Israel seizes solar panels donated to Palestinians by Dutch government - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52431401]It's only recently that the Palestinians started paying their power bill, before that Israel was forced to provide power to the West Bank without being compensated. Before then, it was hard to convince Israel to connect any Palestinian town in the West Bank to the electrical grid. Reading over a summary of the village ([URL="http://vprofile.arij.org/bethlehem/pdfs/VP/Jubbet_Adh_Dhib_vp_en.pdf"]http://vprofile.arij.org/bethlehem/pdfs/VP/Jubbet_Adh_Dhib_vp_en.pdf[/URL]) I saw this: Projects committee likely fucked up somewhere or this is a move against the PA because the PA refuses to stop paying terrorists, both are equally as likely.[/QUOTE] Why didn't you post this passage from your article when inferring the motivations behind blocked developments in this town? [QUOTE]Furthermore, Jubbet adh Dhib village is located in an area under full Israeli control, and according to the Oslo Agreement signed between Palestine Liberation Organization and Israel in 1995, the population must obtain license from the Civil Administration of the Israeli army to be able to build and use their lands for any purpose whatsoever. However, this is considered impossible because of the onerous conditions imposed by the Israeli occupation authorities to obtain permits. [B]Not to mention the adoption of the Israeli civil administration of the deliberate policy of neglect of planning and development of the Palestinian villages located in area C, such as Jubbet adh Dhib village, in order to force the residents to leave voluntarily and to move from their land and villages to other areas.[/B][/QUOTE] Your paper details previous projects the Israeli military also denied permits for, and other basic needs unmet within the village and contrasts these conditions with benefits currently provided to an Israeli settlement bordering the town. It seems that this town has been denied permits [I]systematically[/I] for [URL="https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/12/19/separate-and-unequal/israels-discriminatory-treatment-palestinians-occupied"]years[/URL]. I don't get how Israelis aren't embarrassed by their government for facilitating conditions in a town under it's administration where construction of a sewer system is considered relatively [I]low priority[/I] because the place doesn't have adequate roads, water systems, or even fucking [I]bins[/I] to put trash into. If Israel wants to maintain control of area C they ought to focus on developing the region, and not just for Israeli settlers. This seems like an obvious way of undermining Hamas and the PA. If you improve the lives of the people living in area C regardless of whatever bullshit the PA tries to pull, the people living there are more likely to side with Israel. Prosperity is more likely to bring peace. Quit hiding behind bureaucratic red tape, quit hiding behind financial strain since these projects are being carried out with foreign resources, and actually be decent stewards of the lands and people you were given authority over. Quit blaming the Palestinians for a system Israel designed that denies permits ~94% of the time Palestinians apply.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52436706]Like you said, Israel could have genocided them at any point in time. I have a feeling that's what's coming. There's literally no other answer, and baring the Palestinians electing a friendly government to Israel(which won't happen) that's what will have to happen for Israel to feel it's keeping itself safe.[/QUOTE] Hopefully other countrys would jump in and steamrolled israel if they decide to commit genocide

[QUOTE=joost1120;52438669]My point is, if Israel really wants peace, why do they create their own enemies? There is no bigger motivation to fight an enemy than him blowing up houses in your neighbourhood, except for maybe killing your family. There's such an inappropriate escalation of force. Even without these bombings. If Palestinian kids throw rocks at soldiers, they risk getting shot (Not 100% legal according to Israel themselves, but it's happened before several times). While I 100% don't approve of the kids' actions, thrown rocks can cause serious damage, the soldiers just completely skips several steps in escalation of force.