Mother and daughter arrested over incestuous marriage in Oklahoma - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Vasili;51024303]No it shouldn't be legal, incestuous relationships are surrounded by dysfunctional mental health minefields.[/QUOTE] You seem to have outright certainty that legalising marriage with close relatives would lead to more inbred children?

It's ok guys, no effects of close relative breeding! /s [IMG]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ukOTKmXE--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/bwjftcz5ingfji28la3h.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE]Charles did not learn to speak until the age of four nor to walk until eight, and was treated as virtually an infant until he was ten years old. [B]His jaw was so badly deformed (an extreme example of the so-called Habsburg jaw) that he could barely speak or chew[/B].[/QUOTE] [QUOTE][B]By the time of Charles's birth there had been many generations of inbreeding within the Spanish royal house[/B]; his physical and mental disabilities are widely attributed to this inbreeding. The practice of first-cousin and uncle-niece marriages was common among 17th-century European nobility, intended to preserve prosperous families' properties. The Habsburgs were an extreme case of this; they had won their extensive holdings mostly through marriages and were determined to keep others from turning the tables on them. Charles's own immediate pedigree was almost exclusively populated with close relative relationships: [B]Charles's mother, Mariana of Austria, herself a Habsburg, was a niece of his father, Philip. Mariana was a daughter of Empress Maria Anna of Spain (1606–46) and Emperor Ferdinand III. Thus Maria Anna was simultaneously his aunt and grandmother while Margaret of Austria, Maria Anna's mother, was both his grandmother and great-grandmother. The inbreeding was so widespread in his case that all of his eight great-grandparents were descendants of Joanna and Philip I of Castile. This inbreeding had given many in the family hereditary weaknesses that Habsburg generation was more prone to still-births than were peasants in Spanish villages.[/b][/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding[/url]

Yee. This is pretty weird, but unless it isn't consensual, I don't think anybody on the legal level should give a fuck.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51024391]Its none of anyones fucking business if both people are happy, heck if all 3 or 5 or 10 of them are happy... [/QUOTE] I'm not even sure why people, myself including are arguing with you about this when the situation in the OP is clearly not healthy for the daughter and if you took 10 seconds to read the OP you'd have seen that

Only on FP have i seen people defending incest smh Im glad the mom is in jail and i hope the kids get all the help they need.

defending incest, bunch of weirdos the lot of ya

Well that is gross. I will say that ten thousand dollars for bail is excessive though.

i find it hard to believe a mother - daughter relationship like this wouldn't come with/be a result of a myriad of mental issues

[QUOTE]Patricia had previously married her son, Jody, in 2008, with the marriage annulled two years later.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]“She forced my sister into this, there's a lot of people that know it. For you to want to put your own daughter through this, what kind of person are you? [/QUOTE] Yeah, no. This isn't a decision made by two adults, she's crazy... [QUOTE]According to a KFOR report, Patricia said she didn’t believe that she would be breaking the law by marrying Misty as her name does not appear on her daughter’s birth certificate.[/QUOTE] Maybe she was trying to do it for the legal benefits, though?

[QUOTE=layla;51024558]defending incest, bunch of weirdos the lot of ya[/QUOTE] gr8 argument

[QUOTE=RobL;51024605]gr8 argument[/QUOTE] You think defending incest isn't weird? lmao

[QUOTE=RobL;51024605]gr8 argument[/QUOTE] I'll just leave a paragraph from the Incest page on Wikipedia for you then, from the human paragraph. (I removed source numbers cause they look bad-ish and don't make sense unless your on the wikipage) [QUOTE]Inbreeding increases the chances of the expression of deleterious recessive alleles by increasing homozygosity and therefore has the potential to decrease the fitness of the offspring. With continuous inbreeding, genetic variation is lost and homozygosity is increased, enabling the expression of recessive deleterious alleles in homozygotes. The inbreeding coefficient, a term used to describe the degree of inbreeding in an individual, is an estimate of the percent of homozygous alleles in the overall genome. The more biologically related the parents are, the greater the inbreeding coefficient (See Coefficient of Inbreeding), since their genomes have many similarities already. This overall homozygosity becomes an issue when there are deleterious recessive alleles in the gene pool of the family. By pairing chromosomes of similar genomes, the chance for these recessive alleles to pair and become homozygous greatly increases, leading to offspring with autosomal recessive disorders. Inbreeding is especially problematic in small populations where the genetic variation is already limited. By inbreeding, individuals are further decreasing genetic variation by increasing homozygosity in the genomes of their offspring. Thus, the likelihood of deleterious recessive alleles to pair is significantly higher in a small inbreeding population than in a larger inbreeding population. By consistently increasing the homozygosity of alleles, the population is permitting the expression of these harmful alleles, resulting in genetic disorders. Due to the inflicted individuals decreased fitness and reproductive success, the recessive alleles will eventually become culled by natural selection. Thus in small inbreeding populations, deleterious recessive alleles are more likely to be prevalent in the short term, but will decrease more swiftly in the long term after consistent expression followed by natural selection. The fitness consequences of consanguineous mating have been studied since their scientific recognition by Charles Darwin in 1839. Some of the most harmful effects known from such breeding includes its effects on the mortality rate as well as on the general health of the offspring. Within the past several decades, there have been many studies to support such debilitating effects on the human organism. Specifically, inbreeding has been found to decrease fertility as a direct result of increasing homozygosity of deleterious recessive alleles. Fetuses produced by inbreeding also face a greater risk of spontaneous abortions due to inherent complications in development. Among mothers who experience stillbirths and early infant deaths, those that are inbreeding have a significantly higher chance of reaching repeated results with future offspring.[53] Additionally, consanguineous parents possess a high risk of premature birth and producing underweight and undersized infants. Viable inbred offspring are also likely to be inflicted with physical deformities and genetically inherited diseases. Studies have confirmed an increase in several genetic disorders due to inbreeding such as blindness, hearing loss, neonatal diabetes, limb malformations, Schizophrenia and several others. Moreover, there is an increased risk for congenital heart disease depending on the inbreeding coefficient (See Coefficient of Inbreeding) of the offspring, with significant risk accompanied by an F =.125 or higher.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Reduced fertility both in litter size and sperm viability Increased genetic disorders Fluctuating facial asymmetry Lower birth rate Higher infant mortality Smaller adult size Loss of immune system function[/QUOTE] Lovely [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding#Humans[/url]

