germans but I've also seen American, Canadian and the UK forces using them. They also have the "INFIDEL" patches. "Hadji's Don't Surf" and so on. [img_thumb]http://milspecmonkey.com/store/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Hadji_Don_t_Surf_4b80e8c82c9bd.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE] The difference is you aren't forced to wear them. Sure it may be viewed as offensive to some, but that's really their problem. It becomes a genuine problem though when others who do not want to wear them, especially when Muslim soldiers, have to wear them.

Putting bible verses on gun sights doesn't alienate atheist soldiers. They are just numbers that have a meaning to christians. I wouldn't personally care a shit as an atheist. Edit: Sure, it's not appropriate but why should anyone whine on the media?

[QUOTE=GunFox;29035427]It would annoy the shit out of me and make me feel like I was fighting for beliefs that are not my own. I imagine there are plenty of Atheist soldiers with similar feelings. So yeah, it would have a negative impact.[/QUOTE] The claim you are making is that a Biblical reference on a scope will make people believe they are fighting for religious beliefs. Can you explain how such a minute thing somehow convinces somebody that they are fighting the war for an entirely different reason?

Does it really make difference? I fail to see how bible references will improve or impede the sights in any way, so why bother going to the trouble of removing them?

[QUOTE=Starpluck;29035513]The difference is you aren't forced to wear them. Sure it may be viewed as offensive to some, but that's really their problem. It becomes a genuine problem though when others who do not want to wear them, especially when Muslim soldiers, have to wear them.[/QUOTE] No one is forced to use ACOG scopes. They don't issue them to EVERY SINGLE PERSON and even when they do issue them in bulk you don't HAVE to use it. These scopes cost like $1,500+ anyway. They cost more than most guns do.

[QUOTE=Bassplaya7;29035309]I don't care if you're not an atheist or disagree, but it's [B]wrong[/B] to equate everyone within a group.[/QUOTE] idk i just find it wierd that it seems like all of the sudden everyone an atheist its probably because im on the internets alot now though maybe i should go crawl back into my hole :v:

The US military should not buy weapons with Biblical references on them because it may be interpreted/misinterpreted that the US military is sponsoring/endorsing a religion which the government is not allowed to do because of the separation of church in state. I have a difficult time seeing any realistic negative effects coming from this, but I don't believe there should be religious references on anything the US government purchases simply to adhere to the separation of church and state. Purchasing these scopes does not mean the military is endorsing Christianity, because it is the company that is endorsing Christianity. But people might interpret it as the military purposely selecting these scopes because of the references, which would be a claim that would be difficult to support. It is more likely that there would be a misinterpretation with people thinking the military requested for Biblical references to be on the scopes, which is not true because that was the company's choice. Although I do not believe the government is in the wrong for purchasing these scopes, I do believe it is something to not do to avoid any speculation that they are endorsing a religion.

I thought all this outrage at this happened years ago? Has it taken that long for something to actually be done?

[QUOTE=Jsm;29036199]I thought all this outrage at this happened years ago? Has it taken that long for something to actually be done?[/QUOTE] Red tape can be a motherfucker to cut through

[QUOTE=c0nk3r;29032974]they started doing it back in the day when everyone wasnt going "LOL IM COOL IM ATHEIST LEEOEOLOL"[/QUOTE] YOU KNOW KIDS BACK IN MY DAY when we sucked a dick it wasn't gay we were just big palls

-snip-

Really? Are you [i]seriously[/i] going to notice a tiny biblical reference on your gun sight in combat? Or even at the range? People are ridiculous these days

[QUOTE=bravehat;29035036][URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3892699.stm[/URL] Yeah the british rarely sub contract out work, we take pride in doing the job ourselves and being good at it. And we went there for stupid reasons, frankly I'd be happy if we pulled out completely today, but the fact is we're there, and we need to make the best of a shitty situation.[/QUOTE] "Except [B]most [/B]of the construction done is contracted by Private contractors" The British are A: secondary to the US in influence in Iraq and B: Not Americans, which says a lot. A situation that shouldn't be, that's the issue.