Dual source: Obama administration issuing new deepwater drilling ban - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Glaber;23318233]Stop right there, do you even know my attitude towards Fox News?[/QUOTE] you occasionally disagree with them?

[QUOTE=Ragy;23318727]Germany was a great country for their achievements, advances, [B]and nationalism of their people,[/B] not for what they sadly did. There are factors which raise and lower quality of life. The United States may have achieved more, but you have a lower population and other factors which largely balance it out.[/QUOTE] Err... that's... not a good thing. Or at least it wasn't. And I suddenly find this idea of judging a nation on it's achievements kind of odd. A nation isn't a singular entity, the people inside the nation are what makes the achievements. While some may have been nationalistic and felt they were doing it for America, most probably considered their achievements for the good of humanity. Einstein, for example, isn't internationally considered to be an achievement of Germany, but of the world. The most important achievements usually are regarded on that level, as a mark of pride for humankind, not just a country.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23318788]Err... that's... not a good thing. Or at least it wasn't. And I suddenly find this idea of judging a nation on it's achievements kind of odd. A nation isn't a singular entity, the people inside the nation are what makes the achievements. While some may have been nationalistic and felt they were doing it for America, most probably considered their achievements for the good of humanity. Einstein, for example, isn't internationally considered to be an achievement of Germany, but of the world. The most important achievements usually are regarded on that level, as a mark of pride for humankind, not just a country.[/QUOTE] Depends on what kind of achievement it is. Nationalism is extremely powerful, it's what brought Germany to what it was. If the people love their country, the country will do well and achieve much. You can have a high quality of life, but if people don't actually love their country and believe in it, it's not what it can be.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;23318768]you occasionally disagree with them?[/QUOTE] occasionally, yes. This isn't one of those disagreeing times though.

[QUOTE=Ragy;23318876]Depends on what kind of achievement it is. Nationalism is extremely powerful, it's what brought Germany to what it was. If the people love their country, the country will do well.[/QUOTE] The country did well (for a while) but it didn't do good. Nationalism is certainly powerful, but i'd argue it's rarely if ever good. Pride in your country for the sake of pride leads to irrationality, it seems.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23318946]The country did well (for a while) but it didn't do good. Nationalism is certainly powerful, but i'd argue it's rarely if ever good. Pride in your country for the sake of pride leads to irrationality, it seems.[/QUOTE] Nationalism is good when it's used for good. It's a big topic that has multiple views. Although I do call myself a nationalist.

[QUOTE=Ragy;23319066]Nationalism is good when it's used for good. It's a big topic that has multiple views. Although I do call myself a nationalist.[/QUOTE] That good may be subjective though. Some argue a nationalistic approach to war is good. Personally, the only good I could see coming from it is support for civil programs and the like. Why be a nationalist anyways, though? It's too limiting, I can appreciate my country perfectly well but still see our appropriate place in the world. Nationalism seems like it would lead to... not xenophobia, but ethnocentrism (nationcentrism? fuck if i know)

[QUOTE=Glaber;23318938]occasionally, yes. This isn't one of those disagreeing times though.[/QUOTE] I figured

So now we're going to get less oil

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23319127]That good may be subjective though. Some argue a nationalistic approach to war is good. Personally, the only good I could see coming from it is support for civil programs and the like. Why be a nationalist anyways, though? It's too limiting, I can appreciate my country perfectly well but still see our appropriate place in the world. Nationalism seems like it would lead to... not xenophobia, but ethnocentrism (nationcentrism? fuck if i know)[/QUOTE] People are nationalist because they simply love their homeland. [editline]02:37AM[/editline] [QUOTE=rampageturke;23319270]So now we're going to get less oil[/QUOTE] Less at a higher price.

people are patriotic because they love their homeland. [editline]07:38PM[/editline] not nationalistic

[QUOTE=Ragy;23319397]Less at a higher price.[/QUOTE] :sigh:

Blind patriotism

[QUOTE=Ragy;23319066]Nationalism is good when it's used for good. It's a big topic that has multiple views. Although I do call myself a nationalist.[/QUOTE] either you don't know what nationalism means, or you are completely oblivious to your own country

[QUOTE=Ragy;23319397]People are nationalist because they simply love their homeland. [editline]02:37AM[/editline] Less at a higher price.[/QUOTE] What Lambeth said, patriotism results from a love of your homeland, nationalism is beyond that. Nationalism is more a belief in the superiority of your country. It can result from a love of your country, but it's not JUST that love.

