• Texas school district arms teachers and posts warning signs
    90 replies, posted
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45907804]Except Police enforce the law and require a firearm in case someone goes ballistic on them. Teachers enforce class room law but they teach, they shouldn't have to be getting a firearm, that's what the sad bit is.[/QUOTE] Solving all issues that lead to crime would make armed police needless. It's sad that we have to focus on killing people instead of fixing the real issues.
The solution is always to inject more guns
While I think it's truly sad that this is necessary, it's a good measure to take, and will hopefully save lives.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45908323]but why doesn't this apply to all citizens as well? there is literally [B]NO[/B] reason not to in order for me to own the guns i own i actually need to pass a safety course, i have to prove what i need it for, and it's to be locked up when it's not used in addition there will soon probably be implemented a requirement for a doctor's statement in order to get cleared to buy one as well why is this just a big "omg noooo" for american gun owners? (i'm from norway)[/QUOTE] Dunno, I guess they're afraid that it'll go further than just firearm control and start banning Firearms. But I think we definitely need a little more control, kind of like you said, why do you need it, heres how to use it and be safe, and it has to be locked up when not in use. Reminds of friend of a friend of mine who left his loaded pistol on the floor of his car with the door unlocked, and when he came back later to get it and it was gone.
Am I the only one who thinks that school shootings wouldn't be even half as common as they are if news media didn't do a week-long fearmongering parade every time one happened? Every time some kid goes nutter butters and shoots their classmates they are made into a villain, and a household name. On a more related note, although a bit hardcore this seems to be a good safety measure and will likely prevent such incidents from ever being attempted.
So what do we do when schools are in danger of people with easily accessible guns shooting up the place? Add more guns!
When was the last shooting? It's been so long I can't remember when the last one happened.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45907485]America sure is going down the shitter[/QUOTE] And Sweden is on track to be a 3rd world country by 2030. Your point?
[video=youtube;EBpuLlw4Xjs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBpuLlw4Xjs[/video] Skip to 5:30.
[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;45908323]but why doesn't this apply to all citizens as well? there is literally [B]NO[/B] reason not to in order for me to own the guns i own i actually need to pass a safety course, i have to prove what i need it for, and it's to be locked up when it's not used in addition there will soon probably be implemented a requirement for a doctor's statement in order to get cleared to buy one as well why is this just a big "omg noooo" for american gun owners? (i'm from norway)[/QUOTE] EXACTLY! It's like I don't understand why we don't require IDs to vote. There is literally NO reason not to! The answer: Both voting and firearm ownership are both constitutional RIGHTS, and you can't impose on those rights without due process.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;45907847]Statistically speaking, if their guns every get used, it will probably be against a student. The chance of an outsider coming in to randomly shoot up a school is vanishingly small compared to student-perpetrated shootings. So it also carries the implicit message "We are prepared to shoot and kill you if we think you're going to try anything". What a wonderful learning environment![/QUOTE] It's almost as if you completely missed the [i]second sentence[/i] of the article that states "must obtain a license to carry it, pass a psychological evaluation and get training in how to use the weapon."
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45907485]America sure is going down the shitter[/QUOTE] Ever since 9/11 it's just been a downward spiral.
One thing for sure, that's a hell of a deterrent for would-be shooters.
I live about 35 minutes from Argyle. This happened like back in January. My old high school is considering this policy as well. I don't know if I would totally be against it either since the school I went to was where all the kids who got kicked out of other districts ended up. [URL="http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20140122-argyle-isd-to-let-some-campus-employees-carry-guns-to-deter-or-stop-any-attack.ece"]http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20140122-argyle-isd-to-let-some-campus-employees-carry-guns-to-deter-or-stop-any-attack.ece[/URL]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45915845]What? Do you have any statistics to back that up? At all? I severely doubt that a study has been done on the "relationship between student deaths by handgun and teachers carrying".[/QUOTE] That isn't what he was implying. Like, at all. I know you're hard for gun rights, but at least show some restraint. School shootings, by and large, are perpetrated by students, usually of the school being attacked. By that fact alone, it's pretty safe to say that statistically, when a teacher has to use their gun, it will be to shoot a student of the school. There may be no studies for it, but there are statistics for the shootings, and if these guns are going to be used for "protection", these statistics are important. The fact that anybody considers this a remotely decent answer to "how do we stop shooters", is frankly concerning. There is something awfully wrong with the society of the area if, rather than try and tackle the problem, they just implement reactionary measures.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45915954]It's a pretty safe bet that if a student brings a gun to school where the teachers are carrying, he's going to be shot, yes. But isn't that the point of such regulations in the first place? You know, i'm perfectly ok with a student being afraid to bring a weapon to school, in fact, that's exactly how it should be in the first place.[/QUOTE] Control through fear doesn't work. A shooter usually dies at the end of their spree. What does them being scared they might get shot do to stop them? They clearly are prepared for death, with the fact they are willing to shoot others, and sometimes take their own lives. Fear can be overridden, if they are broken enough to think shooting other students is the way to go, they can probably suppress fear. It's hard to say exactly why they keep shooting schools up, as most of them die. But I'm fairly sure body count isn't the target. Retribution possibly? Terror? Infamy? These are all much more understandable. In which case, them dying quicker means little to the shooter.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45916005]It means a lot to the other students though. The difference between an armed teacher and an unarmed teacher could be measured in other students lives; though that claim is pretty hard to back up, as not many districts in the past have ever allowed CCW. Ultimately the only way to stop school shooters is to understand why they do it and rectify the situation that way. But in the mean time, making sure they kill as few people as possible is an acceptable stop gap.[/QUOTE] True, it might make the other students feel a bit more secure temporarily. In practice how well will this work I wonder? Shooters hit suddenly and hard, they're likely to either injure or kill someone before the teachers are even aware of where the shooter is.
