Gary Johnson is first third-party candidate since 1996 to gain ballot access in every state - Polidicks

[QUOTE=space1;51054315]Authoritarian and Libertarian = antonyms silly. YOU CAN BE A LEFT LEANING LIBERTARIAN, and in the extremes we refer to them as "anarchists".[/QUOTE] except I'm specifically talking about American Libertarianism, which is pretty much what libertarianism as an ideology is these days. the American libertarian party and the views it proposes are broadly of this failed ideology, and its a rightwing one too

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51053864]apart from 1824, 1876, 1888, and 2000[/QUOTE] They voted how they were elected to vote. They didn't go "nah were gonna vote for someone else". Do you understand how the lctoral college works?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51054593]except I'm specifically talking about American Libertarianism, which is pretty much what libertarianism as an ideology is these days. the American libertarian party and the views it proposes are broadly of this failed ideology, and its a rightwing one too[/QUOTE] An ideology that is pro gay marriage, pro abortion, and pro civil rights is 'right wing'? ok

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51054976]An ideology that is pro gay marriage, pro abortion, and pro civil rights is 'right wing'? ok[/QUOTE] Anti-taxation and anti-regulation is right wing

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51054998]Anti-taxation and anti-regulation is right wing[/QUOTE] He's wrapping up the whole thing as right wing, though, which is just objectively wrong.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51054976]An ideology that is pro gay marriage, pro abortion, and pro civil rights is 'right wing'?[/QUOTE] forcing people to marry gays, give abortions and serve black people are all against the core libertarian beliefs aka "LIBERTY" as they like to call it

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51054962]They voted how they were elected to vote. They didn't go "nah were gonna vote for someone else". Do you understand how the lctoral college works?[/QUOTE] The electoral college resulted in a vote that went against the popular vote (or in Sobotnik's words, "will of the public"). That's what he meant, and it's true.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51055566]The electoral college resulted in a vote that went against the popular vote (or in Sobotnik's words, "will of the public"). That's what he meant, and it's true.[/QUOTE] What you mean is that the electoral votes for George Bush had a higher percentage than the popular vote for him. You're making it sound like the electoral college overrode the vote, but they did exactly what they were supposed to do. We quantify votes by districts in the US, and the electoral college represented the vote of the districts

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51055706][B]What you mean is that the electoral votes for George Bush had a higher percentage than the popular vote for him.[/B] You're making it sound like the electoral college overrode the vote, [I]but they did exactly what they were supposed to do[/I]. We quantify votes by districts in the US, and the electoral college represented the vote of the districts[/QUOTE] Yeah, and that's what I said? I don't think there's anything wrong with the phrase "went against the popular vote". It literally did back in 2000. The popular vote went to Al Gore, the electoral college to Bush. Beyond just resulting in some people's votes being worth much more than others' (how democratic), this also results in battleground states getting undue attention - it isn't worth campaigning in a safe state, or a state that is too far in the other party's favour, so a small bunch of states get all the attention. Edit: To add to this - the electoral college doing "exactly what it's supposed to" doesn't matter, because the question of foul play isn't even relevant. Likewise the DNC is just doing what it's supposed (or well, lawfully allowed to at the very least) to with its super delegates, but that doesn't make that less of a democratic issue.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51054976]An ideology that is pro gay marriage, pro abortion, and pro civil rights is 'right wing'? ok[/QUOTE] it's rightwing in the sense that there's a large overlap between it and the republican party, additionally libertarianism is broadly rightwing on economic policy. as for the whole "civil rights/abortion/etc" thing, libertarianism is generally more reactive than proactive when it comes to progressive social views quite a few libertarians even want to revert various pieces of legislation protecting civil rights advances too (like allowing shops the right to discriminate against blacks)

I love the tendency of Europeans to dictate to others how their country should work, as if their country is so great haha

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51055948]I love the tendency of Europeans to dictate to others how their country should work, as if their country is so great haha[/QUOTE] We live in a connected world. Nothing wrong with giving input on what others are doing And seriously have you not noticed the swaths of americans doing the same to them, especially regarding the refugee crisis?

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51055948]I love the tendency of Europeans to dictate to others how their country should work, as if their country is so great haha[/QUOTE] The US is of course well-known for not meddling in other countries' affairs. Anyway, feel free to criticise Denmark if you want to - maybe your country's a little different, but generally it's not frowned upon to voice an opinion on political matters, especially on a, y'know, [I]forum[/I].

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51055948]I love the tendency of Europeans to dictate to others how their country should work, as if their country is so great haha[/QUOTE] america has the worst healthcare system of any developed country in the world even in its underfunded and dysfunctional state i trust the NHS with my life more than most Americans trust their doctors to not bleed them dry

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51055995]america has the worst healthcare system of any developed country in the world even in its underfunded and dysfunctional state i trust the NHS with my life more than most Americans trust their doctors to not bleed them dry[/QUOTE] When did we start talking about healthcare

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51056027]When did we start talking about healthcare[/QUOTE] the point is that some european nations do better than america in certain key areas

[QUOTE=krutomisi;51055122]forcing people to marry gays, give abortions and serve black people are all against the core libertarian beliefs aka "LIBERTY" as they like to call it[/QUOTE] So you would infer that Libertarians would allow slavery because it would be against their "core beliefs" to stop it? Or would you assume that their basic moral compass would direct them to the idea that maybe it is a bad idea and we should stop that, like we stopped all the other things that are currently illegal?

