Israel seizes solar panels donated to Palestinians by Dutch government - Polidicks

Let me just say that, if you really have lived in the region your whole life, and are serving in the military, you're infinitely more likely to be indoctrinated than someone from another country with a rational perspective on the situation...

[QUOTE=Quark:;52450976]Let me just say that, if you really have lived in the region your whole life, and are serving in the military, you're infinitely more likely to be indoctrinated than someone from another country with a rational perspective on the situation...[/QUOTE] Please tell us more about how your perspective is more rational, especially when you live in a country that faces no significant military threat, experiences almost no terror attacks, and that isn't surrounded by enemies willing to carry out a genocide against your country's people. Stop acting morally superior and actually look at it from the point of view of people that are threatened instead of playing armchair general.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52451002]Please tell us more about how your perspective is more rational, especially when you live in a country that faces no significant military threat, experiences almost no terror attacks, and that isn't surrounded by enemies willing to carry out a genocide against your country's people. Stop acting morally superior and actually look at it from the point of view of people that are threatened instead of playing armchair general.[/QUOTE] You literally just explained yourself. You grew up in a place where everyone hates the people of Gaza and any action by the IDF is seen as self defense. Even if they are just shooting farmers. Your perspective is biased. I don't particularly like or dislike either Gaza or Israel. I am not biased towards either one, I have no reason to. Even looking from your point of view, an official army breaking international humanitarian laws is still wrong.

If Israel really cared about making peace they wouldn't do shit like this that is only guaranteed to sow resentment. Seriously, what does taking their shit and destroying it actually accomplish other than make them even more angry at you? Because they didn't get "permits" they would have been denied anyway? Give me a break. If they wanted peace they'd be HELPING places like this instead of stomping them under the heel of their boot. Israel needs to act like "the better man" in this conflict.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52451002]Please tell us more about how your perspective is more rational, especially when you live in a country that faces no significant military threat, experiences almost no terror attacks, and that isn't surrounded by enemies willing to carry out a genocide against your country's people. Stop acting morally superior and actually look at it from the point of view of people that are threatened instead of playing armchair general.[/QUOTE] It's not about moral superiority, it's about perspective. Being actively involved in the scenario in question limits your view of the situation, as does observing it from without.

How does that exactly limit my perspective? I live in a democratic country and was exposed to both left wing and right wing politics. Regarding the fact that most of my childhood i spent in fear of the wave of qassam rockets in the early 2000s, i was still open to a lot of different opinions. The area i'm currently living in (Sharon district) has a lot of diversity in opinions and ideas. I was mostly supporting Meretz (left wing party) until i chose to be in the center. The fact that i chose to enlist to a combat role was following the events of Operation Protective Edge. You have any idea how absurd that statement was? I live in Israel not fucking North Korea. The fact that you guys think that viewing from the side is better perspective wise is even more dumb, especially when people like joost and Quark were spouting insane bullshit you mostly hear from college students. My views and opinions are varied, unlike yours that compose of double standards, false facts and one sided politics (literally saying Hamas wants to go back to 1967 boarders... Jesus)