[/QUOTE] As it's been said 23 times prior, the Hamas isn't after Israel because Israel bombs Gaza. The Hamas wants Israel gone because Israel is full of Jews. You're viewing the Hamas like they're a sensible organization; they're not. They're a group of xenophobic ass holes who want to kill people that are different than them merely because they occupy holy land they could freely visit if they weren't ass holes. [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=joost1120;52438749]Considering Russian troops can assassinate leaders in ISIS camps, Israel should be able to send a few men to recover the weapons.[/QUOTE] Yea remember when Russia assassinated the leader of ISIS and ISIS just ceased to exist and the war stopped? Or when the US took out Osama Bin Laden and the war on terror ended all over the globe? Or when the US killed Sadaam Husein and the war in Iraq ended and didn't go on for another decade? Or when Joseph Stalin stroked out and the Soviet Union dissolved? oh wait... Killing leaders does not end terrorist groups. Taking away their weapons doesn't stop them from getting more. Why risk the lives of your own men to recover weapons when you can just send in a jet and a smart bomb to do the job without the risk to your men? [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Radical_ed;52438768]Relating back to the topic, I really fail to see how stealing a QOL improvement and potential livelihood from people is supposed to dissuade people from becoming terrorists. Seems kinda counter-productive from an economic influence point of view, also it's kind of an asshole move.[/QUOTE] It's just Israel being petty. Israel very clearly does not like the people of Gaza, not enough to commit genocide or purposefully kill them, but enough to deny them basic human rights.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52439045] It's just Israel being petty. Israel very clearly does not like the people of Gaza, not enough to commit genocide or purposefully kill them, but enough to deny them basic human rights.[/QUOTE] West Bank, not Gaza.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52439045]As it's been said 23 times prior, the Hamas isn't after Israel because Israel bombs Gaza. The Hamas wants Israel gone because Israel is full of Jews. You're viewing the Hamas like they're a sensible organization; they're not. They're a group of xenophobic ass holes who want to kill people that are different than them merely because they occupy holy land they could freely visit if they weren't ass holes. [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] Yea remember when Russia assassinated the leader of ISIS and ISIS just ceased to exist and the war stopped? Or when the US took out Osama Bin Laden and the war on terror ended all over the globe? Or when the US killed Sadaam Husein and the war in Iraq ended and didn't go on for another decade? Or when Joseph Stalin stroked out and the Soviet Union dissolved? oh wait... Killing leaders does not end terrorist groups. Taking away their weapons doesn't stop them from getting more. Why risk the lives of your own men to recover weapons when you can just send in a jet and a smart bomb to do the job without the risk to your men? [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] It's just Israel being petty. Israel very clearly does not like the people of Gaza, not enough to commit genocide or purposefully kill them, but enough to deny them basic human rights.[/QUOTE] Hamas as an organization isn't sensible, but people join them because houses in their neighbourhood are being bombed. I don't know how you can't understand this, but if someone bombs your town, you're not going to like them. [QUOTE]Yea remember when Russia assassinated the leader of ISIS and ISIS just ceased to exist and the war stopped? Or when the US took out Osama Bin Laden and the war on terror ended all over the globe? Or when the US killed Sadaam Husein and the war in Iraq ended and didn't go on for another decade? Or when Joseph Stalin stroked out and the Soviet Union dissolved? [/QUOTE] And that is relevant how? I talked about assassination of ISIS leaders not because of the assassination, but because it's an example of troops in a hostile base performing objectives without casualties. [QUOTE]Why risk the lives of your own men to recover weapons when you can just send in a jet and a smart bomb to do the job without the risk to your men?[/QUOTE] So why don't you just drop a nuclear bomb on Palestine?

