15 Years Later: New Scientific Paper in Reputable Physics Journal Argues 9/11 Was An Inside Job - Polidicks

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;51049725]No, no they're not.[/QUOTE] I think I just found the best avatar+post combination of the year

[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51050101] That's also ignoring the [I]thousands[/I] of people who didn't hear an explosion.[/QUOTE] Ok, this easily disproves eye-witness cases.

[QUOTE=Fourier;51050066]So, how is it possible that they heard explosions during collapses? Though it is unclear - heard explosions prior and/or during collapses. Though now that I think of it, home appliances like butane gas (for cooking) could be explosive.[/QUOTE] Loud snapping of beams failing and coming apart from each other can sound like explosions. If you ever have cut a bolt under tension they do make a loud pop when they give, multiply this by however many are holding beams together and it will be quite loud.

Bit late to the party by I'll provide some input: [QUOTE=Barbarian887;51048733]Answer how aluminum can pierce steel. I need this answered. Without violating neuton's third law, explain how this can happen[/QUOTE] Law of Conservation of Momentum. Also, here is a picture of an impact on the window of the space shuttle caused by a fleck of paint: [url]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/Space_debris_impact_on_Space_Shuttle_window.jpg[/url] Space shuttle Columbia disaster was caused by a piece of foam impacting the Reinforced Carbon-Carbon heat shielding. Softer things travelling at high speed can damage or destroy harder things. [QUOTE=srobins;51048302]I won't be a condescending ass to you because I used to be a 9/11 conspiracy theorist too, but you really should check out this guy's channel (and this video specifically): [video=youtube;DhHzMttUKO0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHzMttUKO0[/video] imo it's very easy to believe 9/11 theories because not only are we naturally inclined to believe interesting and fantastical things, but a lot of the theories are really convincing, and when 90% of people's opposition is based on naive predicates like "b-but why government hurt p-people? that no make sense?", it's easy to assume that anyone who doesn't believe in 9/11 theories are just naive, sheltered, unwilling to see the truth, etc. In reality though I've yet to see any 9/11 theory that hasn't been adequately debunked, and in recent years as more and more information has come out (specifically about the Saudi Arabia link), the official story just makes sense.[/QUOTE] This is a great video, explains it nicely. I wasn't sure about the molten aluminum explanation until I saw this, then it made sense. I should know though because I built an aluminum foundry to melt/cast aluminum and I've gotten it to glow orange before.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51047981]I don't really want to waste my time with this bullshit article but I have to clear up this common stupid claim: yes, these three cases are the only know cases where a fire has leveled high-rise buildings. These are also some of the only know cases where high-rises have collapsed [i]ever[/i].[/QUOTE] And of high speed passenger aircraft ramming into high rise buildings, and/or the debris of collapsing high rises hammering adjacent structures.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51048708]I'm 22, no I did not attend a High School, I got a GED instead[/QUOTE] oh... Guess It's a good thing I'm so late to this thread. I would have wasted so much of my time in here.

[QUOTE=Fourier;51050066]True, that is possibility too. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] glass =/= metal. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] Still, you must admit, whole story has holes. Lets say building crashed because of plane and not controlled demolition.. but, what about witnesses? Eye-witness: So, how is it possible that they heard explosions during collapses? Though it is unclear - heard explosions prior and/or during collapses. Though now that I think of it, home appliances like butane gas (for cooking) could be explosive.[/QUOTE] As materials break and fracture the energy building up inside of them releases suddenly now that the pressure is relieved. Which is, basically, how an explosion works. Especially pressure vessel explosion like pipe bombs or exploding water heats. That sudden release of energy is what they are heading. As walls and support structures break and give away, they release their energy in to the air around them very quickly, producing a sound like an explosion. If you bend a piece of 2x4 enough that it snaps, it makes a loud, audible crack. Well, scale that up to large pieces of metal. Metal is actually terrible at absorbing and cancelling the vibrations produced in these rapid releases of energy. So the noises they make are much worse. We were actually discussing this just last week in my MSE (materials engineering) class, which is starting right now actually.