[QUOTE=RzDat;52451284]How does that exactly limit my perspective? I live in a democratic country and was exposed to both left wing and right wing politics. Regarding the fact that most of my childhood i spent in fear of the wave of qassam rockets in the early 2000s, i was still open to a lot of different opinions. The area i'm currently living in (Sharon district) has a lot of diversity in opinions and ideas. I was mostly supporting Meretz (left wing party) until i chose to be in the center. The fact that i chose to enlist to a combat role was following the events of Operation Protective Edge. You have any idea how absurd that statement was? I live in Israel not fucking North Korea. The fact that you guys think that viewing from the side is better perspective wise is even more dumb, especially when people like joost and Quark were spouting insane bullshit you mostly hear from college students. My views and opinions are varied, unlike yours that compose of double standards, false facts and one sided politics (literally saying Hamas wants to go back to 1967 boarders... Jesus)[/QUOTE] Jesus, imagine saying Hamas wants to go back to 1967 borders. [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders"]That would literally never happen![/URL] You grew up in a place that the people of Gaza oppose. Of course you're going to be biased against them. You keep claiming my facts are false but provide no proof. All of your arguments are based on your own opinions.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52451308]Jesus, imagine saying Hamas wants to go back to 1967 borders. [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders"]That would literally never happen![/URL] You grew up in a place that the people of Gaza oppose. Of course you're going to be biased against them. You keep claiming my facts are false but provide no proof. All of your arguments are based on your own opinions.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The policy platform was announced by the head of the movement’s political bureau, Khaled Meshal, at a press conference in Doha. “Hamas advocates the liberation of all of Palestine but is ready to support the state on 1967 borders without recognising Israel or ceding any rights,” he said. [/QUOTE] Recognition of Israel is an essential part of the peace process, it literally changes nothing.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52451330]Recognition of Israel is an essential part of the peace process, it literally changes nothing.[/QUOTE] And blockading Gaza was in direct violation with the ceasefires. Not breaking the agreement is also an essential part of the peace process. It goes both ways. They propose peace. You turn it away because you feel offended.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52451364]And blockading Gaza was in direct violation with the ceasefires. Not breaking the agreement is also an essential part of the peace process. It goes both ways. They propose peace. You turn it away because you feel offended.[/QUOTE] Israel offered the Palestinians everything they wanted in 2008 and Palestinians rejected it. Israel literally offered to give up the holiest site in Judaism in order for peace and Abbas rejected it out of hand. Again, do research before making stupid claims. Blockading Gaza was not in violation of the ceasefires in Protective Edge and Cast Lead, the ceasefires in those wars were to simply stop shooting at each other for long enough that the wounded could be treated and Hamas broke those ceasefires every time.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52451364]And blockading Gaza was in direct violation with the ceasefires. Not breaking the agreement is also an essential part of the peace process. It goes both ways. They propose peace. You turn it away because you feel offended.[/QUOTE] Why bother accepting the 1967 borders of you can't even accept the fact that israel is here to stay? Seems incredibly childish to me, especially when if[b] fucking took more than 10 years [/b]for them to accept it. You know what wonders blockading Gaza did? Not only it stopped the insane amount of suicide bombing in Israel, but the civilian casualities were significantly decreased since the blockade came to effect.

Great if you think the blockades helped, but it was literally in direct violation of their own ceasefire agreement. They broke it and then blamed Hamas for responding to it. [QUOTE]Understanding Regarding Ceasefire in Gaza Strip 1.a. Israel shall stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip land, sea and air including incursions and targeting of individuals. b. All Palestinian factions shall stop all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel including rocket attacks, and all attacks along the border. c. Opening the crossings and facilitating the movements of people and transfer of goods, and refraining from restricting residents' free movements, and targeting residents in border areas and procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire. d. Other matters as may be requested shall be addressed. 2. Implementation Mechanism: a. Setting up the zero hour for the Ceasefire Understanding to enter into effect. b. Egypt shall receive assurances from each party that the party commits to what was agreed upon. c. Each party shall commit itself not to perform any acts that would breach this understanding. In case of any observations, Egypt – as the sponsor of this understanding – shall be informed to follow up. [/QUOTE] You keep saying Hamas is the one that keeps breaking these ceasefires, when Israel broke them just as much. They shot farmers during this ceasefire too. That's behaviour you can expect of a terrorist, not from an official military force. If the Netherlands and Germany were in this situation and Germany shot civilians during a ceasefires and maintained a blockade even though the ceasefire specifically bans it, I wouldn't want peace either.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52451453]Great if you think the blockades helped, but it was literally in direct violation of their own ceasefire agreement. They broke it and then blamed Hamas for responding to it. You keep saying Hamas is the one that keeps breaking these ceasefires, when Israel broke them just as much. They shot farmers during this ceasefire too. That's behaviour you can expect of a terrorist, not from an official military force. If the Netherlands and Germany were in this situation and Germany shot civilians during a ceasefires and maintained a blockade even though the ceasefire specifically bans it, I wouldn't want peace either.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]c. Opening the crossings and facilitating the movements of people and transfer of goods, and refraining from restricting residents' free movements, and targeting residents in border areas and procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire. [/QUOTE] The ceasefire doesn't ban it, it says that it'll be discussed 24 hours after the start. Dealt with does not equal will be done, it means will be discussed.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52451520]The ceasefire doesn't ban it, it says that it'll be discussed 24 hours after the start. Dealt with does not equal will be done, it means will be discussed.[/QUOTE] The blockade would be gradually opened, but Israel didn't hold up that end of the bargain.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52451531]The blockade would be gradually opened, but Israel didn't hold up that end of the bargain.[/QUOTE] Source that? It says nowhere in the actual ceasefire declaration that that would actually happen.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52451534]Source that? It says nowhere in the actual ceasefire declaration that that would actually happen.[/QUOTE] Dealt with means the blockade will be gradually lifted after 24 hours. "Opening the crossings and facilitating the movement of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents' free movements and targeting residents in border areas. Procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire. " [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/9694410/Gaza-Israel-Hamas-ceasefire-agreement-in-full.html"]Several [/URL][URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-20436699"]different news sites [/URL][URL="http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012112117122494611.html"]all report it as such.[/URL]