[QUOTE=joost1120;52439458]Hamas as an organization isn't sensible, but people join them because houses in their neighbourhood are being bombed. I don't know how you can't understand this, but if someone bombs your town, you're not going to like them. And that is relevant how? I talked about assassination of ISIS leaders not because of the assassination, but because it's an example of troops in a hostile base performing objectives without casualties. So why don't you just drop a nuclear bomb on Palestine?[/QUOTE] Killing someone and moving a lot of rockets are very different operations. [IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8OKCbR83zXA/TrFp3NKNfxI/AAAAAAAAFsk/85QuVrsMNRM/s1600/qassam_7.jpg[/IMG] Each are around 22 pounds. This is on the smaller side of the rockets Hamas has. [IMG]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/images/hamas-rockets-2008-5.jpg[/IMG] How do you infiltrate an enemy state, find their well hidden rocket supplies, and carry it away? People join Hamas because it's often the only work that they can find and they like Hamas's charity work. We don't drop a nuke on Palestine because it's a genocidal war crime? [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=1legmidget;52438809]Why didn't you post this passage from your article when inferring the motivations behind blocked developments in this town? Your paper details previous projects the Israeli military also denied permits for, and other basic needs unmet within the village and contrasts these conditions with benefits currently provided to an Israeli settlement bordering the town. It seems that this town has been denied permits [I]systematically[/I] for [URL="https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/12/19/separate-and-unequal/israels-discriminatory-treatment-palestinians-occupied"]years[/URL]. I don't get how Israelis aren't embarrassed by their government for facilitating conditions in a town under it's administration where construction of a sewer system is considered relatively [I]low priority[/I] because the place doesn't have adequate roads, water systems, or even fucking [I]bins[/I] to put trash into. If Israel wants to maintain control of area C they ought to focus on developing the region, and not just for Israeli settlers. This seems like an obvious way of undermining Hamas and the PA. If you improve the lives of the people living in area C regardless of whatever bullshit the PA tries to pull, the people living there are more likely to side with Israel. Prosperity is more likely to bring peace. Quit hiding behind bureaucratic red tape, quit hiding behind financial strain since these projects are being carried out with foreign resources, and actually be decent stewards of the lands and people you were given authority over. Quit blaming the Palestinians for a system Israel designed that denies permits ~94% of the time Palestinians apply.[/QUOTE] I'll look more into it, you brought up some interesting points.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52439655]Killing someone and moving a lot of rockets are very different operations. [IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8OKCbR83zXA/TrFp3NKNfxI/AAAAAAAAFsk/85QuVrsMNRM/s1600/qassam_7.jpg[/IMG] Each are around 22 pounds. This is on the smaller side of the rockets Hamas has. [IMG]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/images/hamas-rockets-2008-5.jpg[/IMG] How do you infiltrate an enemy state, find their well hidden rocket supplies, and carry it away? People join Hamas because it's often the only work that they can find and they like Hamas's charity work. We don't drop a nuke on Palestine because it's a genocidal war crime? [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] I'll look more into it, you brought up some interesting points.[/QUOTE] Well I'm just trying to come up with ideas. Sure seems better than continuing to massacre civilians in the off chance of killing a terrorist. And even if only civilians die, it doesn't matter. They're all terrorists anyway.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52440153]Well I'm just trying to come up with ideas. Sure seems better than continuing to massacre civilians in the off chance of killing a terrorist. And even if only civilians die, it doesn't matter. They're all terrorists anyway.[/QUOTE] That's a really shit strawman, maybe read some of my posts where I explain how this isn't equivalent to massacring civilians instead of making up zingers that show that you have no knowledge of the conflict and refuse to listen to arguments that don't fit your mental image of the conflict.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52440208]That's a really shit strawman, maybe read some of my posts where I explain how this isn't equivalent to massacring civilians instead of making up zingers that show that you have no knowledge of the conflict and refuse to listen to arguments that don't fit your mental image of the conflict.