[QUOTE=RedBaronFlyer;51024489]It's ok guys, no effects of close relative breeding! /s [IMG]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ukOTKmXE--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/bwjftcz5ingfji28la3h.jpg[/IMG] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding[/url][/QUOTE] 1: this is because of generational inbreeding, the spanish court has a specific 3 generations of brothers marrying sisters in a row ffs 2: research on genetics in tribal communities has shown that as long as you keep inbreeding non-generational it has no adverse effect to genetics. even when copulating with your twin. also this article, while of a non-reputable source is a wonderful collection of reputable sources itself, and why inbreeding can be bad, but doesnt have to be as long as fresh genes are introduced afterwards. [url]http://io9.gizmodo.com/5863666/why-inbreeding-really-isnt-as-bad-as-you-think-it-is[/url] 3: marrying != kids

[QUOTE=Araknid;51024615]You think defending incest isn't weird? lmao[/QUOTE] I was thinking of close relative relationships rather than incestous reproduction, sorry. Why aren't pregnant women banned from smoking though? That's arguably more harmful for the child.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51024298]incestuous relationships are extremely unhealthy and unstable in general for both parties, especially if children are produced of the union[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to be facetious or defensive, I just legitimately want to know for the sake of it, in general: What's the difference between two random women falling in love with each other, and two random women falling in love and then finding out they're closely related? I know that's not what this article is about, but I always see the argument that these relationships are always inherently unstable and I want to know what the magical property is that makes that hold true. [editline]9th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=layla;51024558]defending incest, bunch of weirdos the lot of ya[/QUOTE] I'm not sure I'd defend it because it is weird and creepy in my opinion, but in the case of same-sex relationships (because allowing inbreeding and creating children with such terrible conditions is clearly unethical), I'm of the "who cares" train of thought. Some related women I never met and probably will never meet are fucking and happen to be related. I can't see why I should give a shit at all about that, I just can't be bothered to give a shit about what some strangers are doing as long as they aren't hurting anybody. Which is why I'm asking for more information on why these things are inherently hurtful, because if people are getting hurt then yeah I'd be against it. Again; this isn't really me defending it or condoning it; it's me asking "why should I expend the energy to get angry about it?"

Defending incest isn't defending inbreeding. If there's no pregnancy involved, it's the same as gay marriage or marriage with someone who can't reproduce specifically in that no one should care. Pregnancy is where I'm okay with stepping in and saying it's wrong, but that's the pregnancy itself and not the incestuous nature of their relationship. A brother and sister should be able to live a life with an adopted kid without being legally punished or prohibited from it. [editline]9th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Araknid;51024615]You think defending incest isn't weird? lmao[/QUOTE] Years ago, this quote might have read [QUOTE=Araknid;51024615]You think defending the gays isn't weird? lmao[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51024889]I'm not trying to be facetious or defensive, I just legitimately want to know for the sake of it, in general: What's the difference between two random women falling in love with each other, and two random women falling in love and then finding out they're closely related? I know that's not what this article is about, but I always see the argument that these relationships are always inherently unstable and I want to know what the magical property is that makes that hold true.[/QUOTE] when people talk about incestuous relationships being inherently unstable, i have a feeling they're not talking about that scenario

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;51025062]when people talk about incestuous relationships being inherently unstable, i have a feeling they're not talking about that scenario[/QUOTE] To make it even more, the second situation is not criminal as it's a pretty standard error facti.