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51056050]So you would infer that Libertarians would allow slavery because it would be against their "core beliefs" to stop it? Or would you assume that their basic moral compass would direct them to the idea that maybe it is a bad idea and we should stop that, like we stopped all the other things that are currently illegal?[/QUOTE] there are schools of thought amongst the libertarians whereby selling yourself into a form of indentured servitude/slavery are considered acceptable

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51056027]When did we start talking about healthcare[/QUOTE] you started shitting on European countries for no reason at all so he cited a key example where many European states outperform the US, which is healthcare

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51050545]Well, I'd prefer a party to have a clear 51% majority than to have, for example, a single right wing party garner 30% of the vote, while 5 left wing parties each get 14%. In this scenario, a unified left wing party would have won over the single conservative party, but the conservatives would have the plurality. Also, the two political parties tend to align pretty well with peoples' beliefs I think. If you're pro-choice, you're probably pro-gay marriage, and you're also probably for healthcare reform. liberal policies correlate with other liberal policies. In fact, Hillary Clinton represents the liberal agenda far more than Obama did. If people are unhappy with the candidate, there've been ways to reform the parties and the platform, such that the republican party went from being the party of lincoln (modern day liberal) to the party of reagan (modern day conservative), while the democratic party went from being a party chiefly concerned with preserving slavery to the party which passed the voting rights act and defended the franchise for black voters. Popular sentiment causes parties and their platforms to change with the will of people.[/QUOTE] but thats literally exactly what third parties do in your system??? if there's a left leaning third party with any amount of exposure it'll just siphon votes from the larger left leaning party while accomplishing absolutely NOTHING first past the post is just bad. ideally each party should get representation roughly equal to the proportion of votes they garnered

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51056066]there are schools of thought amongst the libertarians whereby selling yourself into a form of indentured servitude/slavery are considered acceptable[/QUOTE] There are schools of thought in any denomination that advocate all sorts of extreme views. That doesn't excuse gross generalizations of that group. By the same logic, he could have said that The Children of God are an accurate representation of Christians.

Once again, it is quite amusing that people are complaining about Europeans 'dictating' what the Americans should do with their political system. Not our fault that we're suggesting ways to fix the broken American political system. For the record, I have the exact same criticisms when it comes to the British political system. FTFP needs to go.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51054998]Anti-taxation and anti-regulation is right wing[/QUOTE] But that's only the economical side of things, and it ignores the social aspect. [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51056151]Once again, it is quite amusing that people are complaining about Europeans 'dictating' what the Americans should do with their political system. Not our fault that we're suggesting ways to fix the broken American political system. For the record, I have the exact same criticisms when it comes to the British political system. FTFP needs to go.[/QUOTE] I get that, but maybe you guys should actually come up with some objectively good ways to do so :v: [QUOTE=Sobotnik;51056066]there are schools of thought amongst the libertarians whereby selling yourself into a form of indentured servitude/slavery are considered acceptable[/QUOTE] There are schools of thought where people blindly ignore what other people are trying to tell them(And you may be a part of it!!)

[QUOTE=space1;51056447]But that's only the economical side of things, and it ignores the social aspect.[/QUOTE] libertarianism mostly just seems to piggyback off the democrats social policies also why pick libertarianism when you can adopt the stuff which works without taking the whole terrible ideology?

[QUOTE=space1;51056447]I get that, but maybe you guys should actually come up with some objectively good ways to do so :v:[/QUOTE] Simply going for the alternate vote instead of FPTP would be a great improvement. Doing away with the electoral college and just having a popular vote instead would be an improvement on that. Of course there are other parts of the system that could be changed as well.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51056530]libertarianism mostly just seems to piggyback off the democrats social policies also why pick libertarianism when you can adopt the stuff which works without taking the whole terrible ideology?[/QUOTE] Because we aren't gifted with the privilege to vote for our ideal candidate. Instead we get 1 of 2 package deals, and a few on the side that won't go anywhere. There is a reason I am registered independent.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51056572]Because we aren't gifted with the privilege to vote for our ideal candidate. Instead we get 1 of 2 package deals, and a few on the side that won't go anywhere. There is a reason I am registered independent.[/QUOTE] gary johnson has a great host of terrible policies though

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51056577]gary johnson has a great host of terrible policies though[/QUOTE] they all do what's your point

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51056577]gary johnson has a great host of terrible policies though[/QUOTE] So does Trump. So does Clinton. What is your recommended course of action?

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGAO100hYcQ[/media] if you agree at all with this video you are a monster btw