[/QUOTE] just try and imagine what it would be like to live in an area where the people opposing your existance say things like "we could wipe them out if we wanted to" This conflict ONLY ends when the last people supporting Palestine are dead, I really don't see it going another way because there's a strong sentiment from you and the others in the thread justifying this that this is the best case scenario. If the best case scenario means engaging in a never ending war where you create the enemies you don't want to massacre, then what other than genocide do you suggest? You've made it clear the middle ground is unsustainable, you've made it clear that the democratization of the palestinian region isn't possible or something israel supports because last time they just went with Hamas, so what other option is there? Fucking endless bloodshed or genocide. That's the options. You seem far too comfortable with those.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52440208]That's a really shit strawman, maybe read some of my posts where I explain how this isn't equivalent to massacring civilians instead of making up zingers that show that you have no knowledge of the conflict and refuse to listen to arguments that don't fit your mental image of the conflict.[/QUOTE] Same to you. All you're saying is that you can't do anything about terrorists, except bomb them, giving the population even more reason to hate you.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52440311]just try and imagine what it would be like to live in an area where the people opposing your existance say things like "we could wipe them out if we wanted to" This conflict ONLY ends when the last people supporting Palestine are dead, I really don't see it going another way because there's a strong sentiment from you and the others in the thread justifying this that this is the best case scenario. If the best case scenario means engaging in a never ending war where you create the enemies you don't want to massacre, then what other than genocide do you suggest? You've made it clear the middle ground is unsustainable, you've made it clear that the democratization of the palestinian region isn't possible or something israel supports because last time they just went with Hamas, so what other option is there? Fucking endless bloodshed or genocide. That's the options. You seem far too comfortable with those.[/QUOTE] After the Gaza elections, Israel didn't "just go along with Hamas". Israel actively aided Fatah in the Palestinian Civil war when Hamas forcibly split from Fatah and the rest of the PA. Palestinians in Gaza voted Hamas, Hamas split off from Fatah and they are currently trying to make up but it's not going to happen since Hamas will take over the West Bank when Abbas dies and Abbas has only a few years of life left. I have no problem with the existence of Palestinians, I feel sorry for Palestinians under Hamas or the PA but that's how things worked out. Their government is a danger to them and to Israel. Israel has offered their government very generous peace plans, especially in 2008, and their government keeps on refusing these generous plans. To claim that I support the genocide of Palestinians is wrong, I don't want random civilians to be killed for no reason. The situation in Gaza sadly means that civilians will die but Israel is doing the best it can to minimize civilian deaths in Gaza and that's really the best Israel can do. [editline]6th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=joost1120;52440365]Same to you. All you're saying is that you can't do anything about terrorists, except bomb them, giving the population even more reason to hate you.[/QUOTE] We really cant do much more than bomb and carry out targeted assassinations. Israel is developing technology to take out the terror tunnels that Hamas digs but other than that, any further action requires a full scale invasion that is a huge deal.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52440365]Same to you. All you're saying is that you can't do anything about terrorists, except bomb them, giving the population even more reason to hate you.[/QUOTE] If you can't offer an alternative that doesn't involve taking huge risks then buzz off already. Dont think you have the right to tell us what to do with our national security with your brain-dead level of knowledge on the conflict.

[QUOTE=RzDat;52441895]If you can't offer an alternative that doesn't involve taking huge risks then buzz off already. Dont think you have the right to tell us what to do with our national security with your brain-dead level of knowledge on the conflict.[/QUOTE] Ad-hominem much. But please, do continue killing civilians and acting as if they all deserve it. 9500 dead Palestinians and in the end you have no proof of whether they were terrorists or civilians.

[QUOTE=RzDat;52441895]If you can't offer an alternative that doesn't involve taking huge risks then buzz off already. Dont think you have the right to tell us what to do with our national security with your brain-dead level of knowledge on the conflict.[/QUOTE] the longer Israel keeps acting this way towards people who are pretty much almost always on the receiving end of bombings and having their land annexed and broken up, they won't engender sympathy from the rest of the world when a bigger bully comes along