The wiliness to defend and love your country can be defined as nationalism. It can be defined as patriotism also. It has different views. Although the love for your country is patriotism, my mistake.

[QUOTE=Ragy;23319600]The wiliness to defend and love your country can be defined as nationalism. It can be defined as patriotism also. It has different views.[/QUOTE] no it can't nationalism is the idea that a single group has sovereignty upon a state and only that state is valid and supreme north korea is an example of nationalism

[QUOTE=Ragy;23319600]The wiliness to defend and love your country can be defined as nationalism. It can be defined as patriotism also. It has different views.[/QUOTE] Well, it's better to be defined as patriotism. Nationalism has a bad name tied to it, it seems to imply a desire to impose your country's will on others and the idea of "my country right or wrong". Patriotism alone implies just loving your country, feeling pride it in, etc.

The point is that I rather live and raise a family in a country like Sweden, Norway or another country that has a good human development than the US

[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;23316131][i]One company[/i] screws up and [i]everyone[/i] gets punished? Seems slightly [i]un[/i]reasonable to me. :crossarms:[/QUOTE] well it is a high stakes game [editline]07:52PM[/editline] imagine if another one has the same problem horizon had [editline]07:54PM[/editline] [QUOTE=wanksta11;23319645]The point is that I rather live and raise a family in a country like Sweden, Norway or another country that has a good human development than the US[/QUOTE] if it weren't for the whole North Korea thing I wouldn't mind living in South Korea

Ragy, stop arguing. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. First you ranted about how the US is the best country on earth for specific reasons. We told you that they aren't the best in ANY of those fields, you say, Nope, still the best country. We tell you that nationalism is bad, you say it isn't. There really is no hope with you, yes, what country you love most if opinion. What country is the best can objectively be judged. [editline]08:12PM[/editline] I'm curious as to what you think America stands for. Freedom? What fucking freedom? Do you have the freedom to your own body? FUCK NO. Do you have more freedoms than any other country? Not even close. Are you the most democratic country? No. What do you see America as? It's clearly not something it actually is. [editline]08:13PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Ragy;23319600]The wiliness to defend and love your country can be defined as nationalism. It can be defined as patriotism also. It has different views. Although the love for your country is patriotism, my mistake.[/QUOTE] Come back when you have a better understanding of the terms nationalist, and patriot.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23319981]Ragy, stop arguing. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. First you ranted about how the US is the best country on earth for specific reasons. We told you that they aren't the best in ANY of those fields, you say, Nope, still the best country. We tell you that nationalism is bad, you say it isn't. There really is no hope with you, yes, what country you love most if opinion. What country is the best can objectively be judged. [editline]08:12PM[/editline] I'm curious as to what you think America stands for. Freedom? What fucking freedom? Do you have the freedom to your own body? FUCK NO. Do you have more freedoms than any other country? Not even close. Are you the most democratic country? No. What do you see America as? It's clearly not something it actually is. [editline]08:13PM[/editline] Come back when you have a better understanding of the terms nationalist, and patriot.[/QUOTE] A bit late to the party. We've already discussed this.

[QUOTE=Ragy;23320079]A bit late to the party. We've already discussed this.[/QUOTE] So do you admit your reasons and your definitions were skewed?

[QUOTE=Ragy;23320079]A bit late to the party. We've already discussed this.[/QUOTE] Yeah, strangely enough I had to go out and do that thing people call eating.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23320130]Yeah, strangely enough I had to go out and do that thing people call eating.[/QUOTE] Not really anyone's fault, but yourself. [editline]03:19AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23320125]So do you admit your reasons and your definitions were skewed?[/QUOTE] No.

[QUOTE=Ragy;23320160]Not really anyone's fault, but yourself. [editline]03:19AM[/editline] No.[/QUOTE] How terrible that I missed an argument where you got your asskicked in every direction.

Son of a bitch, I can't win. And you admitted your definition of nationalism/patriotism was off, damn it.

[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;23320192]Son of a bitch, I can't win. And you admitted your definition of nationalism/patriotism was off, damn it.[/QUOTE] Yes it was off. [editline]03:21AM[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;23320187]How terrible that I missed an argument where you got your asskicked in every direction.[/QUOTE] How terrible.

Skewed means off! :argh:

[QUOTE=Ragy;23320205]Yes it was off. [editline]03:21AM[/editline] How terrible.[/QUOTE] Your patriotism and nationalism definitions aren't even close to being the only things wrong with your arguments.