[QUOTE=joost1120;52451608]Dealt with means the blockade will be gradually lifted after 24 hours. "Opening the crossings and facilitating the movement of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents' free movements and targeting residents in border areas. Procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire. " [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/9694410/Gaza-Israel-Hamas-ceasefire-agreement-in-full.html"]Several [/URL][URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-20436699"]different news sites [/URL][URL="http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/11/2012112117122494611.html"]all report it as such.[/URL][/QUOTE] You do realize that right now the Israeli blockade fulfills all of the criteria for that? [QUOTE]"Opening the crossings and facilitating the movement of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents' free movements and targeting residents in border areas. Procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire. "[/QUOTE] Erez is open for people, another crossing is open for supplies. If you have the papers to get out, you can get out. Israel doesn't target civilians that are next to the border outside of the 300m buffer zone. They asked Israel to start reverting the crossings to the status quo and Israel agreed to it/

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52451673]You do realize that right now the Israeli blockade fulfills all of the criteria for that? Erez is open for people, another crossing is open for supplies. If you have the papers to get out, you can get out. Israel doesn't target civilians that are next to the border outside of the 300m buffer zone. They asked Israel to start reverting the crossings to the status quo and Israel agreed to it/[/QUOTE] Right now is the key word. If you have the papers, you can get out. [URL="https://www.voanews.com/a/israel-increases-interrogations-of-gazan-travelers/3520616.html"]That is, if you're lucky enough not to taken into questioning for hours.[/URL] This article also talks about the increasing percentage of rejected travel permits. To say the Erez crossing is open is like saying the US president's personal quarters are open. Sure with permission you can enter, but most applying for the permit are denied. Attempting to trespass will get you shot without warning. You should read [URL="https://www.amnesty.org.uk/gaza-questions"]this[/URL]. It talks about a lot of the humanitarian law violations in Gaza by both Israel and Hamas. Maybe it'll open your eyes.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52451002]Please tell us more about how your perspective is more rational, especially when you live in a country that faces no significant military threat, experiences almost no terror attacks, and that isn't surrounded by enemies willing to carry out a genocide against your country's people. Stop acting morally superior and actually look at it from the point of view of people that are threatened instead of playing armchair general.[/QUOTE] Like joost said, your post explains what I was saying. You are from an area where everyone hates the residents of Gaza and anything done to them is self-defense - this is your perspective and it's heavily biased or indoctrinated (depending on how aggressively you defend it eg. [I]heavily[/I]) Then from over here we see the innocent people needlessly having their homes bombed remotely by a much more technologically advanced nation who already has several anti-missile programs ongoing that shoot down incoming projectiles (and high safety statistics of its employment as well as decreasing in price over time) you don't see it?

[QUOTE=Quark:;52452298]Like joost said, your post explains what I was saying. You are from an area where everyone hates the residents of Gaza and anything done to them is self-defense - this is your perspective and it's heavily biased or indoctrinated (depending on how aggressively you defend it eg. [I]heavily[/I]) Then from over here we see the innocent people needlessly having their homes bombed remotely by a much more technologically advanced nation who already has several anti-missile programs ongoing that shoot down incoming projectiles (and high safety statistics of its employment as well as decreasing in price over time) you don't see it?[/QUOTE] By "we" you mean one, less than majority, segment of the population.