[QUOTE=RzDat;52441895]If you can't offer an alternative that doesn't involve taking huge risks then buzz off already. Dont think you have the right to tell us what to do with our national security with your brain-dead level of knowledge on the conflict.[/QUOTE] Easy: Actually take care of the people living in area C. Israel has put off 20+ years of obligations to the people living there and has fostered ill will as a result. If you spent even a third of the time and money on the Palestinians living there as you did settlers, or even let international humanitarian groups fund projects for the Palestinians like you do currently for Israeli settlers, I'm pretty sure you'd make major headway on diffusing tensions. Feel free to keep defending yourself from rockets and terrorist threats, but don't deflect from or apologize for your government escalating tensions by pulling the sort of bullshit described in the OP.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52439458]Hamas as an organization isn't sensible, but people join them because houses in their neighbourhood are being bombed. I don't know how you can't understand this, but if someone bombs your town, you're not going to like them.[/quote] You're still not understanding that Hamas wasn't founded because people houses got bombed by Israel. They were founded for the purpose of exterminating the Jews in Israel. The people who join up because they lost a loved one to Israel and only want to stop the bombings and not annihilate them are an extreme minority. You don't go and join a terrorist group because your house got bombed, then continue to fire rockets into Israel and get more houses bombed. [QUOTE=joost1120;52439458] And that is relevant how? I talked about assassination of ISIS leaders not because of the assassination, but because it's an example of troops in a hostile base performing objectives without casualties.[/quote] Assassinating [i]individuals[/i] and recovering weaponry are 2 different ball games. How is this hard to understand? One involves a small group shooting a guy and then leaving, the other involves shooting a lot of guys, sending in trucks to pick up the weapons, then shooting a lot more guys on the way out. And if you suggest that they just blow up the rockets, thats the same difference as bombing them only with an extreme risk to your own troops. [QUOTE=joost1120;52439458] So why don't you just drop a nuclear bomb on Palestine?[/QUOTE] I like how we only deal in absolutes here. It's either don't bomb them or just drop nukes on them. Whats wrong with you? [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=joost1120;52440153]Well I'm just trying to come up with ideas. Sure seems better than continuing to massacre civilians in the off chance of killing a terrorist. And even if only civilians die, it doesn't matter. They're all terrorists anyway.[/QUOTE] Quit being dramatic. Despite Israel's constant bombing of civilian areas, their casualty rate for civilians is extremely low. They're not "massacring" them like you claim. [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=joost1120;52442130]Ad-hominem much. But please, do continue killing civilians and acting as if they all deserve it. 9500 dead Palestinians and in the end you have no proof of whether they were terrorists or civilians.[/QUOTE] 9,500 dead over 10 years as opposed to the US' 100,000-1,000,000 in half the time in Iraq. Quit acting like Israel is genocidal when they're actually extremely cautious. They've designed their bombs and protocols around not killing civilians. Your suggestions for alternatives are complete crap. [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52440311]just try and imagine what it would be like to live in an area where the people opposing your existance say things like "we could wipe them out if we wanted to" [/QUOTE] Quit bringing this shit up. Svinnik was not saying "we can wipe them out if we wanted to" as a response to the violence in Gaza. He was saying that to the people who were claiming Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinian people. He's not being a dick, he's pointing out facts.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52442713]You're still not understanding that Hamas wasn't founded because people houses got bombed by Israel. They were founded for the purpose of exterminating the Jews in Israel. The people who join up because they lost a loved one to Israel and only want to stop the bombings and not annihilate them are an extreme minority. You don't go and join a terrorist group because your house got bombed, then continue to fire rockets into Israel and get more houses bombed. Assassinating [i]individuals[/i] and recovering weaponry are 2 different ball games. How is this hard to understand? One involves a small group shooting a guy and then leaving, the other involves shooting a lot of guys, sending in trucks to pick up the weapons, then shooting a lot more guys on the way out. And if you suggest that they just blow up the rockets, thats the same difference as bombing them only with an extreme risk to your own troops. I like