Martha Fernback ecstasy death: Mother calls for drugs legalisation - Polidicks

And i'm speaking from personal experience of over 50 rolls at various raves and parties and knowing a huge amount of users of the drug. In all this time, I've seen people go through every stage imaginable of it. 1 person has died in 4 years in my own experiences. 1 of hundreds is insubstantial and small. The more knowledge there is about the drug, like with alcohol, the more people are able to understand their own limits. The more often people do it, and talk to other people who do it, the more that knowledge can spread as well. I've noticed this in my own time rolling. Helping the people there do it correctly is a lot of fun. MDMA is a social drug and talking and being around people becomes an amazing activity. In my experience at the very least, people are kind and helpful and don't want to watch an OD. They'll try at some level to help keep people from overdosing. Most of the people who can't hold their alcohol or manage it properly have the problem of either not being experienced drinkers or being alcohols MDMA isn't a very dangerous drug when dosed correctly. It's barely even dangerous. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] I didn't get that from your post at all. I agree though, it's unlikely, but it'd be for the best for all of us.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45085685]And i'm speaking from personal experience of over 50 rolls at various raves and parties and knowing a huge amount of users of the drug. In all this time, I've seen people go through every stage imaginable of it. 1 person has died in 4 years in my own experiences. 1 of hundreds is insubstantial and small. The more knowledge there is about the drug, like with alcohol, the more people are able to understand their own limits. The more often people do it, and talk to other people who do it, the more that knowledge can spread as well. I've noticed this in my own time rolling. Helping the people there do it correctly is a lot of fun. MDMA is a social drug and talking and being around people becomes an amazing activity. In my experience at the very least, people are kind and helpful and don't want to watch an OD. They'll try at some level to help keep people from overdosing. Most of the people who can't hold their alcohol or manage it properly have the problem of either not being experienced drinkers or being alcohols MDMA isn't a very dangerous drug when dosed correctly. It's barely even dangerous. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] I didn't get that from your post at all. I agree though, it's unlikely, but it'd be for the best for all of us.[/QUOTE] Sorry if I didn't make my post clear enough, it's hard to keep track of what I'm saying in all these seperate posts. As you said most people who can't handle their alcohol are inexperienced, which can be fixed through proper education. The same thing can be done with mdma (teach people to be careful) and the risk of OD'ing on MDMA is about the same chance as with alcohol poisoning like 1 in hundreds (you have alot more experience then I do, so I assume you're right). I just don't think that it would stop people like the one in the article from overdosing and education would. I'm torn between complete legalisation (which would not increase the % of overdoses, but the absolute number since more people try it) and the black market (which also is a shit solution because of obvious reasons). So until there's a perfect solution I prefer the pros/cons of buying through a dealer more then the ones of legalisation.

[QUOTE=rider695;45085905]Sorry if I didn't make my post clear enough, it's hard to keep track of what I'm saying in all these seperate posts. As you said most people who can't handle their alcohol are inexperienced, which can be fixed through proper education. The same thing can be done with mdma (teach people to be careful) and the risk of OD'ing on MDMA is about the same chance as with alcohol poisoning like 1 in hundreds (you have alot more experience then I do, so I assume you're right). I just don't think that it would stop people like the one in the article from overdosing and education would. I'm torn between complete legalisation (which would not increase the % of overdoses, but the absolute number since more people try it) and the black market (which also is a shit solution because of obvious reasons). So until there's a perfect solution I prefer the pros/cons of buying through a dealer more then the ones of legalisation.[/QUOTE] Things may be different in Belgium, the laws, crime, and culture may all be different, and I can't speak on those. For the US, this is why I'm for legalization, Fewer or no cut drugs People can get treatment easier with less taboo Which means less abuse And fewer deaths from a bad reaction People can be educated easier with less taboo No sketchy black market for shady profits And personally I think it's good that people can do what they want with their body and that there are fewer people in jail for a victimless crime.

Kinda seems like common sense to not ingest something when you don't know what's in it.

A lot of people confuse giving education about something, or options to use something, with [i]approval[/i] of that thing. I think that's part of the reasoning behind making drugs illegal. This mom now recognizes that it's not the same thing. You can allow people to make their own choices even if you disapprove of those choices.

Exactly. Banning stuff and then providing biased education that doesn't include how to use said stuff safely or responsibly just makes everything worse.

[QUOTE=rider695;45084497]500 mg is a shitload of MDMA to take at once, especially if you've never done it before and are a little 15 yr old. This isn't a problem with legalisation, more a problem of not educating kids enough about drugs. I don't think ecstacy should be legalised, just properly explained. All this could be avoided if she was properly informed. (by school, parents, ...)[/QUOTE] Legalisation would pave the way for that education.