Regardless of whether or not it was a conspiracy, I've seen people go "but what would they have to GAIN?" Perhaps the single greatest excuse for the complete erosion of any sense of privacy granted to American citizens?

[QUOTE=Fourier;51050066]True, that is possibility too. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] glass =/= metal. [editline]14th September 2016[/editline] Still, you must admit, whole story has holes. Lets say building crashed because of plane and not controlled demolition.. but, what about witnesses? Eye-witness: So, how is it possible that they heard explosions during collapses? Though it is unclear - heard explosions prior and/or during collapses. Though now that I think of it, home appliances like butane gas (for cooking) could be explosive.[/QUOTE] The floor panels gave way as described in a video I posted previously. Hell, Barbarian posted a thing about three floors being pancaked together. The explosions were heard because the interior of the building was collapsing before the exterior. The explosions are the sound made by the falling floor structures hitting the floor under it and cascading down. The puffs of smoke being ejected from the windows is caused because these falling floor panels force material out the window like a giant bellows. This hypothesis also frees up a lot of land for the exterior structure to fall in on itself, which was already falling in on itself due to the heat and gravity pulling the floors inward at the area of impact as previously described in the video I posted. Molten aluminium, already shown to be present near the top and near the bottom (because it rained down out the Conspiracy Window) also explodes when in contact with water. [url]http://www.livescience.com/16179-twin-tower-collapse-model-squash-9-11-conspiracies.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Zyler;51048855]We're at step 4: In this current version of the loop it's 1.Claim: Planes cannot travel at 500mph at 100ft 2.Rebuttal:Do you have sources to back up that claim? 3.Moving the Goal Posts: Look it up yourself And when this doesn't work 4.Character Attack: Nobody will listen to any sources I post, everyone in this thread is biased against me It will go in a loop like 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 until we reach a point where he either runs out of claims or gets pinned down, in which case he goes to 4, waits a while and then back to 1 with a fresh claim to repeat the cycle.[/QUOTE] This is my experience arguing with conspiracy theorists. I used to know a guy who believed in all of them; that 9/11 was perpetrated by the US government, that Obama was born in Kenya, that the Newtown shootings didn't happen. But he used the exact same sort of style that Barbarian is exhibiting in this thread. Claim something and as soon as it gets disproven, immediately claim something else, and then just keep doing this until you reach a point where the person who believes the conspiracy hits a terminal point where they simply do not accept facts. No sources sit right with them as they were just paid off by the government, or threatened by the government and then you just simply stop arguing and no one feels like they gained anything. Other than, of course, the realization that arguing with a conspiracy theorist is pointless. You just really have to hope they eventually reach the logical conclusions on their own later in life.

[QUOTE=OvB;51050374]The floor panels gave way as described in a video I posted previously. Hell, Barbarian posted a thing about three floors being pancaked together. The explosions were heard because the interior of the building was collapsing before the exterior. The explosions are the sound made by the falling floor structures hitting the floor under it and cascading down. The puffs of smoke being ejected from the windows is caused because these falling floor panels force material out the window like a giant bellows. This hypothesis also frees up a lot of land for the exterior structure to fall in on itself, which was already falling in on itself due to the heat and gravity pulling the floors inward at the area of impact as previously described in the video I posted. Molten aluminium, already shown to be present near the top and near the bottom (because it rained down out the Conspiracy Window) also explodes when in contact with water. [url]http://www.livescience.com/16179-twin-tower-collapse-model-squash-9-11-conspiracies.html[/url][/QUOTE] I have 4 questions about the pancake theory. first why wasn't the core still standing? what happened to the core? What destroyed the perimeter columns? What happaned to the core columns Why was there so little debris? 110 stories of a skyscraper stacked on top of each other would be a huge mound probably like a third the height of the building, no? Where did all of the debris go?

[QUOTE=Fourier;51050129]Do not say no without actual argument, it just makes you look silly.[/QUOTE] I can because the argument for why has already been made for me by other people.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050411] Why was there so little debris? 110 stories of a skyscraper stacked on top of each other would be a huge mound probably like a third the height of the building, no? Where did all of the debris go?[/QUOTE] I'm confused about this question. Are you asking because you think the building was collapsed in some magical way that just...removed debris somehow? The fact that the building collapsed on itself is not in question. The amount of debris doesn't really prove...anything, does it?