how we only deal in absolutes here. It's either don't bomb them or just drop nukes on them. Whats wrong with you? [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] Quit being dramatic. Despite Israel's constant bombing of civilian areas, their casualty rate for civilians is extremely low. They're not "massacring" them like you claim. [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] 9,500 dead over 10 years as opposed to the US' 100,000-1,000,000 in half the time in Iraq. Quit acting like Israel is genocidal when they're actually extremely cautious. They've designed their bombs and protocols around not killing civilians. Your suggestions for alternatives are complete crap. [editline]7th July 2017[/editline] Quit bringing this shit up. Svinnik was not saying "we can wipe them out if we wanted to" as a response to the violence in Gaza. He was saying that to the people who were claiming Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinian people. He's not being a dick, he's pointing out facts.[/QUOTE] This argument is pointless. I can't convince you that Palestinian civilians dying isn't right. You can't convince me bombing towns to take out militants shootings rockets, who probably already left hours ago, is right.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52443453]This argument is pointless. I can't convince you that Palestinian civilians dying isn't right. You can't convince me bombing towns to take out militants shootings rockets, who probably already left hours ago, is right.[/QUOTE] Civilian deaths of any kind isn't right, ever. Never has and never will be, but it's the reality of war. Never has there been a war waged, and never will there be, where civilians weren't killed or maimed in the fighting. Israel is put into the position where it must respond with force against those that are attacking them. It's a shitty deal but Hamas hides themselves and their munitions behind a civilian populous, but you can't expect Israel to let it's own population get killed or maimed and them not do anything about it. Put yourselves in their shoes; would you be ok with Germany lobbing missiles over your border and your country doing nothing to respond? Is it not OK to fight back because your enemy hides behind civilians? Israel didn't start the war against the Hamas, it was the Hamas' choice to start fighting Israel and use cowardly tactics to avoid facing Israel in actual warfare. It's a shitty deal but it's the reality of modern warfare; 2 countries don't fight each other anymore, it's always one country against a group which uses human shields as a means of survival. You can't just ignore it because your enemy are such scumbags that they use women and children to guard themselves.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52443506]Civilian deaths of any kind isn't right, ever. Never has and never will be, but it's the reality of war. Never has there been a war waged, and never will there be, where civilians weren't killed or maimed in the fighting. Israel is put into the position where it must respond with force against those that are attacking them. It's a shitty deal but Hamas hides themselves and their munitions behind a civilian populous, but you can't expect Israel to let it's own population get killed or maimed and them not do anything about it. Put yourselves in their shoes; would you be ok with Germany lobbing missiles over your border and your country doing nothing to respond? Is it not OK to fight back because your enemy hides behind civilians? Israel didn't start the war against the Hamas, it was the Hamas' choice to start fighting Israel and use cowardly tactics to avoid facing Israel in actual warfare. It's a shitty deal but it's the reality of modern warfare; 2 countries don't fight each other anymore, it's always one country against a group which uses human shields as a means of survival. You can't just ignore it because your enemy are such scumbags that they use women and children to guard themselves.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between not bombing towns and not responding. Israel has a significantly stronger military force than Palestine/Hamas does. They could literally roll up with an APC and a flatbed, and search the buildings for arms. They could blow them up in a nearby field and capture the terrorists without any problem. This method is probably even a lot cheaper than the smart bombs used normally. I'm not really supporting Hamas, but Israel did sort of start the war by occupying large parts of their country.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52443614]They could literally roll up with an APC and a flatbed, and search the buildings for arms..[/QUOTE] This would result in dead soldiers. Israel's army is small despite its technological strength, and it's getting smaller too as less and less people get conscripted to it. The IDF is very averse to putting ground troops in any hostile territory, especially a highly entrenched urban one. Whether this is a justifiable explanation I don't know, but there you go. If Gaza wasn't a dangerous place, I'm sure Israel would've steamrolled it by now.