[QUOTE=Quark:;52452298]Like joost said, your post explains what I was saying. You are from an area where everyone hates the residents of Gaza and anything done to them is self-defense - this is your perspective and it's heavily biased or indoctrinated (depending on how aggressively you defend it eg. [I]heavily[/I]) Then from over here we see the innocent people needlessly having their homes bombed remotely by a much more technologically advanced nation who already has several anti-missile programs ongoing that shoot down incoming projectiles (and high safety statistics of its employment as well as decreasing in price over time) you don't see it?[/QUOTE] Sure, then don't mind me calling jihadists in London "freedom fighters" who fight against islamophobia and racism while british people who are traumatized by the attacks are heavily biased against jihadists... Because from my perspective they are just trying to stop the hate! Experience is better than reading a few internet articles. You should know that good.

[QUOTE=RzDat;52452865]Sure, then don't mind me calling jihadists in London "freedom fighters" who fight against islamophobia and racism while british people who are traumatized by the attacks are heavily biased against jihadists... Because from my perspective they are just trying to stop the hate! Experience is better than reading a few internet articles. You should know that good.[/QUOTE] Well no, because jihadists in London aren't trying to free anyone. In fact they cause more racism and islamophobia. The terrorists in Palestine fight against the occupying force to attempt freeing it from the grip of Israel. Because under Israel's rule, Palestinian civilians will live a good life. Experience is better in some cases. But would you say a North Korean soldier isn't heavily biased against South Korea? After all, they grew up there and know the(ir own) situation better. Now you're probably going to be outraged that I'm comparing Israel and North Korea, which I'm not. I'm just comparing the soldiers. If it makes you any happier, South Korean soldiers are just as biased.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52429442]Believe me, if Israel wanted to kill all of the Palestinians, we would already done it. [editline]3rd July 2017[/editline] Eh, depends. Regardless, if they had requested the permit first and then done this, I would understand but they didn't even bother to request the permit.[/QUOTE] Never seen this kind of open exhibition of arrogance from anybody else in modern world, other than from Zionist. It's amusing, even You guys really lived up to everybody's expectation for a rogue country. And they will do it again. Still remember how Zionist pillaged ships from those flotillas that were carrying humanitary aids for Palestine, and even slaughtering one or two of the members. Disgusting

[QUOTE=hakimhakim;52467835]Never seen this kind of open exhibition of arrogance from anybody else in modern world, other than from Zionist. It's amusing, even You guys really lived up to everybody's expectation for a rogue country. And they will do it again. Still remember how Zionist pillaged ships from those flotillas that were carrying humanitary aids for Palestine, and even slaughtering one or two of the members. Disgusting[/QUOTE] This is pure gold coming from an actual anti semite [QUOTE=hakimhakim;51599753]Can rats swim from the desert to New Zealand? Probably, if their noses weren't so big [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racism" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] I hope your vile anti semetic hatred backfires one day. btw how's life in a 3rd world islamic shithole

[QUOTE=Sheva;52468275]This is pure gold coming from an actual anti semite I hope your vile anti semetic hatred backfires one day. btw how's life in a 3rd world islamic shithole[/QUOTE] I am anti-Zionist, not anti-Jew/Semites. Try to distinguish the difference. Antisemitism is hostility, prejudice, or discrimination directed against Jews 'race'. I on the other hand, in opposition of the 'country' - Israel way of doing things, which is founded by Zionism. A Zionist is not the same as Jew. That 'rat' reference is a reference to Israel-Zionist trying to threaten New Zealand at that time, not Jew-race. You're just trying to paint me as a bad guy because you failed to disapprove that actual events that I mentioned. Try to stick with subject matter. Not petty personal squabble.