To correct the record i think its weird as fuck and cannot understand for the life of me why or how such relationships form other then "we are like kings and stuff, and if you marry some broad from a noble house in our court then that means we could really fucking lose a lot of power and control to that house" kinda stuff... Still, ill defend peoples choices to do what they believe is right for them as long as it does not harm others.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51025321]To correct the record i think its weird as fuck and cannot understand for the life of me why or how such relationships form other then "we are like kings and stuff, and if you marry some broad from a noble house in our court then that means we could really fucking lose a lot of power and control to that house" kinda stuff... Still, ill defend peoples choices to do what they believe is right for them as long as it does not harm others.[/QUOTE] For someone who supports Hitchens, this logic is a bit...backwards.

[QUOTE=Vasili;51024392] First: can we not compare gay marriage to incestuous marriage. Second: 'none of their business' is not an argument. Third: it is the governments business, I don't see a reason as to why it wouldn't be.[/QUOTE] For the record, I agree that this case should remain illegal because it was forced. Excluding inbreeding issues since this thread is mostly focused on homosexual couples - while incest really weirds me out, that doesn't make it a government issue. The problem is that you can not empower anyone to decide what is best for people. I don't like it, I don't want to participate in it, but I have no moral authority to tell someone else that they can't do it. Neither you, I, or government are made up of some sort of elite class of superhumans that knows how to best run everyone's personal lives. What's best for you, or even 90% of the population, is not always best for every single case. And in those rare edge cases, what you're doing is incriminating a consensual action. If it carries consequences (which is pretty well documented here), then those consequences are the punishment - why should we further punish them by arresting them?

This is fucked up. I doubt there is incest involved though (thank God), but the fact that she would use and abuse her own family like this for legal benefits is sickening. It's hard enough for same sex couples to be accepted, now you got this bitch making things worse.

[QUOTE=BoopieDoopie2;51024355]How about we post a study thats not twenty plus years old.[/QUOTE] Keep pushing them goalposts, I can't believe we have incest defenders here.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;51024933]Defending incest isn't defending inbreeding. If there's no pregnancy involved, it's the same as gay marriage or marriage with someone who can't reproduce specifically in that no one should care. Pregnancy is where I'm okay with stepping in and saying it's wrong, but that's the pregnancy itself and not the incestuous nature of their relationship. A brother and sister should be able to live a life with an adopted kid without being legally punished or prohibited from it. [editline]9th September 2016[/editline] Years ago, this quote might have read[/QUOTE] Jesus christ, have people completely ran out of ideas on what to defend? Can I marry my SUV or my headphones now? I mean it's not like I'm going to have a sexual relationship with it you fucking BIGOTS.

People are actually defending incest in this thread... for real? Do you even go outdoors?

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51025598]Jesus christ, have people completely ran out of ideas on what to defend? Can I marry my SUV and my headphones now? I mean it's not like I'm going to have a sexual relationship with it you fucking BIGOTS.[/QUOTE] I just honestly don't see the point in intervening in peoples personal lives if they aren't hurting anyone, it's consensual, and there's no children created by it. I honestly don't care outside of those and nothing any of you have said makes me think "I need to be intimately aware of everyones lives to make sure this abomination doesn't happen". I don't think it's okay, I just don't give a shit enough to invade their privacy or believe that I have the right to know the details of their lives. If you're not hurting anyone, you're doing everything consensually, and there's no kids being created, [B]why should I care about this issue in someone elses lives when I have my own fucking problems to worry about[/B] [editline]9th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=freaka;51025602]People are actually defending incest in this thread... for real? Do you even go outdoors?[/QUOTE] Yeah I actually spent the majority of my working life outdoors. What is that supposed to imply? If you people had anything but emotional outrage, you'd give it, but you don't, so you fucking can't. I need more than "UGH THIS IS GROSS AND ANGERS ME" to give a shit. I need logical rational reasons. I don't think incest is good, but if no ones hurt(not this case), it's consensual(Not this case) and there's no kids(this case) then I can't honestly understand the need to be utterly disgusted by it.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51024298]incestuous relationships are extremely unhealthy and unstable in general for both parties, especially if children are produced of the union[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Blizzerd;51024304]Source please[/QUOTE] Blizzerd gets better with every single post but I think I will forever remember that [b]that[/b] was his fucking response

genetics and mental health aside, incest is fucking weird and gross it carries some heavy fucking implications outside of 'love' and is not okay in my book at all it's like if a 30 y/o met a 12 y/o and then married the kid when they turned 18

People arguing about the issues caused by inbreeding despite the fact that there's no mention of a relationship, and the two individuals are female. Shouldn't the issue be "who is allowed to marry who"? And no I'm not defending it, this situation is messed up for so many reasons.

If they both consent and were doing it for benefits that marriage brings, I say who gives a shit. People marry for the benefits all the time, and in some cases don't even officially divorce so they can retain them. Besides. It takes multiple generations of inbreeding to start fucking shit up, and I doubt you'd have to worry about that with two women