i think that i wouldn't even put my kids in public school if i knew that guns were there
[QUOTE=JoelDJr;45911427]When was the last shooting? It's been so long I can't remember when the last one happened.[/QUOTE] This is a clear indicator that this is an issue of the past and that there is no way it can ever happen again.
Only in paranoid america the answer to too many guns is even more guns
[QUOTE=hexpunK;45916041]True, it might make the other students feel a bit more secure temporarily.[/QUOTE] No, it might make them feel a bit less [i]dead[/i] if a teacher can stop a shooter before he starts racking up the body count. At most, maybe it'll be a deterrent that he might be remembered as some asshole with a gun rather than the villain who killed a bunch of people, but fundamentally it's about being able to respond to the threat rather than watch people die, helplessly, until the police arrive.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45907486]Yes, lets do anything to stop shooting rather than guarantee people won't start then.[/QUOTE] JAYWALKERS SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WATCH BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD BEFORE CROSSING. We should teach drivers not to hit pedestrians.
[QUOTE=download;45907836]Well, lets put it this way: Scenario 1: A teacher snaps, they are unarmed at school, they go home, grab a gun and because they've snapped they don't care about the 'no guns in school rule' and shoot up the place. Scenario 2: A teacher snaps, they're armed, they shoot up a school, they get put down by other teachers. Scenario two will on average have less deaths than scenario one.[/QUOTE] That's not true in any way. There's multiple things that could go wrong. Most of these people have likely never aimed a gun at any human being, and this is someone they likely know shooting here. It's likely they'll be very nervous and when that happens many things can go wrong. It's a crowded school with multiple people with guns. You honestly believe there will be no friendly fire or missed shots going through a wall hitting some poor student hiding from shots? How will cops know who is the shooter and who is shooting the shooter?
[QUOTE=catbarf;45916506]No, it might make them feel a bit less [i]dead[/i] if a teacher can stop a shooter before he starts racking up the body count. At most, maybe it'll be a deterrent that he might be remembered as some asshole with a gun rather than the villain who killed a bunch of people, but fundamentally it's about being able to respond to the threat rather than watch people die, helplessly, until the police arrive.[/QUOTE] Taking that in america school shootings are a recurring event caused by values and culture that are quite hard or impossible to change, I can see how ramping up the security in this case can be a necessary action, but I think that simply arming teachers and hoping for he best isn't really gonna change much, if anything it's gonna make teachers more of a target.
[QUOTE=Soupernoob;45911541][video=youtube;EBpuLlw4Xjs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBpuLlw4Xjs[/video] Skip to 5:30.[/QUOTE] Yes, let's use [B]comedians[/B] to form our opinions, this is a good idea
Feels kinda off a start to a Dystopian future where there are armed guards and "obey your government signs" everywhere. "A good student is a obeying student, obey your superior and no harm will come to you", fuck yeah murica. This will surely be used in the future to "protect" your student from evil thoughts off free speech and communism!
[QUOTE=Silber;45916433]Only in paranoid america the answer to too many guns is even more guns[/QUOTE] Isn't every street in Brazil identical to and as dangerous as a Detroit crack slum? Wow being a bigot is way easier than I thought!
[QUOTE=BarnacleDrive;45907474]I sure as shit hope they're following safety procedures on locking the guns away because I can see high school kids getting a kick out of trying to find their teachers' gun.[/QUOTE] The teachers have their guns on their person, that's the idea behind concealed-carry. Chances are it's a personal firearm, and they take it home at the end of the day. The teacher's not likely to leave the gun lying about the classroom when they're meant to be carrying it on their person. And the kids? They know where the gun is, on the teacher.
[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45907486]Yes, lets do anything to stop shooting rather than guarantee people won't start then.[/QUOTE] That's a twenty or so year process that I can already see being started. This is a solution for now and as long as there are safety precautions and the staff is trained, I'm fine with this.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;45916950]Yes, let's use [B]comedians[/B] to form our opinions, this is a good idea[/QUOTE] I've seen people use George Carlin arguments in debates on this forum and form opinions or use Comedians to entrench their viewpoint, why not?
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