US supports it so why wouldn't Israel honestly I'm amazed that it took this long to reach a boiling point.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27716173]what the fuck happened to my thread[/QUOTE]
It, like every other thread in the world, changed subject over time, just as any normal conversation would in person.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;27716237]It, like every other thread in the world, changed subject over time, just as any normal conversation would in person.[/QUOTE]
Naturally, but the subject changed rather quickly.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27715437']The people that vote are tyrants?[/QUOTE]
51% oppresses the other 49%. In a democracy minorities are oppressed by the tyrannical majority. That's why we have a constitution. That's why the Senate often needs over 60% vote to pass a bill. This is why we have a judicial branch to uphold the constitution. This is all to impede democracy and the tyranny it presents.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716098']Communism is not good in theory. It does not allow for anyone to become successful.
A complete idiot is the same as a genius.[/QUOTE]
Yes I personally dislike that idea too (everyone should be given the same opportunities, but one who can male something out of those opportunities should be rewarded more). Real utopian communism would be that everyone has everything they want (which is a utopia), in reality it would become, as you said, a "everyone is the same" (which is bad, as humans simply don't work that way). And then that degenerates into a dictatorship as soon as people understand that they can have huge gains out of the system.
Ok enough I'll go to bed now before I derail the thread further.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27716260]51% oppresses the other 49%. In a democracy minorities are oppressed by the tyrannical majority. That's why we have a constitution. That's why the Senate often needs over 60% vote to pass a bill. This is why we have a judicial branch to uphold the constitution. This is all to impede democracy and the tyranny it presents.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is why parliamentary systems don't work as well.
[QUOTE=acds;27716136]This is true, appeasing everyone is absolutely impossible. Which is also one of the good things of democracy, even if that 40% of the populace does not get what it wants, they still have the feeling that they had their say in the matter (which, with a dictatorship be it benevolent or not, doesn't happen).[/QUOTE]
That's really reassuring when the majority votes to oppress the minority.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716098']Communism is not good in theory. It does not allow for anyone to become successful.
A complete idiot is the same as a genius.[/QUOTE]
What? No. Learn what communism is.
[QUOTE=acds;27716094]Yeah that's true, the word "Tyrant" has a very different meaning nowadays, so in today's world it might not be a good idea to use it. The ancient Greeks used it in a much more general way though (unless I'm mistaken, it just defined the individual that held power of the nation/state/society).[/QUOTE]
Greeks used tyrant as a word that meant any absolute ruler. A monarch is a tyrant in a conservative monarchy. A dictator is also a tyrant. There was such a thing as a benevolent tyrant.
[editline]28th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716304']Yes, that is why parliamentary systems don't work as well.[/QUOTE]
Why again? Parliamentary systems don't work because they insure freedom for the minority?
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27716173]what the fuck happened to my thread[/QUOTE]
De-Railed, somewhat.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27716324]That's really reassuring when the majority votes to oppress the minority.
What? No. Learn what communism is.
Greeks used tyrant as a word that meant any absolute ruler. A monarch is a tyrant in a conservative monarchy. A dictator is also a tyrant. There was such a thing as a benevolent tyrant.
[editline]28th January 2011[/editline]
Why again? Parliamentary systems don't work because they insure freedom for the minority?[/QUOTE]
Communism:
a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
Essentially, It is redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, and government owning all property, making it even harder to achieve success.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716386']Communism:
a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
Essentially, It is redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, and government owning all property, making it even harder to achieve success.[/QUOTE]
Why should someone be overly rewarded for being lucky? It turns the major rewards into minor rewards, lets say you where a good scientist, would you want to work in the field, just because it pays the same as working in the lab?
My outlook on life and work is that if you can make enough to survive on the things you enjoy, it's better than making a lot of money on something you don't enjoy.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716386']Communism:
a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
Essentially, It is redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, and government owning all property, making it even harder to achieve success.[/QUOTE]
Where did you get anything about government? In a real communist society it would either be anarchist(pure democracy) or a very limited government. Everything would be collectively owned by the people and redistributed based on what the person's needs are and what they provide to the commune.