[QUOTE=rider695;45084497]500 mg is a shitload of MDMA to take at once, especially if you've never done it before and are a little 15 yr old. This isn't a problem with legalisation, more a problem of not educating kids enough about drugs. I don't think ecstacy should be legalised, just properly explained. All this could be avoided if she was properly informed. (by school, parents, ...)[/QUOTE] Education makes 0 difference sorry. We're already relatively well educated, and people still take drugs. If I was fully educated about ecstasy in school, it'd make no difference about me wanting to do it. In fact, if we were fully educated about it, we'd learn that it isn't as bad health wise as it's made out to be. Demonizing something only puts it on a pedestal and makes it more likely that people will go nuts with it. Honestly, why is it seen as a good idea to lock people up for taking drugs? Is it just because it's bad for them? Because that's moronic. Honestly, when you dissect the issue... why the fuck are drugs illegal? Then legal highs are only so popular because all the good highs are illegal. Legalization also doesn't really have much effect on how many people do it, only how the quality can be regulated, and how many people get put in jail for wanting to enjoy themselves. [editline]13th June 2014[/editline] It's like alcohol. It's demonized and put on a pedestal until you hit the drinking age, so it's seen as this cool, rebellious thing and teenagers go fucking nuts with it. In the UK, we're far less responsible drinkers than anywhere I've seen in the rest of Europe, with more lenience about drinking. Even when the drinking laws aren't much different, it's still far easier to get served.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;45094699]Education makes 0 difference sorry. We're already relatively well educated, and people still take drugs. If I was fully educated about ecstasy in school, it'd make no difference about me wanting to do it.[/QUOTE] You're overestimating the knowledge of the general population when it comes to stuff like this. My experience has been that most people taking MDMA don't really know much about it at all other than "i gotta drink lots of water!!!"

The way I look at it is, if something like vicodin is sold so easily even w/ the addiction potential and toxicity (besides the fact that it is an unrelated drug), when it's sold it comes with all sorts of warnings and information. Now you don't expect everyone to pick up that information and read it, but a good amount do and avoid making themselves sick because they have properly educated themselves about it. You still have people who do not read the information, are ill-informed, and hospitalize themselves, but this happens in large quantities with off-the-shelf drugs like cough syrup or tylenol. If MDMA was legalized and regulated, sold in pharmacies or specialty shops, with a required minimum age, and a maximum in dosage that was allowed to be sold at one time, with regulations for purity and quality, with who purchased it/how much/where they purchased it all logged down in an index used by and accessible to these shops to prevent people from going around to every shop and getting a whole bunch (much like they do with sudafed, but instead of hand-written, electronic), with mandatory consultations for every new customer purchasing something, with safety information handed out; then I think that'd be the safest form of selling and consuming. You force-feed them all of the safety information before you give them the substance, all while making sure it is at a safe purity, cut with something safe if it needs to be cut, you have them sign a waiver, so you remove the accountability for the seller if something happens to the customer, because the customer has been notified of proper usage, the dose sold was restricted in quantity, the substance sold was of quality; leaving all responsibility up to the purchaser. I think that would be more prevention, and education than goes into many of the legal drugs sold over-the-counter, which would make it far more safe to sell and consume than it is today.

I think that if you're stupid enough to take enough MDMA to actually hurt yourself it's completely your own fault and not something we should go out of our way to prevent. Put warning labels on it and call it good. We can't bubble wrap everything. If you want to ignore the warnings and take too much, that's your own call to make.

why not just have it come with the same medical information most over the counter things have? small little pamphlet, people can choose to ignore it or not, but the information is there for them regardless

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45096137]why not just have it come with the same medical information most over the counter things have? small little pamphlet, people can choose to ignore it or not, but the information is there for them regardless[/QUOTE] It's still schedule 1 in the States, meaning it has no medical value. In actuality it has a lot of medical value. Just like a few other Sched 1 substances: cannabis, LSD, psilocybin, etc

"Martha Fernback's mother says she wants to make it safer for teenagers to "dabble"" Teenagers shouldn't be dabbling, it's never safe for a developing human to be doing drugs. By the time they should be dabbling (18 Years old IMO), They should be smart enough to do their research before trying. Not to mention, How was she dumb enough to try it ALL at once opposed to slowly increase with effects. Some people are just too dumb for drugs and it will always be that way no matter the amount of legalization, precaution and even education involved.