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050411]I have 4 questions about the pancake theory. first why wasn't the core still standing? what happened to the core? What destroyed the perimeter columns? What happaned to the core columns Why was there so little debris? 110 stories of a skyscraper stacked on top of each other would be a huge mound probably like a third the height of the building, no? Where did all of the debris go?[/QUOTE] Oh for fucks sake here we go again.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050411]I have 4 questions about the pancake theory. first why wasn't the core still standing? what happened to the core? What destroyed the perimeter columns? What happaned to the core columns Why was there so little debris? 110 stories of a skyscraper stacked on top of each other would be a huge mound probably like a third the height of the building, no? Where did all of the debris go?[/QUOTE] The collapsing floors pulled everything down with them. Simple. Have you ever heard of compaction? Shit was fucking turned to dust by the energy and sheer mass of the fall.

[QUOTE=geel9;51050420]I'm confused about this question. Are you asking because you think the building was collapsed in some magical way that just...removed debris somehow? The fact that the building collapsed on itself is not in question. The amount of debris doesn't really prove...anything, does it?[/QUOTE] Magical? No. The aftermath tells of story of what happened. most of the building was pulverized into fine dust and there were V cuts all over the rubble pile. If it just pancaked down like you say, there'd be floors stacked on top of each other, about 110 floors, instead we saw this. [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/WTC-Wreckage-exterior_shell_of_south_tower.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050411]I have 4 questions about the pancake theory. first why wasn't the core still standing? what happened to the core? What destroyed the perimeter columns? What happaned to the core columns Why was there so little debris? 110 stories of a skyscraper stacked on top of each other would be a huge mound probably like a third the height of the building, no? Where did all of the debris go?[/QUOTE] 1) Failure cascade from having already been destroyed at the area of impact, having a large amount of fireproofing blown off at the area of impact, and having an extreme amount of weight come crashing down on it from above. 2) Already explained in the post you quoted. They were pulled inward. 3) Same as 1? $) WTC was built in a giant concrete "bathtub", much of which was basement, subway trains, and shopping centers iirc. The debris pile was well overflowing this concrete bucket. [img]http://i.imgur.com/URWMBsp.jpg[/img] [img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/9XDmDRg.jpg[/img_thumb] Much of the debris was pulverized into a fine powder which was blown all throughout lower Manhattan. That what could be removed was sent to Fresh Kills landfill and sifted by hand for many months to find human remains. [img]http://i.imgur.com/tnhLxNZ.jpg[/img] Note the size of the cars in comparison to the mounds of fine debris. The larger column steel was quickly recycled so we could make shit like this boat: [img]http://i.imgur.com/2ENsCrq.jpg[/img] (which has some recycled 9/11 steel in it)

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050456]Magical? No. The aftermath tells of story of what happened. most of the building was pulverized into fine dust and there were V cuts all over the rubble pile. If it just pancaked down like you say, there'd be floors stacked on top of each other, about 110 floors, instead we saw this. [IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/WTC-Wreckage-exterior_shell_of_south_tower.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Are you serious. Like for real? You seriously expect to see all 110 floors just sitting on top of each other? Do you have no concept of reality?

And to anyone poo-pooing me for my formal education or lack thereof, I'd like to see your credentials, I'm not afraid to share mine. Also neither are these people: [url]http://www.ae911truth.org/signatures/ae.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050411]110 stories of a skyscraper stacked on top of each other would be a huge mound probably like a third the height of the building, no? Where did all of the debris go?[/QUOTE] What is air My head-cannon is that Barbarian887 is a super-genius GED graduate from an alternate reality with very, very different physics from our own. He built a machine to travel to different realities and now he's trapped here in ours trying his hardest to acclimate to how different everything is. That's why his posts sound like complete gibberish to us.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;51050469]Are you serious. Like for real? You seriously expect to see all 110 floors just sitting on top of each other? Do you have no concept of reality?[/QUOTE] Well I'd like to think I do. What's on your mind? I know it's easier to just insult me when you disagree than to actually form a rebuttal but maybe you could take a minute to enlighten me.