[QUOTE=Bertie;52443650]This would result in dead soldiers. Israel's army is small despite its technological strength, and it's getting smaller too as less and less people get conscripted to it. The IDF is very averse to putting ground troops in any hostile territory, especially a highly entrenched urban one. Whether this is a justifiable explanation I don't know, but there you go. If Gaza wasn't a dangerous place, I'm sure Israel would've steamrolled it by now.[/QUOTE] Israel's army is by no means small. It has as much personnel as Germany's army, with a larger reserve.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Israel is creating their own enemy IMO. They treat Palestinians like shit to the point they elect an extremist government. Then Israel goes "AHA! See we knew they were no good!" and uses it as an excuse to treat them EVEN WORSE. Their neglect and hostility is cultivating animosity and hatred. Instead of healing the rift it instead deepens it. That's what it looks like to me anyway.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52443614]There's a difference between not bombing towns and not responding. Israel has a significantly stronger military force than Palestine/Hamas does. They could literally roll up with an APC and a flatbed, and search the buildings for arms. They could blow them up in a nearby field and capture the terrorists without any problem. This method is probably even a lot cheaper than the smart bombs used normally. I'm not really supporting Hamas, but Israel did sort of start the war by occupying large parts of their country.[/QUOTE] bruh By your logic, why didn't the US in Afganistan just go into towns occupied by the Taliban, destroy their weapons, and then just leave? Their army is bigger than Israels.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;52442627]Easy: Actually take care of the people living in area C. Israel has put off 20+ years of obligations to the people living there and has fostered ill will as a result. If you spent even a third of the time and money on the Palestinians living there as you did settlers, or even let international humanitarian groups fund projects for the Palestinians like you do currently for Israeli settlers, I'm pretty sure you'd make major headway on diffusing tensions. Feel free to keep defending yourself from rockets and terrorist threats, but don't deflect from or apologize for your government escalating tensions by pulling the sort of bullshit described in the OP.[/QUOTE] Are you talking about the West Bank? Because even if our government did take care of Palestinians living in area C, it wont do shit to stop the tunnels and rockets. Now dont get me wrong, im all for funding C areas, but you're mixing two different areas: West Bank is controlled by the Palestinian Authority while Gaza is controlled by Hamas. Both the PA and Hamas hate each other, so even if we took care of Area C, Hamas won't stop building tunnels and launching rockets. Look, as much as you think i'm an apologist for the government then don't. I hate Bibi and his hard-on for funding illegal squatters who do nothing but provoke local Palestinians while expecting the army to protect them. How do i know this? I served this year near Hebron breaking fights between settlers and arabs, and believe me there were a few times i had to arrest a few settlers who were out of control. Of course i hate when fat politicians who think they're hot shit throw orders like this and let all of the hate and anger get thrown at us the soldiers to take. The lack of treatment of Palestinians in Area C is corrct and worrying, its the main problem of this right wing government who rathers wage hatred than peace and quiet, but get this straight: [b]treating palestinians in the west bank better will NOT improve the politics in Gaza[/b] I'm talking from experience: lots of Palestinians from the local villages of the west bank expressed to me their strong dislike for Hamas and were criticizing the IDF for letting them get elected in the first place. Before you think i'm some bogeyman to them then you'll be surprised by the kind of relationship the locals have with some soldiers. I personally talked with them openly (about work, women, places etc) and even they expressed their personal views about the arab world and the hypocrisy of the Palestinian government and Hamas. This isn't so black and white as you think, even if we did start to treat Palestinians in the West Bank better, Gaza will remain the same story with tunnels and rockets. I'm telling you this because you're mixing up facts. The West Bank and Gaza are two different stories, and the fact that the Palestinian people are massively divided in terms of ideology, improving the situation in the West Bank won't change a thing in Gaza. Now of course you can ignore my knowledge and opinions and keep calling me a psychotic murderer and an apologist to the Israeli government, but in the end, i'm the one who lived in this place all of my life and currently dedicating my soul and strength for keeping this country safe. I hate the fact that Palestinians are caught between us and two ruling bodies who dont give two shits about them and it really sucks, believe me. If you look back 70 years back, the ideology of the Palestinian leaders remained hostile and anti-peace while Israel had a few liberal and left wing governments who gave back land for peace, only to be met with more violence before being replaced with right wing parties.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52443755]bruh By your logic, why didn't the US in Afganistan just go into towns occupied by the Taliban, destroy their weapons, and then just leave? Their army is bigger than Israels.[/QUOTE] The IDF has twice as many soldiers as the US ever deployed to Afghanistan. The IDF also has the advantage of knowing exactly where to search for those rockets. Something has to change with the way Israel treats Palestine. Just bombing terrorist and civilian alike only destabilizes the area even further. As if occupying the country wasn't enough.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52443804]The IDF has twice as many soldiers as the US ever deployed to Afghanistan. The IDF also has the advantage of knowing exactly where to search for those rockets. Something has to change with the way Israel treats Palestine. Just bombing terrorist and civilian alike only destabilizes the area even further. As if occupying the country wasn't enough.[/QUOTE] Gaza isn't controlled by us, setting foot there can trigger a full-scale war. Get that through your thick skull already.