[img]http://www.edinburghuna.co.uk/resources/Democracy+Index+Map.jpg[/img]
I've seen the image before and did a quick Google for it, it's some democracy index thing (lighter is better) (it can be found at [url]http://www.edinburghuna.co.uk/31.html[/url]). What I find funny is that the United States is in no. 18 and Australia is in no. 10. Australia for the win.
[QUOTE=Kingy_who;27716562]Why should someone be overly rewarded for being lucky? It turns the major rewards into minor rewards, lets say you where a good scientist, would you want to work in the field, just because it pays the same as working in the lab?
My outlook on life and work is that if you can make enough to survive on the things you enjoy, it's better than making a lot of money on something you don't enjoy.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but if one person studies very hard and works hard for there whole life, while another sits around all and watches TV; they would both get equal money, which is completely unfair.
[editline]28th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27716576]Where did you get anything about government? In a real communist society it would either be anarchist(pure democracy) or a very limited government. Everything would be collectively owned by the people and redistributed based on what the person's needs are and what they provide to the commune.[/QUOTE]
It is unfair that you can't achieve success in a communist society.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716653']Sure, but if one person studies very hard and works hard for there whole life, while another sits around all and watches TV; they would both get equal money, which is completely unfair.[/QUOTE]
No they wouldn't. They wouldn't get money at all, for one, since it would be goods that would be distributed. Number two it is based on both need and worth. A scientist would get more than a lazy person, in fact a lazy person would probably be kicked out of the commune.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27716694]No they wouldn't. They wouldn't get money at all, for one, since it would be goods that would be distributed. Number two it is based on both need and worth. A scientist would get more than a lazy person, in fact a lazy person would probably be kicked out of the commune.[/QUOTE]
In a very small society yes, In anything larger than a city it would not work like that.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716762']In a very small society yes, In anything larger than a city it would not work like that.[/QUOTE]
You said communism wasn't good in theory and completely got the theory wrong. I was correcting you.
Whether it is possible to work in real life remains to be seen since it has hardly been tried and many of the times it has been it was done by sociopaths or bad leaders who didn't actually want a communist society and just a dictatorial oppressive government.
[editline]28th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716653']
It is unfair that you can't achieve success in a communist society.[/QUOTE]
Define success. By most people's standards(sane people) you can succeed in a communist society simply by working hard and contributing to society.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27714808]No oppressive dictatorships should be backed at all to be honest, even if they assist you in wailing Gazans in and share complicity with you in managing an illegal blockade.[/QUOTE]
All the hypocrisy is out there for all the world to see: Now the Egyptian people are trying to make their voices heard and where are the leaders of the free world, and what encouragement do they offer the PEOPLE as opposed to the support they give the dictator who rules them?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;27716847]You said communism wasn't good in theory and completely got the theory wrong. I was correcting you.
Whether it is possible to work in real life remains to be seen since it has hardly been tried and many of the times it has been it was done by sociopaths or bad leaders who didn't actually want a communist society and just a dictatorial oppressive government.
[editline]28th January 2011[/editline]
Define success. By most people's standards(sane people) you can succeed in a communist society simply by working hard and contributing to society.[/QUOTE]
Working Hard, Becoming Wealthy, and enjoying your life.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];27716942']Working Hard, Becoming Wealthy, and enjoying your life.[/QUOTE]
You can do that in a communist society. Wealthy in the sense you get what you need and what you want, since money wouldn't be used.
Fuck Israel.
They're trying not to step on toes, I can understand that, but seriously?
[QUOTE=Arachnidus;27717377]Fuck Israel.[/QUOTE]
I've never had much arousal to sand and dirt, but if that's the way you go, more power to ya.
Israel always has to ruin everything
One question: Would it count as "Tyranny of the majority" if most of the people in the school you go to hate you except for a select few?
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