[QUOTE=Teddybeer;51050474]Merely increased it as they trend already increased. And American citizens don't get the most shit from it as our government happily shares data and information in bulk with little in return but in secret. So on record America does it and complaining to America about my privacy results in a lot of laughing. Oh and then Americans just only care that their privacy is gone but not the rest of the worlds.[/QUOTE] Your reply doesn't really seem to have much to do with my post. The American government served to gain massively from 9/11 because it gave them an incredible justification for increasing the mass data collection and outright spying on its own citizens.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050456]V cuts[/QUOTE] V-cuts made by first responders making the area safe so they could save lives. 60 tons of thermite charges wouldn't make neat little cuts like a dude with a plasma cutter would.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050470]And to anyone poo-pooing me for my formal education or lack thereof, I'd like to see your credentials, I'm not afraid to share mine. Also neither are these people: [url]http://www.ae911truth.org/signatures/ae.html[/url][/QUOTE] You admitted to not attending highschool and you're shocked people are mocking you for thinking you know more than the people that did?

On top of everything, most of you forget the most important detail: the support columns' fireproofing material was completely stripped due to the crashes. If I recall correctly, studies have suggested that the towers would have been able to survive had the fireproofing material remained intact. It was designed to survive a fire of such amplitude, it wasn't designed to survive an airliner crash and THEN a massive fire.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050479]Well I'd like to think I do. What's on your mind? I know it's easier to just insult me when you disagree than to actually form a rebuttal but maybe you could take a minute to enlighten me.[/QUOTE] Maybe if you took some english classes in highschool you'd be able to read all the rebuttals people have given you.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;51050473]What is air My head-cannon is that Barbarian887 is a super-genius GED graduate from an alternate reality with very, very different physics from our own. He built a machine to travel to different realities and now he's trapped here in ours trying his hardest to acclimate to how different everything is. That's why his posts sound like complete gibberish to us.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry I sound like gibberish, is there anything you want me to try to re-articulate? With regards to the air inside of the building, yes, it no doubt occupied the majority of its height, but I think there should have been a much larger rubble pile, at least higher than the lobby. Am I wrong? btw, love your source mods.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050503]I'm sorry I sound like gibberish, is there anything you want me to try to re-articulate? With regards to the air inside of the building, yes, it no doubt occupied the majority of its height, but I think there should have been a much larger rubble pile, at least higher than the lobby. Am I wrong? btw, love your source mods.[/QUOTE] I want you to read a physics book and source that.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050479]Well I'd like to think I do. What's on your mind? I know it's easier to just insult me when you disagree than to actually form a rebuttal but maybe you could take a minute to enlighten me.[/QUOTE] Why would the floors be sitting on top of one another? The floors were made from smallish, barely structural steel. Their job was to hold up office workers and their furniture. The floor was probably thin steel plates laid down on small steel A frame trusses. You're telling me that, these small A frame trusses and thin sheet metal are going to maintain their structure after an entire building comes crashing down on it? [img]http://i.imgur.com/nWI7wNm.jpg[/img] Plus, the whole floor held up by those tiny little brackets, which would be under intense heat form the fire, lost structural integrity, dropped the floors near the impact, which put added strain on the floors below them because they weren't designed to hold up tons and tons and tons of steel floor structure + heat. The rest is a failure cascade.

[QUOTE=Barbarian887;51050479]Well I'd like to think I do. What's on your mind? I know it's easier to just insult me when you disagree than to actually form a rebuttal but maybe you could take a minute to enlighten me.[/QUOTE] The floors destroyed each other as they hit each other as they fell 110 stories. Combine that with he collapsing core and outer walls crashing into each other and you get total destruction, not a neat little pile. I bet the first 5-10 floors maybe fell on each other intact but as they accelerated and shit was ripping itself apart they were destroyed. It really is that simple, well mostly.