[QUOTE=RzDat;52443815]Gaza isn't controlled by us, setting foot there can trigger a full-scale war. Get that through your thick skull already.[/QUOTE] What's stopping Israel from doing it again? The UN and many governments still consider the Gaza strip to be occupied by Israel.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52443831]What's stopping Israel from doing it again? The UN and many governments still consider the Gaza strip to be occupied by Israel.[/QUOTE] The Gaza strip is [I]blockaded[/I] by Israel, not [I]occupied[/I]. Huge difference. Israel controls what materials get into the Gaza strip via the 2 crossings they have into Gaza and Egypt controls what gets into Gaza with their crossing. Israel does not want a full scale war again because it's expensive, it costs the country a ton of work hours, and it's just a headache for everyone involved.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52443851]The Gaza strip is [I]blockaded[/I] by Israel, not [I]occupied[/I]. Huge difference. Israel controls what materials get into the Gaza strip via the 2 crossings they have into Gaza and Egypt controls what gets into Gaza with their crossing. Israel does not want a full scale war again because it's expensive, it costs the country a ton of work hours, and it's just a headache for everyone involved.[/QUOTE] Great that Israel itself thinks it's disengaged from the Gaza strip, but the UN and a lot of governments still consider it occupied.

[QUOTE=RzDat;52443768]Are you talking about the West Bank? Because even if our government did take care of Palestinians living in area C, it wont do shit to stop the tunnels and rockets. Now dont get me wrong, im all for funding C areas, but you're mixing two different areas: West Bank is controlled by the Palestinian Authority while Gaza is controlled by Hamas. Both the PA and Hamas hate each other, so even if we took care of Area C, Hamas won't stop building tunnels and launching rockets. Look, as much as you think i'm an apologist for the government then don't. I hate Bibi and his hard-on for funding illegal squatters who do nothing but provoke local Palestinians while expecting the army to protect them. How do i know this? I served this year near Hebron breaking fights between settlers and arabs, and believe me there were a few times i had to arrest a few settlers who were out of control. Of course i hate when fat politicians who think they're hot shit throw orders like this and let all of the hate and anger get thrown at us the soldiers to take. The lack of treatment of Palestinians in Area C is corrct and worrying, its the main problem of this right wing government who rathers wage hatred than peace and quiet, but get this straight: [b]treating palestinians in the west bank better will NOT improve the politics in Gaza[/b] I'm talking from experience: lots of Palestinians from the local villages of the west bank expressed to me their strong dislike for Hamas and were criticizing the IDF for letting them get elected in the first place. Before you think i'm some bogeyman to them then you'll be surprised by the kind of relationship the locals have with some soldiers. I personally talked with them openly (about work, women, places etc) and even they expressed their personal views about the arab world and the hypocrisy of the Palestinian government and Hamas. This isn't so black and white as you think, even if we did start to treat Palestinians in the West Bank better, Gaza will remain the same story with tunnels and rockets. I'm telling you this because you're mixing up facts. The West Bank and Gaza are two different stories, and the fact that the Palestinian people are massively divided in terms of ideology, improving the situation in the West Bank won't change a thing in Gaza. Now of course you can ignore my knowledge and opinions and keep calling me a psychotic murderer and an apologist to the Israeli government, but in the end, i'm the one who lived in this place all of my life and currently dedicating my soul and strength for keeping this country safe. I hate the fact that Palestinians are caught between us and two ruling bodies who dont give two shits about them and it really sucks, believe me. If you look back 70 years back, the ideology of the Palestinian leaders remained hostile and anti-peace while Israel had a few liberal and left wing governments who gave back land for peace, only to be met with more violence before being replaced with right wing parties.[/QUOTE] Ill drop this argument for now, and ill say I was a bit quick in judging you, even if we have some differing opinions on the subject.