[QUOTE=hakimhakim;52468301]I am anti-Zionist, not anti-Jew/Semites. Try to distinguish the difference. Antisemitism is hostility, prejudice, or discrimination directed against Jews race I'm in opposition of the 'country' - Israel way of doing things, which is founded by Zionism. That 'rat' reference is a reference to Israel-Zionist trying to threaten New Zealand at that time, not Jew-race. You're just trying to paint me as a bad guy because you failed disapproved that actual events that I mentioned. Try to stick with subject matter. Not petty personal squabble.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=hakimhakim;45320883]After forcefully occupying other's established country, shooting their childrens, raping their womens, building walls accross their lawn, do you seriously expect them to send you brownies instead? Maybe Hitler do have a point after all. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Antisemitism" - Starpluck))[/highlight][/QUOTE] getting banned by Starpluck for antisemitism that's got to be a record or something

[QUOTE=Sheva;52468309]getting banned by Starpluck for antisemitism that's got to be a record or something[/QUOTE] If you believe one man decision is to be considered the pillar of all that is righteous and holy, then you can put that in your own record. And again, try to argue with fact regarding the heart of the matter, not the cheap way of slanders against your opposition. And, lets just say that I'm hypothetically a being made of pure evil, and a DNA-test-approved child of Satan like you tried so hard to propose, that still does not make the proven repeating aggressions against the effort for Palestine well-being by Israel, less true.

[QUOTE=hakimhakim;52468315]If you believe one man decision is to be considered the pillar of all that is righteous and holy, then you can put that in your own record. And again, try to argue with fact regarding the heart of the matter, not the cheap way of slanders against your opposition.[/QUOTE] So far it's been a 2 man decision but ok also the heart of the matter is that you're an anti semitic piece of shit and anything you say amounts to nothing. it's honestly amazing you've not been permabanned. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Kiwi))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Sheva;52468330]So far it's been a 2 man decision but ok also the heart of the matter is that you're an anti semitic piece of shit and anything you say amounts to nothing. it's honestly amazing you've not been permabanned.[/QUOTE] If insulting me is indeed your perceived heart of the matter, or makes you feel better, then feel free to proceed. But according to Human Right Watch World Report 2017, approximately 70 percent of Gaza’s 1.9 million people rely on humanitarian assistance. [url]https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/israel/palestine[/url] Israel's habits of cutting the aids means disaster for that amount of Palestinians. And even more, if we include the area outside of Gaza. The aids are coming from the outside, which means the aggression is also directly perpetrated against the international community that participates. The Palestinian's effort to sustain themselves also is restricted, because Israel maintained severe restrictions on the movement of people and goods into and out of Gaza, exacerbated by Egypt’s closure of its own border with Gaza most of the time, and by Israel’s refusal to allow Gaza to operate an airport or seaport.

[QUOTE=hakimhakim;52467835]Never seen this kind of open exhibition of arrogance from anybody else in modern world, other than from Zionist. It's amusing, even You guys really lived up to everybody's expectation for a rogue country. And they will do it again. Still remember how Zionist pillaged ships from those flotillas that were carrying humanitary aids for Palestine, and even slaughtering one or two of the members. Disgusting[/QUOTE] please read about the facts of the flotilla case, the "humanitarian aid" onboard were hidden weapons. Israel stopped them from violating the blockade against gaza and told them they would be taken to Ashdod so it could be determined if they were bringing in humanitarian aid or weapons. The activists then attacked the soldiers that boarded the ship. Turns out that the "humanitarian aid" contained weapons, camouflage clothing, expired medication and building materials that were not allowed into Gaza because Hamas would use it for building tunnels. When Israel tried to deliver the remaining materials into Gaza, Hamas actually refused the aid and only accepted it when the UN intervened. One of the people on that flotilla was a member of the Knesset named Haneen Zoabi. She's a member of the Israeli knesset and hates Israel with a burning passion. She's gone so far as to call the Hamas kidnapping and murder of three Israeli civilian teenagers as not an act of terror. Despite all this, she still serves in the Knesset. What "rogue state" would allow such a person to live, let alone serve in the national parliment? Israel has had multiple chances to wipe out significant Palestinian populations and has never used those chances. If Israel was interested in killing all Palestinians, Israel would have jumped at all of those chances. Please educate yourself instead of listening to Malay propaganda.